Issues loading 357 HBWC

[S&W Rover]

I've had a problem similar to the OP's, when loading DEWC bullets in .38 Special. Wonderful bullets with small loads -- but sometimes hard to fit into the case, doing the same thing the OP showed in his pictures. Sometimes a thin shaving of lead goes down the outside of the case, other times the rim of the case is crushed downward.

A possible solution for the OP -- addressing the problem differently, but perhaps involving less effort -- might be to try a different brand of wadcutters (i.e., sell the ones on hand and replace them). he OP mentioned some of the bullets he is using are .359 at their base -- whereas many manufacturers specify .358 for their lead ".357" bullets and presumably their bullets meet that measurement, making it a little easier to fit them into the case -- if it is belled just enough.

 

[Wise_A]

Wise A, 357 brass doesn't shorten with use, it grows. And the same for 44 Mag brass too. It doesn't react like semi auto brass.

Rimmed, rimless, necked--they all do both, depending on conditions. Sometimes I'm shocked at what people subject their brass to. Ordinarily, though--yes, you'd be more apt to see it in a mouth-headspacing rimless case.

Try this:
Get a Lyman "M" expander die.
It's made for loading lead and expands the case deeper.
What I use to load 357 wadcutters, Never a problem.
The RCBS die is made for loading jacketed bullets.
More "flare" isn't the solution.

I would typically agree, but the problem isn't that the expansion/belling isn't deep enough, it's that the case mouth isn't opened up wide enough. I'd have to be there to run my Finger-ometer over them, but the cases in the picture barely look like they've been expanded at all.

 

[domyalex]

Yeah, I believe it's a combination of slightly larger projectile bases along with shorter cases not getting enough flare (longer cases work just fine). This would explain why I get a ~2% failure rate, rather than all the time.

All right, I give up, got my Lee case length gauge and started trimming away =D

 

[mikld]

FWIW, I don't remember case lengths of revolver cartridges varying more than .008"-.010" (when I did measure some which has been many years ago) and that much is negligible as far as flaring is concerned unless the minimum amount of flare is being used on the "long" cases. I started reloading 38 Specials in 1969 and 357 in 1975 can't remember trimming one in all that time. I have measured some just out of curiosity and have never had a problem with roll crimping, profile crimping, taper crimping or flaring. Case lengths for revolver cartridges just aren't all that critical...

For the OP's problem, K.I.S.S. and just add some flare...

 

[muddocktor]

mikld, I've easily seen .020+ difference in my 357 brass, depending on how many times it's been reloaded and the power they were loaded at. I've been loading 357 and 38 Special since 1975 myself. I guess it all depends on how much stress you put on the cases as to how much they will grow. I will say that in my younger (and dumber) years, just about everything I loaded was pretty hot; when they get hard to extract back off .2 grains and call it good.

 

[domyalex]

Well, Houston...

158gr TC from the same brand are perfectly fine; time to send an email...

 

[DumpStick]

Oh my .......

What brand were those bullets ?

 

[domyalex]

CamPro, made in Canada. I like them because they have a 0.008" plate tickness, so they can be pushed up to 1500fps. I have loaded thousand of them in 9mm, .45 and .357 TC with very good results. But not these ones...

 

[DBenn]

domyalex I ran into a box like that several weeks ago.

Ended up with a Large Tims cup filled to overflowing with slightly deformed Tops and oversized bases. Those oversized bases were causing the same thing in my cases.
This was the lot #213767, it's on one end of the box and they will require it.


I got a hold of Patrick at CamPro and eventually after a few pictures they sent me a box of 500 to replace them.
Let me know if you need his email and I will PM it to you.


Since then I bought another box and so far all the one's I randomly checked are ok.

 

[domyalex]

Thanks DBenn!

My lot is 218115, bought some 3 weeks ago. May I ask what lot # did you get afterwards and was ok?

 

[Daver7]

For sure contact the manufacturer, but I would try running those through a sizing die. Maybe a Lee Lee Bullet Lube Sizing Die Kit

 

[DBenn]

Thanks DBenn!

My lot is 218115, bought some 3 weeks ago. May I ask what lot # did you get afterwards and was ok?

lot#218108 is what I bought in another city as the original retailer had only the original lot # in stock.
I haven't looked at the bottom half of the box but so far all looks good.
The 500 replacements have no lot #.

 

[DBenn]

For sure contact the manufacturer, but I would try running those through a sizing die. Maybe a Lee Lee Bullet Lube Sizing Die Kit

Not sure if that would hurt the Copper Plating or not but mine seemed to have the copper plating pool around the skirting on the hollow base. The rest of the bullet was .358 but I did have a few that were .360 -> .361.

 

[Hasbeen1945]

Try this:
Get a Lyman "M" expander die.
It's made for loading lead and expands the case deeper.
What I use to load 357 wadcutters, Never a problem.
The RCBS die is made for loading jacketed bullets.
More "flare" isn't the solution.
Plated bullets are best treated like lead.

The newer RCBS dies have a M type expander. These work real well but you should be able to start the bullet into the case by hand.

 

[Jupiter01]

Try this:
Get a Lyman "M" expander die.
It's made for loading lead and expands the case deeper.

Plated bullets are best treated like lead.

"J" style bullets are not fragile except the lead nose, but plated are lead, just with a soft coating on them, and do have to be treated gently.

.38 Special/357 Magnum RCBS dies now have an "M-style" flaring plug that works just like my Lyman M die. I read that they had changed from the old-style flaring plug, and called to buy one. The nice lady sent me one...free! Can't say fairer than that! It seems to work well, just like the Lyman!

 

[TAROMAN]

I read that they had changed from the old-style flaring plug, and called to buy one. The nice lady sent me one...free! Can't say fairer than that! It seems to work well, just like the Lyman!

I must have a dozen M dies.
Wonder what her response would be?

 

[rwsmith]

You could try....

.... raising the sizing die so that it doesn't close down the mouth of the case quite so much. Generally resizing dies close down the case more than for what is needed to hold the bullet.

My favorite solution is the M die, though.

 

[Kiwi cop]

I load 148 gn plated HBWC's in both .38 S&W and .38 Special loads using both a turret and progressive press. While round nose, truncated cone and semi-wadcutters move up into the seating die if tilted slightly in the case mouth I have found the HBWC must be verticals. If they lean off the vertcle the case mouth ends up crushed, even if the case is flared enough to seat the base of the projectile correctly.

I have now developed the habit when loading HBWC's of ensuring the projectile is guided up into the seating die with the hand that places the projectile into the case. No more crushed case mouths.

 

[domyalex]

Manufacturer replied to my email, and they are going to ship 2k projectiles free of charge. Happy to deal with reputable businesses!

 

[DBenn]

Manufacturer replied to my email, and they are going to ship 2k projectiles free of charge. Happy to deal with reputable businesses!

WOW 2k I only got 500 but then I only had a large Timmies cup of bad ones. Can't complain about it though as it's better than nothing.