Is this a safe load?

First get some underwood ammo and see if it is doing 1300fps out of your gun. You do not know what powder(s) underwood is using, you may be chasing a Unicorn! Just because the box says 1300 does not make it a fact. Be Careful trying to make a high pressure load without the knowledge or equipment, you could end up having to throw bullets with your off hand. Please Be Safe.

Underwood Ammo no longer exists, believe me, I have checked, it is out of stock everywhere and has no back order, short of finding someone willing to sell me a box, by shear chance, the only thing I have to go by is their published data and youtube videos. They claim 1,300 fps from a 4 inch barrel, I’m just assuming that is correct.

If I could get any of the underwood stuff, and I don’t even need much, I’d be happy with just 2 boxes, I wouldn’t even be bothering with this and would be focussed on “normal” loads instead using established data, like those 158 grains mentioned earlier.
 
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That's quite a jump in powder. Their high is 7.5 and you go up to 8.9 grains. If trying to produce hot loads pushing the boundaries you really should invest in a powder measure that can adjust in smaller increments.

I agree, and I intend to get an auto drum, but it is out of stock and not expected until late next month, assuming it comes at all, in the meantime I don’t even have my auto disk, mine is defective and will need warranty service from Lee. I simply based my charges on what it will throw when it works.
 
The stores around here are even worse, the Dunhams litterally has bare shelves, save for 12 gauge birdshot, there is **** tons of that, a whole aisle full, plus a pallet, and the gunshop only has Fudd rifle rounds, and only a few boxes of that. If I go further out I can find ammunition, but only obscure stuff, fudd rounds, shotgun shells, and occasionally a couple of boxes of 7.62x39, anything else remotely useful to anyone other than Elmer is gone though, I have to order that stuff. Some 10mm, .454 casul, and .45LC shows up on occasion but I have nothing in those calibers. I’ve been tempted to get the .45LC though just so I can get some large pistol primers to load .45 ACP, but as of yet have not, just too wasteful.
 
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That’s the issue, underwood’s load data is unknown, so I’m literally guessing, hence this thread, so I don’t blow something up.

I selected True Blue simply because it had the highest velocity on Lehigh Defense’s data of the powders I have on hand. As for the velocity focus, the Xtreme Defender bullet performs better in terms of wounding capacity the better the velocity as it doesn’t function as a hollow point but instead uses fluid pressure channeled through the flutes on the bullet and velocity equals pressure, also it’s a solid copper projectile and more criminals where armor these days than before, still unlikely, but I figure it gives it a fighting chance of punching through armor if need be, at least the lightweight stuff.

I did consult Lehigh, they do not have a reason for not listing +p load data, the guy I talked to said they simply have not gotten around to it and that +p load data will be added in the future.

Looking at Western Powder’s data, I am now considering Ram Shot Silhouette at 7.1 grains instead, according to their data, that pushes a 110 grain Sierra to 1,304 fps, which would put me over my goal, I’m assuming a 100 grain Xtreme Defense will go to an even better velocity, however the cartridge overall length will be longer, not to mention the ballistics so I’m not sure. Would it be reasonable to assume that (working up from 6.7 grains) would be a safe load? Even 6.7 grains gives 1,233 fps according to their load data, which is much better than Lehigh Defenses figure, add in a lighter bullet and who knows?
This sounds like a much wiser route to go. If the Silhouette will push a 110gr bullet to 1300fps, then it should get even more velocity out of the 100gr. Given your shortage of components I'd start with the 6.7gr and work up by .2 gr increments. That would give you 3 stepped loads, of 6.7gr, 6.9gr, and 7.1gr covering min to max. Chances are that you're going to hit your velocity target at one of the lower loads. Longer COAL is not an issue provided the rounds fully fit within the cylinder and don't stick out the front of it. Loading to the cannelure is the way to go. Be sure to put a good roll crimp on them into the cannelure. You don't want them jumping crimp under recoil and binding up your cylinder. The fact that they are solid copper means that you don't have to worry about squeezing the diameter down or doing any other damage to the bullets.
 
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Looking at Western Powder’s data, I am now considering Ram Shot Silhouette at 7.1 grains instead, according to their data, that pushes a 110 grain Sierra to 1,304 fps, which would put me over my goal, I’m assuming a 100 grain Xtreme Defense will go to an even better velocity, however the cartridge overall length will be longer, not to mention the ballistics so I’m not sure.

OK, you're looking at data for a published load using a Sierra bullet, which I assume is a cup and core standard bullet. The bullet you want to use is a solid copper bullet. This will have a longer contact patch with the bore (increased bore friction) and the force needed to engrave the rifling in the harder solid copper projectile will be higher. In other words, you're in unknown territory so far as pressure goes, but the wise bet is that the pressure with the LeHigh bullet will be higher. The real question is how much higher. You can't really compare load data from standard bullets with the bullet you intend to use. (Although why you want to be a beta tester for unproven theory is beyond me. Still, it's your choice. If it's the only thing available, I feel your pain.)

Your best bet at this point would be to try LeHigh's standard pressure data and see what velocities you get out of your firearm. Then proceed with extreme caution. I would also regard fantastic velocity claims with extreme suspicion. You are most unlikely to duplicate someone's claimed velocities at safe pressures.

Oh, DO NOT assume that the data sheet charge weight for your powder dispenser is correct. Scale weigh your test loads. Scale weigh 10 or so powder drops and get an average. Hopefully, you may find some safe load that the powder dispenser either matches or comes close to on the lower side.
 
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OK, you're looking at data for a published load using a Sierra bullet, which I assume is a cup and core standard bullet. The bullet you want to use is a solid copper bullet. This will have a longer contact patch with the bore (increased bore friction) and the force needed to engrave the rifling in the harder solid copper projectile will be higher. In other words, you're in unknown territory so far as pressure goes, but the wise bet is that the pressure with the LeHigh bullet will be higher. The real question is how much higher. You can't really compare load data from standard bullets with the bullet you intend to use. (Although why you want to be a beta tester for unproven theory is beyond me. Still, it's your choice. If it's the only thing available, I feel your pain.)

Your best bet at this point would be to try LeHigh's standard pressure data and see what velocities you get out of your firearm. Then proceed with extreme caution. I would also regard fantastic velocity claims with extreme suspicion. You are most unlikely to duplicate someone's claimed velocities at safe pressures.

Oh, DO NOT assume that the data sheet charge weight for your powder dispenser is correct. Scale weigh your test loads. Scale weight 10 or so powder drops and get an average. Hopefully, you may find some safe load that the powder dispenser either matches or comes close to on the lower side.

Frustration I suppose, I can’t buy what I want so I want to make it myself, the test data I have seen makes it look like the most effective self defense load and I want the best so here I am. If I knew it was going to be restocked I would just buy it, but I don’t.
 
They say a picture is worth a thousand words
SO
H6rrysY.jpg
 
.38spl Xtreme loads

I don't want to tell you how to drive your train, but if you are a beginning handloader I hope you will go slow. If you are very careful and wear eyes and ears, you might get through a catastrophic failure unharmed. Your K-frame will probably fail at the locking notch in the cylinder and maybe not get the cylinder and topstrap all at once. Your fine 10-6 is not an N-frame. Please go slowly and don't get yourself hurt. Be safe and be well.............

Edit; I see Steelsaver posted while I was composing.
 
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It may well be true that ammo and reloading supplies are in short supply

But, that hardly justifies risking destruction of one of the firearms you already own by trying to get maximum velocity form an undersized bullet with a fast powder using faulty reloading equipment. Maxing those 100gr bullets to go another 200fps will not make them all that much more lethal. MxV² is fine on paper but it just does not work out on the street. Power is fine accuracy is final. Plus firing one round that might be as dangerous to yourself as your opponent isn't a great plan. It is a poor one. What your trying to do might work and it might well wreck your gun. If you do hit the max load and then your equipment gives you even a little bit more your screwed. If I was going to try this I would use a digital scale go up by very small amounts trying a small group of each level in something heavy duty like a model 28 or a Ruger firing over a chronograph and checking for flat primers and stick ejection

Don't compound the lack of foresight to keep a good stock of ammunition and or components by trying to fix it with extremely risky reloading practices. BTW you can get Lee molds of Ebay and have them in a couple days and lead too. Plus if you go down to the local metal scrap yards they may well have some. If your dire prediction is correct you should be looking at this and reliable simple loads that DON'T RISK YOUR GUN. Tearing down perfectly good target loads to make extremely risky ones isn't a good plan, its a waste of good loads.

If you lived near me I would sell you 100 primers for regular prices.

If you keep going in the direction your headed now, all I see the gun pictured above.
 
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Trying to get max velocity out of a fast burning pistol powder is touchy

exceeding max loads is downright dangerous

Instead of taking advice from strangers on the internet, why not contact them . . .

https://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

"Ramshot powders contact us 913-362-9455"
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Lehigh Defense, LLC (256) 787-1311
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I did, that’s where I got my second set of load data, I switched to Silhouette and loaded 6.7 grains, 6.9 grains, and 7.1 grains.
 
I have been down this road, and lived to tell about it.

1. Forget your fixed disk powder measure. Going to max you should weigh each charge or at the very least weigh each one until you settle on a load and then get an adjustable measure and make very sure it's throwing correctly.

2. Just because they list load data does not mean they are using any of those powders. They may be using bulk powder that you can't replicate.

3. If I was doing this I'd use the slowest powder they list. You are somewhat less likely to get into trouble vs. the faster powders. The slowest powder is most likely to give you highest velocity with the least pressure.

4.Extrapolating data is extremely dangerous. As previously stated things are not linear. Just treat it like any other load and work your way up.

Usually, I just couldn't quite get there.
 
It may well be true that ammo and reloading supplies are in short supply

But, that hardly justifies risking destruction of one of the firearms you already own by trying to get maximum velocity form an undersized bullet with a fast powder using faulty reloading equipment. Maxing those 100gr bullets to go another 200fps will not make them all that much more lethal. MxV² is fine on paper but it just does not work out on the street. Power is fine accuracy is final. Plus firing one round that might be as dangerous to yourself as your opponent isn't a great plan. It is a poor one. What your trying to do might work and it might well wreck your gun. If you do hit the max load and then your equipment gives you even a little bit more your screwed. If I was going to try this I would use a digital scale go up by very small amounts trying a small group of each level in something heavy duty like a model 28 or a Ruger firing over a chronograph and checking for flat primers and stick ejection

Don't compound the lack of foresight to keep a good stock of ammunition and or components by trying to fix it with extremely risky reloading practices. BTW you can get Lee molds of Ebay and have them in a couple days and lead too. Plus if you go down to the local metal scrap yards they may well have some. If your dire prediction is correct you should be looking at this and reliable simple loads that DON'T RISK YOUR GUN. Tearing down perfectly good target loads to make extremely risky ones isn't a good plan, its a waste of good loads.

If you lived near me I would sell you 100 primers for regular prices.

If you keep going in the direction your headed now, all I see the gun pictured above.

I checked ebay and I flat out refuse to pay $150 for a $40 Lee mold from a scalper. Stop buying from scalpers and they will stop. My “lack of foresight” was a lack of budget, even before the panic putting back thousands of rounds was an expensive proposition. I’d thought of reloading before but did not anticipate it getting this bad this soon.

I fully intend to start at the minimum load and work up and have loaded 6 rounds of each charge level to take to the range and will be using a Caldwell G2 Ballistic Precision Chronograph, which I bought specifically for this purpose. And I do use a digital scale, it gives accurate readings however it has an annoying habit of a wandering zero after a few seconds and it doesn’t like to update when powder is only trickled in. To use it, I get close, then pour the powder in an empty case, re zero the scale, then pour the powder out of the casing back on to the scale, then I repeat until it repeats the correct measurement, so I will measure say 7.1 grains, pour off the powder, re zero, then measure the powder again, if it still reads 7.1 I know the measure was accurate the first time, I repeated that process for each round then hand fed the charged cases through my press.

Where do you get that the bullet is undersized? It is made specifically for .38 special, it is light though, is that what you meant?

I’d be happy to test with a .357 magnum if I had one but I don’t, I only have the Model 10, however I know that the 10-6 WAS able to handle .357 magnum if it was chambered for it (at least occasionally) and the models 13 and 19 (at least) used the same frame, so I suspect it can take at least that much pressure.

These loads are specific for daily carry (when I am carrying the revolver), I only intend to make about 50 once I get the load data. My range ammo is just standard low velocity stuff. As for plans to supply myself during the shortage, those indeed will be soft loads, for the reasons you mentioned and also to preserve materials. I plan to load 158 grain cast powder coated bullets over a light to medium powder charge using established load data, and if it gets as nasty as I suspect I will also be using home made primers and home made black powder and range pickup brass so the loads will be very light indeed.

I agree, tearing down loaded rounds is indeed wasteful however it is the only way I can get primers short of making them myself from match heads and since these are intended for defensive carry I will not use an improvised primer, hence why I tore down target rounds to get primed cases. I appreciate the gesture with the primers and I sincerely wish I did live close enough to do that but I don’t. For me to get primers I must either cannibalize loaded rounds, make my own, or pay a scalper, and I refuse to pay a scalper. As far as I’m concerned the scalpers can shove the primers up their buts then sit on a nail. Same reason I won’t buy from Cheaper Than Dirt (you know, if “dirt” is gold and platinum, and “cheaper” is like a penny, “you saved -5000%!”)
 
And I do use a digital scale, it gives accurate readings however it has an annoying habit of a wandering zero after a few seconds and it doesn’t like to update when powder is only trickled in. To use it, I get close, then pour the powder in an empty case, re zero the scale, then pour the powder out of the casing back on to the scale, then I repeat until it repeats the correct measurement, so I will measure say 7.1 grains, pour off the powder, re zero, then measure the powder again, if it still reads 7.1 I know the measure was accurate the first time, I repeated that process for each round then hand fed the charged cases through my press.

................ (you know, if “dirt” is gold and platinum, and “cheaper” is like a penny, “you saved -5000%!”)

I have no idea what you paid for the whizz-bang electronic scale, but a simple magnetically dampened beam scale (and a set of check weights-which you should have bought with the whizz-bang scale) would probably have been cheaper and would certainly be faster to use. Should be a next purchase priority.

As someone noted above, bullet placement is far more important than bullet diameter, shape, velocity, weight and/or sexy design.
 
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Having to pull perfectly good ammo apart to experiment with in todays reloading world isn’t a good idea imo. If you have no components why bother to do this now? Let’s say you achieve your goal but only have a handful of loads built-why bother? And on the other side lets say that you do unfortunately blow the cylinder and destroy the gun and are hurt bad enough to go to the er for treatment exposing yourself and potentially your family to covid. Another bad consequence. Bad timing-bad idea.
 
True

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I’d be happy to test with a .357 magnum if I had one but I don’t, I only have the Model 10, however I know that the 10-6 WAS able to handle .357 magnum if it was chambered for it (at least occasionally) and the models 13 and 19 (at least) used the same frame, so I suspect it can take at least that much pressure.

I was testing some published, but hot loads, and felt safe using the model 10 before I got the .357. The loading data said the loads were safe in 'strong, modern pistols' and the mod 10 falls into that category.

It came from an old Sierra (read 'hunting' loads) before paranoia set in.
 
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Having to pull perfectly good ammo apart to experiment with in todays reloading world isn’t a good idea imo. If you have no components why bother to do this now? Let’s say you achieve your goal but only have a handful of loads built-why bother? And on the other side lets say that you do unfortunately blow the cylinder and destroy the gun and are hurt bad enough to go to the er for treatment exposing yourself and potentially your family to covid. Another bad consequence. Bad timing-bad idea.

Because I don’t anticipate components becoming available again in the near future, I expect about 2 and a half years, at best, and potentially closer to 10-15. Meanwhile, the situation continues to deteriorate and I would really like to have the most effective defensive ammo possible, preferably before looters start burning the neighborhood.

I do not need many, these are intended specifically for carry ammo, realistically I only require 18 rounds (the cylinder plus 2 speed loaders), however I will make extra for testing, practice, and reserve. Should I require more I will have the load data.

I am not particularly concerned about the virus, provided you are not 70+ the death rate is what? 0.02%? I’m more concerned with the flu It’s so mild 40-60% of people with it never even get symptoms. Where the virus is an issue is the reaction to it.
 
...I would really like to have the most effective defensive ammo possible, preferably before looters start burning the neighborhood.

I do not need many..I only require 18 rounds (the cylinder plus 2 speed loaders)...

Your requirements and logic seem skewed to me.

I don't know how much time you have spent in a combat zone. I don't know if you hunt. But I will say, that when it comes to killing things, "Where you shoot them is way more important than what you shoot them with!"

(Tank main gun against troops in the open is a notable exception.)
 
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