Is Snowden a traitor or a public servant?

I've had several friends and family members from that part of the world in that time frame.The stories they did tell ( and they mostly didn't talk about it) are just unreal.Once a government is powerful enough and corrupt enough,you stand no chance.When your neighbor is told to choose between his family or yours....
 
I don't see what all the hoopla is about. If the government wants to track people, why don't they just imprint an identification on the inside of our forearm? Its for our safety after all.
 
I hate to even think this.... but could this be a false flag event?

It has drawn attention away from all the other events. hmmmmm.

Yes, you are correct.

I am having a helluva time finding out who will be the next judge on Dancing with the Stars......:(


This whole thing went QUIET. And, fast. Seems there were a LOT of repubs who jumped in and cheerleadered for the program, in the name of national security.

What this means is: "When we are in office, we want to play with this toy too!"................ :rolleyes::mad:
 
the only traitor he is , is to the muslim trying to take over our country. and I will probly be banned for my statement, but I can only take so much.
 
All part of the Patriot Act.....You do like and believe in the Patriot Act don't you?:rolleyes:


WuzzFuzz

After all, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about...:rolleyes:

They were discussing this on my favorite morning radio show this AM. I was a bit surprised that this was the stance taken by a pretty conservative guy.

IMO the "If you have nothing to hide..." mentality has helped get us where we are today...
 
He has the bollocks to say what many others thought...

Funny how most commoners don't think its a big deal, but .gov is pretty spun up.... wonder why?
 
After all, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about...:rolleyes:

They were discussing this on my favorite morning radio show this AM. I was a bit surprised that this was the stance taken by a pretty conservative guy.

IMO the "If you have nothing to hide..." mentality has helped get us where we are today...

Don't confuse Libertarians with Repubs, the party changed with Bush, it became a Progressive, Large Government, Military Complex, the people serve the Government Party.

Run-on sentence I know, call me Faulkner.
 
When I was a teenager in England, I listened to the radio instead of watching TV. One night there was a radio play called Other People's Lives and it really struck home with me. The story was about a Special Branch officer who became obsessed with a guy who just happened to literally bump into a known radical on the streets while that radical was under surveillance. Shortly afterwards in another piece of surveillance a conversation between a group of radicals was half heard and the SB thought they heard the innocent guy's name mentioned.

Things rapidly escalated with the SB bugging the hapless guy's house, having furniture delivered that he did not order and all sorts of dirty tricks. The SB officer became so obsessed that he became unable to separate what was happening in his home from that of his victim. The victim eventually cut his own throat from the pressure, a very well done sound effect I might add, while the SB guy rushed across the street from his bugging lair.

The end result was one innocent guy dead and the SB's career and marriage gone because he put together two VERY flaky pieces of intel and would not let it go. Sound familiar to anybody? What happens when you or a goblin fat finger your phone or an email address and this vast electronic vacuum cleaner grabs it? Now it lands on the desk of somebody looking to make their name and it's off to the races. This stuff needs to stop right now.
 
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The people need to start telling the government, "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about." All the different security and intelligence agencies are just a huge maze of deception and spending dollars that aren't even accountable. This is not party or person specific, it permeats our entire country and it's time to start changing the direction. Every dollar should be accounted for. Some "top secret" project being funded by untold billions, because of "national security" run by paid off generals and politicians, are just lies, lies, and more lies.
 
It doesnt make me happy paying taxs and seeing the IRS workers partying away on millions of our tax dollars, or that charactor sitting in a hot tub on a top floor overlooking vegas drinking champain.
Nothing ever happens in these deals and if it does they are promoted up! To those inside people rideing the wave, money value means absolutly nothing.
 
I think it's time to be impressed that a thread revolving around this subject matter has survived this long:D

I have a problem .... I seem to have misplaced my favorite coffee cup.
Since it would seem the NSA probably knows where it ran off to, perhaps I could ask some help in finding it before my caffeine levels fall to dangerous concentrations.
 
I think it's time to be impressed that a thread revolving around this subject matter has survived this long:D

I have a problem .... I seem to have misplaced my favorite coffee cup.
Since it would seem the NSA probably knows where it ran off to, perhaps I could ask some help in finding it before my caffeine levels fall to dangerous concentrations.

Yup, I'm definitely impressed that this thread has... well, what you said. ;) :D

As far as that coffee cup goes... As soon as the good folks at the NSA are finished collecting a sample of your DNA, I'm sure your cup will just "reappear" on the countertop. :D :eek:
In the mean time, find something else to drink your coffee in - its dangerous to have too much blood in your coffee stream. :D
 
I think it's time to be impressed that a thread revolving around this subject matter has survived this long:D

I think that it's very healthy and very appropriate to discuss this. The issue transcends politics. The issue goes to the very core of the Bill of Rights. Do we, the people, stand secure against unreasonable search and seizure? Are our private lives sacrosanct? Can the government do pretty much whatever it wants in the name of "national security" and ignore the Fourth Amendment? Can the government demand its permission before you can buy a gun, and prescribe the type of gun you may own, and how many you buy - infringements upon the Second Amendment? Can the government monitor communications between members of the press and harass those who criticize the government - a clear violation of the First Amendment? Can the President unilaterally launch a war, when the Constitution gives that authority only to Congress? Can the laws instituted by Congress and signed by the President be ignored, modified, and mocked by the executive branch? Can the executive branch order the summary execution of American citizens at home or abroad without due process of law?

Again - this is NOT politics. It's a fundamental discussion of the Bill of Rights and if those rights have been blatantly trampled or eroded to the point where they have become unrecognizable. It is not a Democrat or Republican issue. It's an issue that goes straight to our hearts, our minds, and our freedoms. These affronts on our Constitution have been going on for years, dating back to the 1860s. And like the proverbial frog being heated gradually by ever hotter and hotter water, our rights may be dead in the water before we awaken to the travesty that has taken place before our very eyes.

NOW is the time to peaceably contact your Representative and Senators to put a stop to these trends and reverse them. The alternatives are not pretty. Make your voices heard, loud and clear.

John
 
I still have very mixed feelings on this. To start with I dont know enough of the story yet. I did work a security job for 35 years and had to have various clearances. On briefings for them they always put the fear of God in us about singing.
First this high tech is a weapon that can be used for defense but also offensevily. All depends on how this tool is used. The thing is, if you have a good goverment that you trust its fine but with a corrupt goverment its awful. When the goverment changes or bad people get access to info we are in trouble. From what I have read so far, snowden hasnt gave out any specfic info, just that we now have a tool that can spy on us. I think most of us suspected that anyway for quite some time. It`s just that all the sudden its confirmed and in our faces!
I never have commited or planned a crime but I dont think I would have ever been dumb enough to send a E-mail or use the phone to talk about it to begin with. I belive most normal people have realised for quite awhile now that there must be possible records of it somewhere. I also would take it as fact and hope the goverment in a national emergency would even use illegal means to get intelligence to stop a tradgity. What am I missing here?
 
I still have very mixed feelings on this. To start with I dont know enough of the story yet. I did work a security job for 35 years and had to have various clearances. On briefings for them they always put the fear of God in us about singing.
First this high tech is a weapon that can be used for defense but also offensevily. All depends on how this tool is used. The thing is, if you have a good goverment that you trust its fine but with a corrupt goverment its awful. When the goverment changes or bad people get access to info we are in trouble. From what I have read so far, snowden hasnt gave out any specfic info, just that we now have a tool that can spy on us. I think most of us suspected that anyway for quite some time. It`s just that all the sudden its confirmed and in our faces!
I never have commited or planned a crime but I dont think I would have ever been dumb enough to send a E-mail or use the phone to talk about it to begin with. I belive most normal people have realised for quite awhile now that there must be possible records of it somewhere. I also would take it as fact and hope the goverment in a national emergency would even use illegal means to get intelligence to stop a tradgity. What am I missing here?

The Constitution gave and Scotus has confirmed several rights.

1. Free Speech--knowing the Gestapo is listening tends to depress this.
2. The right to privacy.
3. The right against illegal search and seizure, Scotus has extended that to include mail, phone etc many times. This can't be done without a warrant and it was.
4. Spying on your citizens, really how can you not get this, it's basic common sense. No one has an issue with warranted wire tapping on suspects with probable cause, but the only people who spy/spied on the entire population till now, were the Nazi's, the Chinese and Communist Russia. Which of those do you endorse?
5. Finally again, have you thought about what you are saying, you endorse the Government being able to choose when to declare exigent circumstances and when to spy at will? Seriously, the are a lot of historical examples and quotes on Government's have unrestrained power, read those.

Most importantly, the SECRET COURT created to monitor this declared it unconstitutional and told them to stop, they refused and ignored court orders. Think about the ramifications of the Court System being rendered moot and no one being able to stop illegal acts by the Government. JMO.
 
I also would take it as fact and hope the goverment in a national emergency would even use illegal means to get intelligence to stop a tradgity. What am I missing here?

I suppose if we take just this incident as a stand alone occurrence, perhaps it could serve to avert a tragedy. However, in this country, probable cause is supposed to be necessary. The order of magnitude cannot be ignored ... that just cause has to be huge such as intercepting one of a series of rogue nukes.

when not taken as a stand alone incident, we have.
DHS with overflowing buckets of ammo, running ominous martial law drills, while being constantly upgraded into something that is better suited for combat than law enforcement roles.

IRS, and probably other services being used to intimidate and silence groups.

The never ending run on our second amendment rights.

harassment of the press

cover ups on parade, to include incidents where lives were lost.

Attacks on religious freedom.

Where i'm most conflicted is whether we are headed for trouble ... or already in it
 
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