Is the frequency of lemons increasing?

[dwever]

Of course S&W"s quality isn't what it used to be. Name one American, or any product for that matter, that still is what it was 30+ years ago! Even 20yrs for that matter.

Wilson Combat now vs. 1995. The integration of CNC machines that mill at the thousandths of an inch tolerances (+/- 0.005) has been game changing.

"The past always looks better than it was. It's only pleasant because it isn't here." Finley Peter Dunne.

 

[American1776]

S&W today is a different company form the one who put out the fine pieces of craftsmanship from days of yore.

That said, they still make fine revolvers overall. This is the QC and tolerances that 700-1000 dollars for a production revolver will get you today. If a company were to replicate the old world craftsmanship of the pinned barrel era, we would be paying 2,000 minimum.

Sad fact of the times.

 

[ClayCow]

Of course S&W"s quality isn't what it used to be. Name one American, or any product for that matter, that still is what it was 30+ years ago! Even 20yrs for that matter.
If it was the same Smith it was in the 80's you'd be paying $3k for that gun you just got for $800.

Motorola. Ford. GE. And many more. There are less defects than there were 10 years ago. There is this thing called six sigma. No offense but you should research it

 

[Edmo]

Quality issues? I judge not by the various inter-web posts, but by my own experiences.

The quality of my older S&W revolvers has been good. However, the quality of those purchased over the last three to four years has been lacking. I've posted about these issues in detail in the past so I will only hit the highlights.

I'm a fan of small revolvers and in the recent years have purchased a BG38 Bodyguard and three different J frames (two 642s and a 640 Pro). Here is how these small guns have faired.

- BG38 sent back twice and deemed unrepairable... Replaced.
- 642 #1 still going strong.
- 642 #2 sent back and deemed unrepairable... Replaced.
- 640 Pro sent back twice. Repaired.

Another way to look at it:

- 25% have been flawless.
- 75% had to go back for repairs.
- 50% had to go back a second time.
- Ultimately all were fixed or replaced. I still own the "good" 642 and the 640 Pro.

Although my purchases are an extremely small sampling of their overall production, it tells me S&W has quality control issues. To help appease their customers they will cover shipping both ways and repair or replace your gun until it is right.

Is that the right way to do business? You be the judge...

I know others have only had flawless guns from S&W. If I had been that lucky I might feel differently.

Fool me once, fool me twice... I'm not running out to buy any more of their current production anytime soon.

Edmo

 

[hoosierone]

Reminds me of my 1993Chrysler bought new. Nothing but trouble from the first day (windshield cracked on its own). I was on my third transmission and decided to get rid of it before it hit 70,000 as the next trans would be on me. Many other nit picky issues with that car.

A friend had the exact same car and never had a problem with it.

 

[slabside2]

Quality issues? I judge not by the various inter-web posts, but by my own experiences.

The quality of my older S&W revolvers has been good. However, the quality of those purchased over the last three to four years has been lacking. I've posted about these issues in detail in the past so I will only hit the highlights.

I'm a fan of small revolvers and in the recent years have purchased a BG38 Bodyguard and three different J frames (two 642s and a 640 Pro). Here is how theses small guns have faired.

- BG38 sent back twice and deemed unrepairable... Replaced.
- 642 #1 still going strong.
- 642 #2 sent back and deemed unrepairable... Replaced.
- 640 Pro sent back twice. Repaired.

Another way to look at it:

- 25% have been flawless.
- 75% had to go back for repairs.
- 50% had to go back a second time.
- Ultimately all were fixed or replaced. I still own the "good" 642 and the 640 Pro.

Although my purchases are an extremely small sampling of their overall production, it tells me S&W has quality control issues. To help appease their customers they will cover shipping both ways and repair or replace your gun until it is right.

Is that the right way to do business? You be the judge...

I know others have only had flawless guns from S&W. If I had been that lucky I might feel differently.

Fool me once, fool me twice... I'm not running out to buy any more of their current production anytime soon.

Edmo

Well said! I had a very similar experience with S&W. I bought 3 Ruger LCR's 2 were keepers 1 had to go back. I guess that's just the way things are throughout the gun industry today and I don't see it getting any better anytime soon.

 

[BoulderTroll]

Well said! I had a very similar experience with S&W. I bought 3 Ruger LCR's 2 were keepers 1 had to go back. I guess that's just the way things are throughout the gun industry today and I don't see it getting any better anytime soon.

Don't believe that is the way things are of the entire gun industry today. I know of many gun companies that have better QC than that. LaRue Tactical, Noveske, Colt, Daniel Defense, SIG Sauer (1911's aside), HK, Glock, et.c. The list could keep going. Each of these companies may produce a lemon from time to time, but you can buy one with very little chance of actually having to send it back. As much as I like their revolvers, I'd have to say that S&W QC, based on what I've personally seen, is one of the worse examples of QC in modern gun companies (especially if we're considering price point), and should not be viewed as the rule.

 

[cgb]

As with any publicly traded company, making money for the stock holder, or screwing the stock holder so that someone else can make money, is the only priority. The product, the customer, these are not even considerations. Sad, but this is the world we live in.

 

[BoulderTroll]

Well, I'd made some derogatory comments about the 686+ 3" that I had waiting on the 10 day waiting period for me to pick up. I just got home with it, and maybe it's simply my love at first sight, but the earlier problems I noticed are incredibly minor, and very easy to live with.

It may have been the lighting in the gun store, but the finish isn't nearly as scratched as I remember it, and the barrel cant now that I see it at home, is so minor as to be almost imperceptible. The front sight post is still crooked, and I think that might have been what led me to believe it had so much barrel cant, where in fact, it appears to have almost none.

In interest of full disclosure I wanted to update this thread and change my earlier observations. They may have some QC control issues, but this particular revolver wasn't deserving of the unkind things I said about it. I truly am in love. (of course the stock rubber grips were awful, but it is already wearing a set of hand oil rubbed Ahrends boot grips.)