Is the .40 dead?

[Smoke]

If I get shot I hope its' with a 9 not a 40, I'll have a better chance of survival.

Can you cite data to support that assertion?

 

[Smoke]

I never really noticed a huge difference in recoil until I took my 9mm Shield and my 4006 to the range together. Even though the 4006 was (obviously) the heavier pistol I actually did notice the difference after a day of shooting the 9mm. My groups were significantly bigger with the 4006 than they were with the Shield.

The only subcompact .40 I ever owned was a CZ RAMI (Heavy steel gun) and it was literally painful for my wife to shoot, it left bruises on her hands after she shot it once or twice. I’ve said this before but my preference is to carry similar guns and not to have to stock a bunch of different calibers. So when I decided to get another subcompact gun (the much lighter M&P Shield) I went with a 9mm so that my wife could shoot it if need be. When I got a full Size M&P I chose 9mm because I don’t want to have to stock a bunch of different calibers.

I still like my 4006 and I intend to keep it as a fall back in case of another (inevitable) ammo panic but I can’t see my self ever buying a .40 S&W caliber gun just because it’s a .40 S&W. Maybe an M&P .40 to keep in line with wanting similar platforms but I can’t see laying out 500 bucks for a gun I know is going to be a safe queen.

 

[Dikinalaska]

I have no personal data since I've never shot at a person, but I've read that in the last couple of decades the ammo makers have improved 9mm ammo a lot, in terms of expansion and terminal ballistics. Certainly if the 40 was better 20 years ago then the same new technology should improve the 40 and keep it better than the 9. But maybe the thought is that the 9 is now good enough.

I agree here. I have a Shield 9 and Shield 40, and with the right ammo the 9 is VERY comparable to the 40. In SD rounds, I do think the 9 is pretty far ahead of the 40 in terms of advancement. My belief is shot placement is most important. I just like the 40 round. I researched a bit and just decided on the 40. I've got a 1911 10mm as well. I thought that round was dead, but it just turned out I got into the round during the wake of the obama-scare. Now I can find it whenever I want. And I'm in a tiny town in Alaska haha. So it's not so dead, and the 40 is nowhere as near the grave as the 10. I need to start reloading because you can load a 10 to be similar ballistically from 9+p to 41mag loads. It's my sidearm for bear when we camp, with the 16" KSG as the primary lol

 

[old tanker]

I look forward to the day that we move past the narrative of "how a single 9mm bullet that underperformed in Miami doomed the entire caliber"

The bullet passed through an arm as well as making it through ribs and a lung. Saying it underperformed isn't really fair. Anyway, that whole narrative would qualify as the biggest overreaction to anything I've heard of in the gun world. One bullet of 9mm stopped an inch short of a guy's heart, therefore create a whole new caliber and cost a buttload of taxpayer money to equip PDs with new guns in that caliber.

I would say it did exactly as engineered. It was designed to meet the, then in vogue, Justice Department's Relative Incapacitation Index which favored rapidly expanding high velocity bullets and their large temporary wound cavity. Dumping all the energy in the target and not exiting was supposed to work. Ironically, a GI 124 grain FMJ would likely have gotten the job done. Besides, blaming the caliber is more palatable than blaming the tactics.

 

[rattlesnakedaddy]

[sarcasm mode]Yes the .40 S&W is quite dead.

With modern bullet designs exclusive to the 9mm cartridge, there is no reason to carry any other caliber. The 'vunder 9' will out perform any and all others, and is the easiest to get proper shot placement with. Just don't shorten it by 2mm. If you do that, you will have the most ineffective round on the planet. [/sarcasm mode]

RSD

Edited to clarify use of sarcasm.

 

[pyro]

??? Modern bullet designs are NOT exclusive to the 9mm

 

[model70hunter]

Wait, no one is mentioning thd 38 super. It penetrates bad guy armor and their 39 hudson automobile bodies.

isnt it still a choice for G men?

 

[rattlesnakedaddy]

??? Modern bullet designs are NOT exclusive to the 9mm

Perhaps the sarcasm in my post is difficult to detect.

 

[pyro]

Perhaps the sarcasm in my post is difficult to detect.

LOL, a senior moment. I missed it!

 

[JMichaelTX]

My Reading of Sarcasm seems to be lacking

Perhaps the sarcasm in my post is difficult to detect.

I missed it too.
What's scary, is that apparently some people actually believe what you posted.

Thanks for clarifying.

From you original post:

Yes the .40 S&W is quite dead.

With modern bullet designs exclusive to the 9mm cartridge, there is no reason to carry any other caliber.

 

[Johnrh]

I started shooting USPSA with an XD 40 because I didn't want to reload those little 9's. Then used it in IDPA. Now I carry the XD and have a M&P Pro 40 for IDPA. I may have shot 2 rounds with a 9, cute little things. I'll keep my 40's. Even at 70 yo they are not hard to shoot and really fun. But now I'm reloading for my 380's, go figure.

 

[reloader550]

In Dave Spauldings vid he shoots 9 shots with the glock (9mm), 5 shots with the colt (45acp), for a total of 14 shots. I counted 17 holes in his target at the end of the vid, and he did not shoot any thing chambered in 40 to compare his time with the other two calibers. I guess there were no 40 caliber guns back in 2010.

 

[Biscut]

Some phenomena amaze me. There are sooo many Mil and LE guys here who know what drives Mil/LE purchasing yet the flock tends to follow. Guess that is why they are the flock.

I am lucky to own many calibers. About the only way I'd ditch any of my 45s, 40s, 9mm, 10s, is if I could find a 10 shot 16oz or less, semi auto 357 with NO FELT RECOIL

Until then, I know for sure that bullet technology has pretty much made my 9mm, 40, 10mm, 45, all pretty damn equal in the killing department.

Fun??? That is purely personal.

 

[Terminator X]

Well, I hope its not dead since I just bought a .40 last night.

 

[OldCop876]

I don't know if it is dead, but personally I am not a big fan of it.
Several years ago in an ammo acquisition I received 2,000
rounds of .40 S&W ammo. I didn't have a .40 cal at the time
and it just sat around. I figured with all the ammo I might as
well get myself a 40. I shopped around, and purchased a Model 4006 in 2009.
I took it to the range and fired about 200 rounds through it.
I wasn't very impressed with the .40 cal round but I loved the gun.
I have several third gens in 10mm, 45ACP, and 9mm that I love
to shoot, but there was something about the .40 that just didn't
do it for me.
All this being said, last year I bought another Model 4006 at a
gun show for under $350.00 out the door just for the price.
No box or papers but it was in 95% plus condition.
So now I have two Model 4006s and 1,800 rounds of .40 S&W
just sitting around. I don't know if I will ever get around to
shooting them again. When I do go to the range,
I usually shoot my revolvers, either a Model 28, 625, or a 629.
I am not saying the round it dead, nor am I putting it down.
It just doesn't do anything for me.
JMHO.

Stu

Stu, I have a place in my gun safe for a 4006 if you ever want to sell one of yours! PM me if you want to let one go.

 

[Kframerbluvr]

It can die I could care less. I was never interested in the 40cal. But I'm a die hard 1911a1/45acp guy. But I prefer Magnum revolvers.

Anyway what's the life expectancy of the plastic 40's in the department? How often to they retire them?

We traded in our first batch of Glock 22s in 2005 after seven years of service. If I recall correctly, two guns suffered either locking block or locking block pin breakage and the decision was made to trade rather than refurbish 300+ guns. The new 2005 guns were Glock 23s and the first one broke last week during a Basic Jailors Academy. The student attempted remedial action when her weapon stopped working during a course. When I retrieved it from the student, the barrel would ride backward with the slide as it was racked to the rear.
When I stripped the pistol, the locking block was missing the entire center section that runs perpendicular to the frame rails. Glock was contacted and they are sending a replacement block.
I suspect this particular gun had a very high round count from being used as an Academy weapon and the recoil spring was original.
I suspect most agencies trade every ten years, on average, unless they have the resources to refurbish the guns themselves. Figuring labor costs, it probably is cheaper to trade rather then refurbish.

 

[JMichaelTX]

<sarcasm>
I love firing these .40 dead rounds! They are so much more effective!

Please continue this propaganda campaign so that hopefully the manufacturers and resellers will have to drop their prices for .40 rounds, because they are dead and no one is buying them (except me).
</sarcasm>

 

[warbird]

I like guns, any caliber!

 

[DHart]

There is no doubt that 9mm is sweeping the floor in gunshop sales. For numerous good reasons that most here already know.

That said, 40 is a slightly more potent caliber, yet retaining good capacity. It is, in effect, a compromise round between 9 and 45. And for that reason, I see it as continuing on indefinitely.

I do not like my Glocks in 40. But in pistols that are very well suited to 40S&W, it is a very comfortable round to shoot.

In the BHP, STI Edge, and S&W's M&P40 and M&P40C, the round is a joy to shoot. And it is very effective (as a handgun round). I think 40S&W is AWESOME, will be around for the long haul, and I confidently shoot and (more than any other pistols these days) regularly carry the M&P40 and M&P40C.

16 rounds of hot forty in a comfortably carried, comfortable to shoot, and wonderfully accurate pistol is a good thing. Shorts, t-shirt, and M&P40:





As carry guns, I think the M&P forties are exceptional choices.

 

[justicetyme]

Rats!!!
Just when I'd shot my .40s

including my 646


or my SIG Elite


or a number of other .40 S&Ws enough to acquire enough cases to think about reloading.



Well I guess I'm off to gunbroker to get rid of them all!
James