Is the .380 cartridge underpowered?

[ChattanoogaPhil]

All kidding aside--here's how my thought process went when comparing the LCP I was thinking of getting, to the Glock 26 I wound up with

When I purchased my LCP it was within the context of a small pocket gun that I would drop in the pocket of my blue jeans in the morning and leave it there unnoticed till bedtime. Comparisons were like the P-3AT and TCP. The 26 nor any other gun in it's size and weight class were even remotely a consideration for that role. For my purposes, it would be comparing shotguns to rifles for duck hunting.

 

[44wheelman]

What I've learned from this thread:

#1 The least effective caliber pocket gun for you...depends on the size of your pockets

#2 With a .380, I can shoot a skinny man wearing a T shirt, but not a fat guy on drugs in a leather jacket.

#3 "...the more bullet wounds a patient had the more likely the patient was going to die..."

#4 I'm better off with a sharp stick than a .32

But seriously...

One problem with these little pocket guns is, they become increasingly difficult to shoot acurately the smaller they get. Keeping my Kel Tec P32 in the black at 7 yds is not easy, I can't imagine shooting it accurately under duress. But that is my summer carry; either in my cargo shorts pocket, or clipped inside the waistband of my athletic shorts.

 

[T2C]

Two of those JHP failures were against a skull. Several cases had skulls penetrated by FMJs.

What were the makers of the .380 JHP rounds that failed to penetrate the skull? Do you know the makers of the firearms or the barrel lengths of the handguns that were involved in these shooting incidents?

Nothing is perfect as you have pointed out. One of our Crime Scene Investigators was not impressed with the .45 ACP when a subject was shot with a full size 1911 and 230g FMJ that did not penetrate the skull.

 

[apollo99]

Not a big fan on .380 due to the cost of the loaded ammo and it's scarcity. While a lot of pistols chambered in it are attractive and compact, I am finding more and more 9MM pistols to be going in that same direction. The ballistics on a .380 are lacking as compared to a .38 spl+P and 9mm as well, so I would say no for me.

 

[JayFramer]

The Makarov was used a service pistol for 50 years and even today. It's 9x18mm round is barely more powerful than a .380 and is often called "the Russian .380" because of this. I think it's doable as a fighting round provided good shot placements.

 

[gman51]

I don't care what caliber it is because shot placement basically evens them all out.
How many people have had full mags of 9mm not stop the BG? Same with most any caliber while the ones with a 4 prefix might do much better.
The one shot stop is almost a myth when it comes down to real life scenarios. Real life isn't like in the movies but that's all people see so they believe it.

 

[Wise_A]

When I purchased my LCP it was within the context of a small pocket gun that I would drop in the pocket of my blue jeans in the morning and leave it there unnoticed till bedtime. Comparisons were like the P-3AT and TCP. The 26 nor any other gun in it's size and weight class were even remotely a consideration for that role. For my purposes, it would be comparing shotguns to rifles for duck hunting.

I do the same thing, except with a holster and the 26. I'm not a huge guy.

 

[ruger 22]

In over 40 years carrying my BHP with a Model 36 backup I have heard of more killed with a 22lr than any of the calibres mentioned. Having been shot myself, the first critical seconds referenced are used by the one shot to figure out just what happened. The stopping of the person is mainly his inertia since when he finds he was hit, the fight spirit rapidly goes out of him. So I would say that the 380 can be very effective if it penetrates well and is accurately shot in a reliable pistol.

 

[tops]

Nothing is perfect as you have pointed out. One of our Crime Scene Investigators was not impressed with the .45 ACP when a subject was shot with a full size 1911 and 230g FMJ that did not penetrate the skull.

Did the subject complain of a headache? Larry

 

[mrmike7189]

I've been watching the tv show"homicide hunter" it is about a homicide detective in Colorado springs,CO who solved over 400 cases in his career in law enforcement. you'd be surprised how many dead bodies on that show were killed with 380 's.....there are at least 8 seasons of this show, approximatelt 200 episodes on netflix right now....watch it and see. i was amazed. it shows how popular this round is and has been for a while

 

[franzas]

I've carried a .380 backup gun and occasionally as a concealed carry gun when the threat situation was low but I wanted to carry something small. I have since retired the 380 PPKs and replaced with a 9mm Ruger LC9s which gives me a similar sized but lighter package with a better round.

I've only had to use a .380 one time in a threat situation and it fared quite well with Federal Hydra-Shoks.

Did the hollow-point expand?
How many follow-up shots were required?
Was overpenetration an issue?
How many non-combatant snakes were injured in the shooting?

These are questions you need to ask before carrying a .380 against snakes. Snake lives matter y'all.

 

[moosedog]

As we downsize our carry gun for ease of carry, we get less rounds and the caliber naturally gets smaller, and thus, weaker. I've seen people shot with a lot of different calibers and bullet placement is king.
Since I retired I carry a LCP in 380 except if I am going near Detroit or some other danger zone.
The advancements in bullet design have certainly helped with all calibers and I prefer the 380 Gold Dots.
Not to worry about accuracy at 7 yards / 21 feet, most shootings rarely are at that long of a distance and will simply be point and shoot while you have an adrenaline dump.
Bottom line. Carry the biggest caliber with the most round capacity that you have confidence in, can carry comfortably and get to quickly.

 

[Erich]

What were the makers of the .380 JHP rounds that failed to penetrate the skull? Do you know the makers of the firearms or the barrel lengths of the handguns that were involved in these shooting incidents?

Nothing is perfect as you have pointed out. One of our Crime Scene Investigators was not impressed with the .45 ACP when a subject was shot with a full size 1911 and 230g FMJ that did not penetrate the skull.

I've seen a case in which a .45 Hydra-Shok zipped around the outside of the skull.

Speaking of Hydra-Shoks, two of the inadequately penetrating .380 JHPs were those. The other was a Golden Saber from a Lorcin. I'd have to look up what the Federals came out of - and I have a lot to do today, so I doubt that's going to happen.

Here's the deal with all of these thread: The point is to pick a tool that makes you feel comfortable it'll work as needed in virtually every situation where you might need it. We don't know what you're doing or what you need - we're just a bunch of old guys jawing over coffee. You're the only one whose opinion matters.

Is the .380 cartridge underpowered? Depends on why you need it.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Consider what the author of that article(Greg Ellifritz) had to say about .380 ACP and the guns that fire it... Is the .380 ACP an Adequate Caliber for Defensive Use? | Active Response Training

That's a good article, thanks.

When looking at data collected from actual shootings (ALHSP linked earlier) there's no significant difference in incapacitation rates among common carry calibers 380ACP, 38spcl, 9mm and 45ACP. When gelatin bad guys, expert-think and 'what if' scenarios are the measure then the 380ACP does not fare as well. That's pretty much consistent among most caliber analysis I've seen and what makes these subjects such excellent fodder for Forum discussion.

I think it's fair to say that small frame autoloaders can be difficult for some shooters to reliably operate. That said, my LCP has never had a malfunction or stoppage of any kind even with wet hands. Unless I have any personal experience to the contrary it's not an issue for me. That said, at practice ranges I've seen countless others struggle with reliability shooting larger framed autoloaders of larger caliber than 380ACP. No matter what carry gun, reliability in the shooter's hands is key.

 

[dben002]

A 380 when used as intended (to save your life at close range - 5 to 7 yards) IMHO is most adequate with the proper ammo. Alternating rounds of defense hollow points and FMJ at that range will serve it's purpose in an emergency. I would trust it for that purpose. Outside of 10 yards I would prefer a higher caliber round but the 380 has it's place.

 

[BAM-BAM]

"Is the .380 cartridge underpowered?"

Been following and contributed to this thread early on...........

What pops into my head every time I see the thread Title is.....LOL

"YES;when compared to a cartridge that starts with a "5" and is fired from a belt fed M-2!!!!!"

IMHO......Eric's post above is as close to a correct answer to the OP's question as you can get!

 

[kbm6893]

It sounds as if you've decided already.

By your standards, I would say most handgun rounds are ineffective.

I personally would prefer not to have that energy dumped in me once, let alone a few times.

I think the .380 is an effective round, but slowly becoming obsolete due to the size of the current 9mm models.

I have a Bidyguard .380. When somebody makes a 9MM that small, i will buy one. I carry a Ruger LC9-S too. Small gun, but the Bodyguard disappears in a pocket. The Ruger does not.

 

[CATI1835]

Here's the deal with all of these thread: The point is to pick a tool that makes you feel comfortable it'll work as needed in virtually every situation where you might need it. We don't know what you're doing or what you need - we're just a bunch of old guys jawing over coffee. You're the only one whose opinion matters.

+++ What he said.

 

[petepeterson]

I have a Bidyguard .380. When somebody makes a 9MM that small, i will buy one. I carry a Ruger LC9-S too. Small gun, but the Bodyguard disappears in a pocket. The Ruger does not.

I completely agree. Note I said "slowly", but not yet. I carry a Kel-Tec quite a bit throughout the year. But to me, that's the .380's last bastion- the BG sized pistols. Hard to justify a PPK/Beretta 84-sized pistol unless you like the "cool" factor, or you don't want to buy another pistol.

I was giving a middle of the road opinion. If it were yes or no, I would say yes, the .380 is effective. Based on pretty much nothing.

 

[Thomasino]

It all depends on how you look at it. Yes it is less of a round than a 45 ACP, but if an individual has a 45 ACP carry gun and they often times refuse to carry it because it's too heavy or too hard to conceal, well size does not matter in that case. What good is a 45 ACP sitting in your gun safe at home and not on your hip when you need it? You have probably heard this a thousand times before, and that is to carry a gun that you feel comfortable shooting and carrying. I carry a Ruger LCR 38sp+ and sometimes I forget I even have it in my front hip pocket because it's so light and concealable for me. I can load up powder puff rounds for it and I can load up strong self defense rounds with hollow points as well. I personally think a 38 Special revolver is one of the best ways to go for a carry gun.

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