Issues loading 357 HBWC

[domyalex]

Hello all,

I have been reloading for a few years now (mostly 9mm, but also .45, 223 and 308) but only recently started loading 357 and I'm facing some issues. I'm loading plated HBWC but fom time to time (2 or 3 times per 100) I'm getting some crushed cases when seating (I seat and crimp separately). I have loaded 2k TC 357 and never had an issue.
I have tried expanding a bit more, but the issue persists. I'm using RCBS dies with Lee FCD. I currently have the round nose seater plug in, but I see that both seater plugs engage the bullet the same way on the outer rim.
Am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks

 

[Alk8944]

Set the expander slightly deeper to increase the flare. You need to flare enough that a bullet can be started in the case mouth jest enough that it won't catch the bullet base.

 

[Nevada Ed]

+1 on more belling of the case.

Mostly if you are loading new or once fired brass from another weapon.
I was loading 100 new once fired brass and the first five test loads were
"Funny" with the bullet not seating right.

The cases were almost spotless, close to new, which threw me a curve.
I had to resize and bell the case before things worked out.
Without the resizing, the case was too large from firing to put
enough pressure on the bullet.

I also noticed that one bullet took a lot of pressure to seat.
I took the other 95 cases and increased the belling for later loads to work without any problems.

There are no short cuts........
Now I know that I need to size all of my acquired brass before using it......... then a case flare that is enough for the bullet to start, not just sit on top of the case.


Good shooting.

 

[forestswin]

Adding a little to what's been said...
As you increase the flare, try seating the bullets by hand, off the press.

For some bullets, the case should be expanded enough for the bullet to firmly stay in the case and not force it on the press.

The whole bullet depth is being seated.....so, it's expanding a pretty good length of the case.

I hope you get it to work.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

When you put the bullet in the case,does it sit slightly in the case on all of its circumference?
Are your cases new or used?If used and they are not the same lenght,you are to get the shorter(less used)ones not flared enough.
Qc

 

[mikld]

Yep, as the fellers said above, more flare. Just looking at the pics show the case is being pushed down by the bullet base. Perhaps in addition to more flare a touch with a chamfer tool on the mouth will aid in the bullet seating...

 

[domyalex]

Thanks all for your replies, much appreciated! I tried flaring a bit more and the issue is less frequent but still happens.

At this point I believie Qc Pistolero is right (merci!): I have noticed that sometimes I have a slightly shorter case and I can tell as I place the bullet that it is sitting more tightly. Sure enough out comes the crushed cased.

Really not looking forward to trimming 1000 pieces, alas seems the right thing to do at this point (mixed brass, fired 1-2 times).

WCs allow me to use less powder, but they sure are a pain in the butt compared to the TC 158gr I was using before, which worked fine without having to worry about case length, as the cannelure is pretty generous.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Thanks all for your replies, much appreciated! I tried flaring a bit more and the issue is less frequent but still happens.

At this point I believie Qc Pistolero is right (merci!): I have noticed that sometimes I have a slightly shorter case and I can tell as I place the bullet that it is sitting more tightly. Sure enough out comes the crushed cased.

Really not looking forward to trimming 1000 pieces, alas seems the right thing to do at this point (mixed brass, fired 1-2 times).

WCs allow me to use less powder, but they sure are a pain in the butt compared to the TC 158gr I was using before, which worked fine without having to worry about case length, as the cannelure is pretty generous.

You are welcome my friend!
Qc

 

[forestswin]

As an alternative, you could sort your cases by headstamp.....hoping that like headstamps have the
Same case wall thickness....then sort by case length
Then adjust dies for each group.

Or trim 50 to 100 cases and see if that resolves your issue

Or run them all through the case trimmer at trim to length......it's likely some will not be trimmed at all
But they would all be the same length...... and if a length is cut off......as mikld says....chamfering the inside and deburring the outside helps

And you can lock down your dies for one length.

Regardless of trimming the cases.....you'll still need to expand the case mouth enough to start the bullet in the case.

 

[Wise_A]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't ammunition loaded with 140-gr Hornady FTX ammunition, as well as Leverevolution ammo, trimmed to 1.240" to account for the longer bullet profile? Normal .357 Magnum brass is trimmed to anywhere between 1.280-1.290", so it might not be immediately obvious.

 

[Nightowl]

The round nose seating punch may not have anything to do with the issue, as I agree that more flare is needed, but I would put the wadcutter punch in anyway. I suppose it is possible that the round nose punch could catch an edge and misdirect the bullet.

 

[domyalex]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't ammunition loaded with 140-gr Hornady FTX ammunition, as well as Leverevolution ammo, trimmed to 1.240" to account for the longer bullet profile? Normal .357 Magnum brass is trimmed to anywhere between 1.280-1.290", so it might not be immediately obvious.

You are onto something here. Most of my brass is in the 1.282-1.286 range; those hard to seat are often as low as 1.273-1.276 Is this... normal?
I can work around this by flaring more, but then I'm over-working the longer cases. Throw away short brass or resize a _lot_ of pieces, hummm.
Base of the projectiles sometime is as high as .359, so combined with the shorter cases it can lead to the issue I think.

 

[DumpStick]

I would suggest trimming the cases. If you don't start with consistent cases, how can you get a consistent product ?

Once the brass is all a more consistent length, you can get a consistent crimp.

I trim all the "new to me" cases I get. Decap, tumble, size, trim/chamfer. It's somewhat of a pain, but normally, with straight-wall revolver cases, is something that needs done only once.

I use a Lee hand trimmer, and chuck the case holder into a cordless drill. It's cumbersome and slow, but it's cheap. I plan to replace this trimmer with something else in the future. I've only been using this method since the late 1980s, so I don't want to move too quickly to change it....

According to my notes, the Lee hand trimmer trims to 1.278".

 

[Wise_A]

You are onto something here. Most of my brass is in the 1.282-1.286 range; those hard to seat are often as low as 1.273-1.276 Is this... normal?
I can work around this by flaring more, but then I'm over-working the longer cases. Throw away short brass or resize a _lot_ of pieces, hummm.
Base of the projectiles sometime is as high as .359, so combined with the shorter cases it can lead to the issue I think.

*shrugs* I don't load .357--I just know me some bizarre case trivia. It's also possible that the cases in question are work-shortened, which is a thing that happens.

Sorting by length would be an option. You wouldn't have to trim it or pitch it, just sort it out.

I would honestly just expand a bit more. Look at it this way--you've already roached a bunch of free brass and some bullets trying to expand as little as possible, because you're worried about cases failing from using them too much. You're already exactly where you didn't want to go, and you're out some bullets.

I expand as much as I need to get the bullet to set down into the case. I don't want the bullet to sit on top of the mouth at all--I really want the whole base down inside. Expand as much as you need, up until the case mouth starts "trumpeting".

I've got ~150 pieces of factory Starline .44 Mag brass in circulation, atm (out of a 500-box). Those 150 cases have been loaded a total of 1000 times between them--500 plinking loads, and 500 full-power loads. I haven't had a single one fail, although I'm thinking about dumping the batch. The primer pockets are starting to feel a bit loose.

 

[4barrel]

Why are the sides of the plated bullets so ugly? I had a problem with some 200 grain plated 357 bullets putting a wrinkle in the case. I re tumbled the brass and added a little liquid car wax and that slicked it up.

 

[H Richard]

Set your expander to flare the case for the correct amount for the "shortest case". The longer cases may be a little over flared, but as long as they fit in the seating die there shouldn't be a problem.

I decided long ago that I only put HBWC bullets in 38 cases, as they shouldn't be shot at velocities greater than 38 Special, (and really not that fast). Cleaning the chamber after shooting 38's in a 357 chamber isn't a problem.

 

[mikld]

I'd say put as much flare as needed to easily seat bullets in all your cases. Get good shootable ammo now, and worry about case life later. Cases may scrape the sides of the seating die with a lot of flare, but that won't hurt anything. The excess flare will be taken care of with the crimp. Bullets need a smooth, easy "entry" into the case so just flare as much as needed (you can't stuff a .358" plug into ta .355" tube without some "entry way"; a tapered flare). And 357 brass isn't hard to find so if you only get 15 reloads rather than 20, at least you will be able to shoot 'em...

 

[TAROMAN]

Try this:
Get a Lyman "M" expander die.
It's made for loading lead and expands the case deeper.
What I use to load 357 wadcutters, Never a problem.
The RCBS die is made for loading jacketed bullets.
More "flare" isn't the solution.
Plated bullets are best treated like lead.

 

[muddocktor]

*shrugs* I don't load .357--I just know me some bizarre case trivia. It's also possible that the cases in question are work-shortened, which is a thing that happens.

Sorting by length would be an option. You wouldn't have to trim it or pitch it, just sort it out.............(trucated)

Wise A, 357 brass doesn't shorten with use, it grows. And the same for 44 Mag brass too. It doesn't react like semi auto brass. As to the rest of your post I agree. I'm also thinking that domyalex needs to trim his cases to a uniform length or sort for different lengths. And a little more flare won't hurt either.

 

[SLT223]

So far we are assuming proper shell plate index. Im not at all familiar with your press. Is the shell plate indexing in such a manner that the case and bullet are properly aligned to the seating die? Any issues under the resizing die?