Is the .380 enough?

[oldhilltoper]

Ironically I just watched a video this morning that rated the top 5 cc pistols. since I carry a BG.380 I was curious to what they had to say. The S/W body guard 380 rated in at #3. They mentioned that it wasn't a target pistol and was designed for defense only at close quarters maybe up to 25 feet at most. The top rated (don't shoot me) was listed as the Rugar LCP II new version. BUT they said about the same thing only difference would be in the trigger feel might give you more accuracy. I'm not totally satisfied with mine it seems to snappy for me, but I'm not going to trash it and buy something else just yet.

 

[ladder13]

Is the 380 enough?

Unless you're hunting bear it will suffice

 

[Jim_Sl]

BUT they said about the same thing only difference would be in the trigger feel might give you more accuracy.

I know a lot of people don't like the long trigger pull on the S&W Bodyguard. We hear a lot of complaining about that. It happens to be the pocket pistol I carry when my 40 or 45 just doesn't fit the situation I may be in that day. I personally like the long trigger pull. As it was mentioned, it is not designed to be a target pistol. So it really should not have a 3 lb. trigger pull on it. When I am wearing cargo pants with the larger pockets. I can carry this pistol without a holster or sleeve without any concerns about printing or a light trigger pull. You can bump it, drop it, even jam your hand in your pocket and it won't go off by accident. For this gun to fire you have to deliberately pull that trigger. For me, that is the best pocket pistol that I could have.

I have never picked up the Ruger LCP so I can't speak to that pistol. However if it is anything like the other Rugers I am sure it's a fine pistol.

Jim

 

[Rastoff]

"I don't feel under gunned with my [insert whatever gun here]."

We hear this phrase all the time and it has absolutely no bearing on the subject matter. What a person "feels" about their gun is completely irrelevant. Only what the gun/caliber is capable of is important. You might "feel" fine carrying a .380Auto on that safari, but the elephant will still squash you after you shot it with every round you have.

 

[DaveInHouston]

When I need something seriously small and light I carry a North American Arms 22 Mag with the fold up stock. Not much bigger than a pocket knife and drops right into my pocket. Otherwise I carry everything from a little LCP .380, Glock 43 to a Ruger LCR 357 Magnum. Sometimes carry my dear departed Mother's Smith 49. I find myself carrying the 22 Mag more than any other because it's so easy to carry.

 

[tops]

"I don't feel under gunned with my [insert whatever gun here]."

We hear this phrase all the time and it has absolutely no bearing on the subject matter. What a person "feels" about their gun is completely irrelevant. Only what the gun/caliber is capable of is important. You might "feel" fine carrying a .380Auto on that safari, but the elephant will still squash you after you shot it with every round you have.

Very true. Another phrase I have heard down at the beer joint is "I ain't afraid of no knife or gun". That gun or knife don't care whether or not you are afraid because it can still kill you deader than 4 o'clock. Larry

 

[sigp220.45]

"I don't feel under gunned with my [insert whatever gun here]."

We hear this phrase all the time and it has absolutely no bearing on the subject matter. What a person "feels" about their gun is completely irrelevant. Only what the gun/caliber is capable of is important. You might "feel" fine carrying a .380Auto on that safari, but the elephant will still squash you after you shot it with every round you have.

I'd say that depends. If the "don't feel undergunned" person is basing the feeling on decades of first-hand experience working murders and shootings, going to autopsies, dealing with armed criminals, and being in and around the occasional shooting scrap, then that feeling is probably valid.

If, one the other hand, that person is basing their good .380 vibes on secondhand accounts, internet tales, and magazine articles then you are probably right.

I carried my .380 today, and didn't feel undergunned in the least.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Unless you're hunting bear it will suffice

.380 is just fine for Bear. Shot placement is the key.

 

[Wise_A]

My primary argument against the .380 is, and always has been, that by the time you shrink the gun to the point that it offers a size advantage against modern 9mm pistols, I can't shoot it so well. As soon as the gun gets much shorter than a G26, and real sights turn into those horrid triangular pyramid things, there's a pretty sharp drop-off in my ability to shoot them well. 7 yards, I'm still okay. At 10? Forget about it.

Ditto for J-frames, sort've. I can shoot them great if the sun is shining. At dusk, forget about it. You're probably pretty safe from me at 50 feet.

Given that there are plenty of pistols available that are concealable, and have real sights and a trigger-to-backstrap length that doesn't suck, I don't much care for the .380 m'self.

As for "I feel"--well, it's a variant of "well it works for me". But the thing of it is that "I feel" is a weak defense against a weak argument. You can apply the crux of ".380s suck" to pretty much any cartridge:

Don't carry a 9mm, carry a .40/.357 Sig.
Don't carry a .40, carry a 10mm.
Don't carry a .45, carry a .45 Super.
Don't carry a .45 Super, carry a .460 Rowland.

That said, I don't really buy into the "expert opinion" counter-argument (sorry Sig), because nobody's really been in that many gunfights. In any case, it sort've sidesteps the problem. Sure, a (insert small-size caliber here) might be sufficient in 95% of cases, but is downsizing worth giving up on the remaining 5%?

Hence why I argue against .380 as more of a "pocket guns are really limiting for me" thing. I'm nearly as good with a G26 as I am with a G34, and the 26 is really concealable. And, curiously, I know I'm better with a G26 than a full-size 9mm 1911.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fLKrkmSToo[/ame]

 

[Ziggy2525]

The video is funny. You get it's sarcasm about people that say pocket pistols aren't big enough, right?

 

[Wise_A]

I sort've expected people not to think I was retarded. Just the same as I sort've expected everyone to read my post and go, "Oh hey, he's talking about why he doesn't carry a .380, he's not telling me I'm dumb for carrying one." I advance that argument because I don't think I'm really that abnormal a shooter: not really mind-blowingly great, but I shoot a lot and I don't suck at it. Hence, maybe stuff that applies to me applies to a pretty decent-sized cross-section of shooters.

There's still stuff that I think is just plainly a sub-par choice--for instance, I don't get the whole thing some folks have with the Colt Pocket Hammerless. But whatever, bullets still come out the little hole at the end, which fulfills the basic requirements.

And there's stuff I think is just retarded, which I'll happily call out as such...

I don't think I'm alone on the above, either. I couldn't remember what that dumpster fire was called, so I Google'd "Glock stupid", and found that picture.

I also liked how Chris--how the hell does he keep a straight face through all this?--started whapping on "hitpoints", a tool I've been using to make fun of CCW gamers for years.

 

[REM 3200]

.380 is just fine for Bear. Shot placement is the key.

You're right. Right into your hunting partner's knee cap.

 

[Wise_A]

You're right. Right into your hunting partner's knee cap.

No! A .380 auto pistol has plenty of penetration for bear.

You just have to fire it post-consumption.

Also, in before somebody posts the picture of the old Indian woman that killed one with a .22.

 

[Ziggy2525]

I sort've expected people not to think I was retarded. Just the same as I sort've expected everyone to read my post and go, "Oh hey, he's talking about why he doesn't carry a .380, he's not telling me I'm dumb for carrying one."

Don't think you're retarded. No disrespect intended. I was on board where with you were talking about what worked for you until you went here....

...
That said, I don't really buy into the "expert opinion" counter-argument (sorry Sig), because nobody's really been in that many gunfights. In any case, it sort've sidesteps the problem. Sure, a (insert small-size caliber here) might be sufficient in 95% of cases, but is downsizing worth giving up on the remaining 5%?

Hence why I argue against .380 as more of a "pocket guns are really limiting for me" thing. I'm nearly as good with a G26 as I am with a G34, and the 26 is really concealable. And, curiously, I know I'm better with a G26 than a full-size 9mm 1911.

... and then you linked a video poking fun at people that argue the very thing you were arguing. Didn't seem to fit with the point you were trying to make.

 

[sigp220.45]

My primary argument against the .380 is, and always has been, that by the time you shrink the gun to the point that it offers a size advantage against modern 9mm pistols, I can't shoot it so well. As soon as the gun gets much shorter than a G26, and real sights turn into those horrid triangular pyramid things, there's a pretty sharp drop-off in my ability to shoot them well. 7 yards, I'm still okay. At 10? Forget about it.

Ditto for J-frames, sort've. I can shoot them great if the sun is shining. At dusk, forget about it. You're probably pretty safe from me at 50 feet.

Given that there are plenty of pistols available that are concealable, and have real sights and a trigger-to-backstrap length that doesn't suck, I don't much care for the .380 m'self.

As for "I feel"--well, it's a variant of "well it works for me". But the thing of it is that "I feel" is a weak defense against a weak argument. You can apply the crux of ".380s suck" to pretty much any cartridge:

Don't carry a 9mm, carry a .40/.357 Sig.
Don't carry a .40, carry a 10mm.
Don't carry a .45, carry a .45 Super.
Don't carry a .45 Super, carry a .460 Rowland.

That said, I don't really buy into the "expert opinion" counter-argument (sorry Sig), because nobody's really been in that many gunfights. In any case, it sort've sidesteps the problem. Sure, a (insert small-size caliber here) might be sufficient in 95% of cases, but is downsizing worth giving up on the remaining 5%?

Hence why I argue against .380 as more of a "pocket guns are really limiting for me" thing. I'm nearly as good with a G26 as I am with a G34, and the 26 is really concealable. And, curiously, I know I'm better with a G26 than a full-size 9mm 1911.

YouTube

No worries. We all base our decisions on our personal experiences.

My first job in the FBI was on a Violent Crimes/Fugitive Task Force in New Orleans, which was at the time the murder capital of the US. We arrested people all day, every day, for serious felonies - murder, attempted murder, aggravated assault, rape, armed robbery, arson, and aggravated burglary (home invasion). Most had been shot at some point prior to me hooking them up. I'm a personable guy, and on the way to Central Lockup I would ask them about what they had been shot with, and they almost always were happy to show me their bullet scars and tell me how they got shot. I also stood over a busload of dead people, and attended their autopsies, and talked to scads of witnesses who had seen people shot. I was also in a few scrapes myself, but as you said, nobody anymore is in enough shoot-em-ups to to claim expert status.

But, I don't think you should discount the opinions of people who have seen steam rising from dead folks, or watched the ME saw off skull caps, or talked to murderers and witnesses, and worked cases through the system to the creation of shiny new felons. You can if you want, of course. I know many instructors who get overly defensive over never having done what they are teaching others to do, but you don't strike me as that type.

My little journey has led me to believe the hardware aspect of shooting people is the least important. Any gun can work, and any gun can fail. I knew guys who could barely qualify and didn't know what brand their gun was, let alone what kind of ammo they were carrying. They used whatever the department gave them. They had all killed people in straight up gunfights, and were absolutely reliable in a scrap. I'd happily hit doors with them all day long.

 

[TomkinsSP]

...My little journey has led me to believe the hardware aspect of shooting people is the least important. Any gun can work, and any gun can fail. I knew guys who could barely qualify and didn't know what brand their gun was, let alone what kind of ammo they were carrying. They (the guns) had all killed people in straight up gunfights, and were absolutely reliable in a scrap.

Different city, municipal PD, same experience.

 

[oberon]

Why does this topic use up so much time & space?

One well placed hit with a dinky 'anemic' round is worth any number of misses with any round....period.