Issues generating a fullhouse 357 load

[venomballistics]

Best I got was from AA7 maxxed at 10.1 but was far from a heavy load, thanks for the input and ill try some H110 or 2400

sounds about right.
Look at the velocity yield of the powders in the manual.
Choose the one that gets closest to your objectives with a little room to spare.
What you have done so far is the same as trying to make a top end speed run without shifting past 3rd gear.
H110, AA#9, 300MP, LILGUN, And N110 are the overdrive gears your looking for.

 

[fredj338]

So far I tried max published loads using Unique, HP38, AA7 and BE86 behind a Missouri Hi Tek 158LSWC. Shoots like a cap gun out of my 686 6". Are true magnum loads possible or just jump to H110 or 2400. ( I cant find any right now or I would just buy them.)

Thnks

You aren't getting full power loads with any of those powders. 2400, aa#9, h110/w296' lilgun, all will give true full power lads in the 357mag.

 

[Nevada Ed]

One of the powders that you used in my 686 6" with a 158 gr
Lswc got 1320 fps..................

How fast do you want to push those lead bullets ?

 

[rwsmith]

Really???

BTW, a fairly complete list of powders suitable for 357 Magnum in order of preference is as follows. Alliant 2400, Hodgdon H110 (also known as Winchester 296), Vihtavouri N110, Accurate #9, Vihtavouri N105, IMR 4227 and SR4759, and Alliant Power Pro 300-MP. Powders more suited to 44 magnum that may work for the 357 in a pinch - Accurate 4100, Hodgdon Lilgun, Accurate 5744.
.

SR4759?? Really?? I'll have to look into that, just out of curiosity. I had noticed that for a rifle powder it was FAST but for a pistol powder it is SLOW.

 

[BruceM]

2400 is nearly full power and more versatile than 296/110.

Yah, right. 2400 in reduced loads leads to a lot more of those nasty little unburnt kernels to get into everything including under the extractor. It's usefulness in reduced loads is grossly overrated, especially with the number of good mid-speed propellants on the market. H110/W296 has ALWAYS been intended for full power magnum loads and it performs in these applications magnificently. Who gives a turkey if it can't be used for reduced velocity handloads. Could it possibly be that the smartest (and correct) approach is to use the correct propellant for the intended application instead of trying to make so many things into a "jack of all trades". Those which become these "jacks" are almost universally also then become "masters of no trades".

Bruce

 

[alwslate]

I don't know who's "maximum" published data you are using but actual
Winchester data listed 6.7 grs as maximum with a 158 gr lead bullet.
This is at magnum pressure but velocity will still lag well behind what
2400 will deliver. Hodgdon longshot will get you over 1200 fps out of a
4" barrel but for top velocity you need about 15 grs 2400 with a mag
primer under your 158 gr cast bullet.

 

[scooter123]

SR4759?? Really?? I'll have to look into that, just out of curiosity. I had noticed that for a rifle powder it was FAST but for a pistol powder it is SLOW.

I have a friend who is loading for the 45 Raptor (a 460 Magnum in a modified 308 case) and may have thrown that one in due to getting "blonder" as I get older. However an older IMR manual lists 4759 as a Magnum Handgun powder and it's burn rate is similar to Lilgun, so with a heavy bullet it may be useable in a 357 Magnum. The big issue would be finding data for it because apparently Hodgdon believes it's only a small bore rifle powder. Since current data can't be found it's best to scrub this one off the list.

 

[jwalts27]

sounds about right.
Look at the velocity yield of the powders in the manual.
Choose the one that gets closest to your objectives with a little room to spare.
What you have done so far is the same as trying to make a top end speed run without shifting past 3rd gear.
H110, AA#9, 300MP, LILGUN, And N110 are the overdrive gears your looking for.

Is Lil Gun safe to use in a handgun? I was under the impression it was only recommended for carbine loads?

 

[MasterTech1960]

For me , when I want MAGNUM fun , 296 is the way to go.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Back in 2/28/2010 I tried some SR 4759 loads in my 357 6"
with a 158gr Lwc bullet just to see what would happen.

It was a mild recoiling load and accuracy was not all that bad
but there were faster powders that shot as well with half the
amount of powder.
I would rather use it in a 30-06 case with a 100gr plinker for
the grand kids to have fun shooting when they get a chance to get out.

Here is a picture of the load that shot the best in my long 6"
and a J frame snub nose............ if you are thinking of using it.
There are better powders but it can work ..............

 

[venomballistics]

Is Lil Gun safe to use in a handgun? I was under the impression it was only recommended for carbine loads?

actually its designed for the 410 shotgun.
As a result it is at an ideal burn rate for magnum handguns.
They list some data for it in the heavier weights 158 on up.

 

[mikld]

Where did this come from? He explicitly said he was looking for full power magnum loads.

You will need H110/W296, Alliant 2400, IMR 4227, AA9, etc. Check out powder manufacturers' online reloading data centers when you get a chance, if you haven't already. Also, Lyman #49 has about 100 .357 Magnum recipes.

This is where it came from;

max published loads using Unique, HP38, AA7 and BE86 behind a Missouri Hi Tek 158LSWC. Shoots like a cap gun out of my 686 6

"
To me it was a statement that the OP wanted a "Magnum feel" rather than actual performance. Nothing was said about a possible velocity, he just didn't want a "cap gun" load in his .357 Magnum...

 

[jwalts27]

actually its designed for the 410 shotgun.
As a result it is at an ideal burn rate for magnum handguns.
They list some data for it in the heavier weights 158 on up.

I will avoid Lil Gun for now. I read alot of problems with flame cutting

 

[venomballistics]

I will avoid Lil Gun for now. I read alot of problems with flame cutting

The only time I ever used it was for some 460 magnum loads.
good thing its only a 5 shot revolver.
the flash left sunspots at the indoor range. Had it been a full 6, we'd not have that single patch of usable vision to drive home with. The flame cutting claim probably does have some legs, and probably accounts for Hodgdon favoring heavy bullets to help mitigate some of it.

 

[scooter123]

IMO any of the slower Magnum powders will cause some flame cutting in a revolver. One way to mitigate that is to use a flame shield like that seen in the scandium framed revolvers. Really wouldn't be too hard to do, just cut a bit of stainless steel shim stock to the correct shape and fold it so that it will stay in place. However, there would be some head scratching involved in getting the shape correct because S&W doesn't post them for sale in the Web Store.

Personally this is why I like using Accurate #9 for my 357 Magnum handgun loads. It's fast enough that it doesn't produce excessive flash or muzzle blast with 140-158 grain bullets while slow enough to allow a somewhat moderate load to produce 1200 fps from a 6 inch barrel. I also don't build handgun loads that are wrist wreckers or anywhere near maximum. Because I'm old enough to start having some twinges and because Magnum cases are hard enough to obtain that I like to moderate the pressures to extend case life.

 

[muddocktor]

I will avoid Lil Gun for now. I read alot of problems with flame cutting

I've read the same thing too, so I have been steering clear of it myself. I imagine it would do just fine in a carbine or non-vented barrel such as my Coonan Classic though, as the flame and powder are contained inside the barrel until it reaches the muzzle.

 

[fredj338]

Yah, right. 2400 in reduced loads leads to a lot more of those nasty little unburnt kernels to get into everything including under the extractor. It's usefulness in reduced loads is grossly overrated, especially with the number of good mid-speed propellants on the market. H110/W296 has ALWAYS been intended for full power magnum loads and it performs in these applications magnificently. Who gives a turkey if it can't be used for reduced velocity handloads. Could it possibly be that the smartest (and correct) approach is to use the correct propellant for the intended application instead of trying to make so many things into a "jack of all trades". Those which become these "jacks" are almost universally also then become "masters of no trades".

Bruce

Not so much "reduced" loads as in midrange, but certainly works better for off the top loads than H110 & uses less to get there. Why I have gone back to 2400 for my magnums. I rarely shoot the top end loads, just beats the poop out of the gun. You have to run Unqiue or sim powders pretty hard to get to a 2400 load that is just a bit off the top end. Lower pressures, longer case life, still magnum vel.

 

[ironhead7544]

My 4 inch M686 made shooting full factory loads seem mild. It wasnt until I tried to get max loads from a 187gr WFNGC bullet that I "felt" a little recoil in my hand. Had to go to 1300 fps with that bullet to notice recoil. This was with a AA#9 load that I wont mention.

I had a new shooter try that load in a GP100 six inch. He said there was no real recoil.

Try one of the light weight Magnum revolvers if you want a "sting" in your hand.

Or just switch to a M29. Then you can dial up as much recoil as you would like.

2400 and IMR 4227 were designed for the pistol sized rifle cartridges like the 44-40, 38-40 and 32-20. They burn clean in rifle length barrels.

IIRC, WW296 was designed for the 410 shotgun and M1 30 Carbine. It can Squibb if you dont have enough powder. Works at top loads nearly touching the base of the bullet.

AA#9 burns clean with the proper charge. Wont get residue under the extractor like the others. Probably best if you might have to make a quick reload.

 

[shil]

May I suggest trying IMR4227? I think it's a bit of a "sleeper". My supplier had it in stock when there was no W296/H110, 2400, or A#9 to be seen. I tried it in my 686 and liked it. I don't own a chronograph so I have no idea of actual velocities, but maximum loads had perceptibly less flash and blast than that generated by the other powders mentioned. Burned clean for me, too. Another possibility is Vihtavuori N110. Nice powder but expensive! Good luck and be safe!

 

[venomballistics]

May I suggest trying IMR4227? I think it's a bit of a "sleeper". My supplier had it in stock when there was no W296/H110, 2400, or A#9 to be seen. I tried it in my 686 and liked it. I don't own a chronograph so I have no idea of actual velocities, but maximum loads had perceptibly less flash and blast than that generated by the other powders mentioned. Burned clean for me, too. Another possibility is Vihtavuori N110. Nice powder but expensive! Good luck and be safe!

This one warrants a like.
I have not gotten a round tuit yet but a fair number of folks here REALLY got this load to sing like Kathy Mateya.
great power and one hole groups in other area codes.
It's a must try.