NFrameFred
Member
In my enthusiasm I posted this the other day, thinking it belonged somewhere else (that got me dinged 
) but the Big Gorilla told me to post it here in the lounge with the admonition to responders "to stay off general politics" . . . HIS WORDS EXACTLY.
As much as many want to believe that it is outdated, the Second Amendment to the Constitution was specifically placed in the BILL OF RIGHTS (Inalienable rights we naturally have without question, NOT granted by the government but recognized and codified in the document as PRE-EXISTING and not open to change at the fickle wind of public opinion or governmental abuse)
One of the Founders, Tench Coxe, said when asked what arms the Second Amendment protects, said “Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American.”
Tench Coxe - contemporary of Hamilton, Madison, Jay and other writers of "the Federalist" papers - editorialist, Confederation Congressman, and first assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Hamilton
It is educational, instructive and a valuable use of your time to actually read and study the writings and debates of the day in historical context by such men, as they were well known in their day and the reason many of the things in our Constitution came to be included after much spirited deliberation.
Reading the debates of the time, it is a disservice to many great Americans to think of the Declaration signers as the sole 'founding fathers'.
As upsetting and unpopular as it may be to them, those who today try to conflate the Second Amendment to only the powers and members of the National Guard are woefully and/or willingly ignorant and (in my opinion) are well meaning wishful thinking useful idiots . . . or liars . . . or both.
HOWEVER - those that keep pushing the boundaries of good taste, consideration for their fellow citizen's concerns, and plain old common sense do themselves and the rest of us no favors in fighting some battles that ARE open to debate among folks of good intent; but the original intent is clear - the citizens of this country were intended (indeed, encouraged) to have the will, the means, and the hardware to stand against tyranny at the hands of their own government. And that not to be diminished by popular opinion or government coercion. I feel quite sure the argument that "they gave us the power to change all that at the ballot box without revolution" would not cut much ice with the Founders if they could see how the intent has been subverted and denied by the very government in charge in the modern age we have achieved.
That our representatives and educators actively seek to subvert that intent and misinform the populace on its origin and meanings is criminal.
We must educate ourselves and accept facts that many may find personally disagreeable, but nonetheless true. I find it confounding - comparing gun owners who have bought into some of the propaganda to those in church I have known that profess to believe certain things, but abandon the tenets of that belief and vote their wallets and/or "personal feelings" on such matters instead.
“We Must All Hang Together, or Most Assuredly, We Will All Hang Separately” Benjamin Franklin made this statement at the signing of the Declaration of Independence in 1776.
Thomas Jefferson said "It does me no harm if my neighbor declares there is no god, or that there are twenty gods . . . it neither picks my pocket or breaks my leg".
However, in this instance, concerning our 'neighbors' in the gun rights community who insist we must compromise on the clear original intent of the Founders, I submit that attitude does, indeed, break all our collective "legs".
) but the Big Gorilla told me to post it here in the lounge with the admonition to responders "to stay off general politics" . . . HIS WORDS EXACTLY.As much as many want to believe that it is outdated, the Second Amendment to the Constitution was specifically placed in the BILL OF RIGHTS (Inalienable rights we naturally have without question, NOT granted by the government but recognized and codified in the document as PRE-EXISTING and not open to change at the fickle wind of public opinion or governmental abuse)
One of the Founders, Tench Coxe, said when asked what arms the Second Amendment protects, said “Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American.”
Tench Coxe - contemporary of Hamilton, Madison, Jay and other writers of "the Federalist" papers - editorialist, Confederation Congressman, and first assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Hamilton
It is educational, instructive and a valuable use of your time to actually read and study the writings and debates of the day in historical context by such men, as they were well known in their day and the reason many of the things in our Constitution came to be included after much spirited deliberation.
Reading the debates of the time, it is a disservice to many great Americans to think of the Declaration signers as the sole 'founding fathers'.
As upsetting and unpopular as it may be to them, those who today try to conflate the Second Amendment to only the powers and members of the National Guard are woefully and/or willingly ignorant and (in my opinion) are well meaning wishful thinking useful idiots . . . or liars . . . or both.
HOWEVER - those that keep pushing the boundaries of good taste, consideration for their fellow citizen's concerns, and plain old common sense do themselves and the rest of us no favors in fighting some battles that ARE open to debate among folks of good intent; but the original intent is clear - the citizens of this country were intended (indeed, encouraged) to have the will, the means, and the hardware to stand against tyranny at the hands of their own government. And that not to be diminished by popular opinion or government coercion. I feel quite sure the argument that "they gave us the power to change all that at the ballot box without revolution" would not cut much ice with the Founders if they could see how the intent has been subverted and denied by the very government in charge in the modern age we have achieved.
That our representatives and educators actively seek to subvert that intent and misinform the populace on its origin and meanings is criminal.
We must educate ourselves and accept facts that many may find personally disagreeable, but nonetheless true. I find it confounding - comparing gun owners who have bought into some of the propaganda to those in church I have known that profess to believe certain things, but abandon the tenets of that belief and vote their wallets and/or "personal feelings" on such matters instead.
“We Must All Hang Together, or Most Assuredly, We Will All Hang Separately” Benjamin Franklin made this statement at the signing of the Declaration of Independence in 1776.
Thomas Jefferson said "It does me no harm if my neighbor declares there is no god, or that there are twenty gods . . . it neither picks my pocket or breaks my leg".
However, in this instance, concerning our 'neighbors' in the gun rights community who insist we must compromise on the clear original intent of the Founders, I submit that attitude does, indeed, break all our collective "legs".
