It's Official: Texas has achieved Third-World Status

[vonn]

All I know is that I have never seen cold like this in Texas that lasted this long in the almost 50 years living in my house. Long standing records have been broken state wide and caught most completely off guard. I am sure it will hit the fan! Think the infrastructure needs updated in the entire U.S. if our fearless leaders were doing the job they are hired to do. 3 days of no heat with below freezing temperatures will have me sending a lot of emails to everyone I can .

 

[delcrossv]

Operating company (not the utility ) generally walks away, and you get this:

IIRC we're up to 14,000 abandoned turbines now in the US.

 

[swsig]

OP here. Power came back full-time at 12:30 am. Temperature is up 30 degrees to a balmy 23. Preliminary analysis is that about 40% of Texas' generators failed. Of those generators that failed, 1/3 were wind powered, and 2/3 were coal or natural gas powered. So there's plenty of blame to go around. Hopefully, our crack power overseeing group, the Energy Reliability (sic!) Council of Texas (ERCOT) has learned that preparing for the average case scenario doesn't work.

 

[rockquarry]

All I know is that I have never seen cold like this in Texas that lasted this long in the almost 50 years living in my house. Long standing records have been broken state wide and caught most completely off guard. I am sure it will hit the fan! Think the infrastructure needs updated in the entire U.S. if our fearless leaders were doing the job they are hired to do. 3 days of no heat with below freezing temperatures will have me sending a lot of emails to everyone I can .

Emails are easy and convenient for the sender, but much less effective in getting a point across than using real paper and a stamp and addressing a real paper envelope to a CEO or president, or better yet, both. From years of doing this, I almost always get a response, and soon.

These people figure if you go to the trouble to actually mail something, you're very serious about your complaint and you won't go away. They don't want to hear from you or any other customer, but sometimes they're obligated and will respond so you won't bother them again.

It's more trouble, but try it, it works. Much, much more effective than a pile of emails.

 

[Protocall_Design]

I have a feeling that once we are into warmer weather, all this will be forgotten by ERCOT and it will be back to business as usual.

 

[rockquarry]

I have a feeling that once we are into warmer weather, all this will be forgotten by ERCOT and it will be back to business as usual.

You're probably right. Few want to let actual work interfere with their careers.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

Where are these wind mills manufactured?

 

[Ziggy2525]

Read the IAEA report, so I'll intersperse some stuff.
...
...
Waste from solar panels and windmills is the issue that everyone seems to ignore. Probably because it's happening in China and not here. Rare earth refining and solar panel production is nasty stuff.

That said, Molten salt is a better bet for grid level power that PWR/BWR's.

Here's a quote from the IAEA report intro that that I thought was telling...

There were also certain weaknesses in plant design, in emergency preparedness and response arrangements and in planning for the management of a severe accident. There was an assumption that there would never be a loss of all electrical power at a nuclear power plant for more than a short period. The possibility of several reactors at the same facility suffering a crisis at the same time was not considered. And insufficient provision was made for the possibility of a nuclear accident occurring at the same time as a major natural disaster.

That doesn't seem like everything was all good, it was just an overaction by the Japanese government. I agree wind and solar aren't great solutions. Neither is building more PWR's.

 

[swsig]

I have a feeling that once we are into warmer weather, all this will be forgotten by ERCOT and it will be back to business as usual.

*Sigh*
Sad, but true. Ten years ago, during another colder-than-usual Texas winter where energy blackouts were imposed, a thorough analysis was done that resulted in recommendations to ERCOT to prevent a re-occurrence. I'm not optimistic that a new investigation will be more impactful as long as cheap energy has priority over reliable energy.

However, Texas is always trying to lure corporations to relocate here. What may motivate state officials to make permanent improvements would be the reluctance of those companies to move to Texas until the possibility of events like this is eliminated. As another poster said, follow the money.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Where are these wind mills manufactured?

From the web:

"U.S.-based GE Renewable Energy has a turbine manufacturing facility in Pensacola, Florida and a blade facility in New Orleans, Louisiana, as well as an advanced manufacturing research center in South Carolina. GE also recently acquired LM Wind Power, which has two large-scale blade facilities in Arkansas and North Dakota."

 

[Muss Muggins]

Where are these wind mills manufactured?

All I know is that I see tractor trailer convoys on north bound 55 here in flyover country constantly. Four flatbeds, three each carrying a blade, and one carrying a hub . . .

 

[JDBoardman]

Thirty years ago when I worked for an electric utility. the standard was to have spinning reserve (plants that are up and able to run at full power, the turbines are turning, but mot generating power) equal to the single largest plant on-line. Thus, if something happened to a generating plant to take it down, it's power could be replaced almost instantly. No blackouts, no power limitation requests, nothing; just dependable electricity. Then some bright young MBA's got on the Public Utilities Commission staff and started pushing to cut costs by eleminating reserve generation capacity. Suddenly, the formerly very depe3ndable grid started suffering power capacity issues. The public complained to their legislators, and to grease that squeeky wheel, they PUC deregulated the electricity system. Utilities were forced to divest themselves of all generating capacity (well;, they could keep their nukes, because nobody wanted them) and the utilities would purchase power from the State grid operator to resell to the customers.

Well, such fine, dependable system operators as Enron jumped in and bought the generating plants at fire sale prices. They then proceeded to manipulate the system to maximize the cost of generating power and thus their profits. The utilities were forced to buy power at a cost well above the allowable sale price to the consumer,so maintenance of the distribution infrastructure was cut way back. Power lines started to fail due to deferred maintenance, substations were overstressed due to customer base growth without the cash available to add capaqcity. Blackouts followed, with summer power reductions in the south, and winter shortages in the north. But the bright young MBA's had rid the system of the vampire generation over capacity, and they got high performance reviews and large bonuses. Meanwhile, the utilities got all the blame for the problems, their stock prices fell, and dividends were reduced or curtailed entirely. Utility stocks went from a gold plated "widows and orphans" secure investment to junk stock.

Thus the tale of woe from one state's deregulation fiasco; now we in Texas are seeing a repeat due to dependence on unproven technology - looked like a good idea at the time, but who woulda guessed it would freeze in the winter or not function when covered with snow?

 

[delcrossv]

Here's a quote from the IAEA report intro that that I thought was telling...



That doesn't seem like everything was all good, it was just an overaction by the Japanese government. I agree wind and solar aren't great solutions. Neither is building more PWR's.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a light water reactor fan. That said, per your quote, Tepco didn't think there'd be a tsunami (although the possibility was pointed out to them). The governmental overreaction was in preemptively moving civilians from an area with minimal contamination. That action, not the accident, caused some loss of life.

Also, just to get the nomenclature correct, The Fukushima reactors were Boiling Water Reactors (BWR's) not Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR's). The only major PWR failure was Three Mile Island.

Either way, LWR's are great for ships and subs, not for 3GWth base load power plants. Decay heat removal being the major issue with them.

Compare Fukushima with what happened when the cooling was turned off at EBR-II (Sodium cooled fast reactor) Molten salt can be set up to behave similarly.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp1Xja6HlIU&feature=emb_logo[/ame]

 

[swsig]

I don't see Texas' defective wind generators as a political issue, but more of a technical issue. Maybe Texan windmill operators should consult Alaskan operators, where they are making them work:

Alaska's experience shows benefits — and challenges — of wind energy in the Arctic - ArcticToday

 

[JDBoardman]

Liquid Metal Cooled Reactors, such as EBR II use, I believe,. molten Sodium as the primary coolant. I also believe that the primary coolant cycles through a heat exchanger, where the Sodium gives off its heat to water, which boils to provide steam to spin the turbine. If I am not mistaken, this is basically the design of the Fermi 1 reactor plant in Monroe, Michigan.

The issue I do not understand is how the potential for Na-H2O reaction is dealt with. I still vividly remember a Chem lab demonstration where a chunk of sodium was tossed into a sink full of water. Rather than a hissing and spinning of the sodium across the surface of the water, an ear-splitting blast occurred, which splashed water everywhere, knocked ceiling tiles down, and in general left a strong desire to keep sodium and water far apart. So when a heat exchanger tube fails, which it will, allowing hot, molted sodium and water to interact, why is this no concern?

 

[Ziggy2525]

....
Neither is building more PWR's.

....
Also, just to get the nomenclature correct, The Fukushima reactors were Boiling Water Reactors (BWR's) not Pressurized Water Reactors (PWR's). The only major PWR failure was Three Mile Island.
...

The BWR an hour south of me seems to be working OK, but I haven't heard anyone talking about building new BWR's. There has been chatter about Advanced PWR's moving forward.

There have been some near misses with PWR's. The NRC called the fire at Calhoun while the plant was flooded during the 2011 Missouri River deluge "one of the most serious safety incidents in recent years." It shut down the plant for three years.

IMO, PWR's, traditional or advanced, are not the way forward. Probably the place where we agree to disagree. Stay safe, stay warm.

 

[HardToHandle]

ERCOT are darn near the victims here.

It is lousy Texas politicians that made the rules that ERCOT was following. That is the same folk who whistled past the parallel situation that occurred almost exactly a decade ago...
https://www.nerc.com/pa/rrm/ea/February%202011%20Southwest%20Cold%20Weather%20Event/SW_Cold_Weather_Event_Final.pdf

Here is a hint - the rest of the US and Canada does not have this problem. Well excepting California... but not going there. It is almost like somebody plans for these situations and checks the plans every year - except Texas...https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/ra/Reliability%20Assessments%20DL/NERC_WRA_2020_2021.pdf

*Sigh*
Sad, but true. Ten years ago, during another colder-than-usual Texas winter where energy blackouts were imposed, a thorough analysis was done that resulted in recommendations to ERCOT to prevent a re-occurrence. I'm not optimistic that a new investigation will be more impactful as long as cheap energy has priority over reliable energy.

However, Texas is always trying to lure corporations to relocate here. What may motivate state officials to make permanent improvements would be the reluctance of those companies to move to Texas until the possibility of events like this is eliminated. As another poster said, follow the money.

 

[HardToHandle]

The BWR an hour south of me seems to be working OK, but I haven't heard anyone talking about building new BWR's. There has been chatter about Advanced PWR's moving forward.

There have been some near misses with PWR's. The NRC called the fire at Calhoun while the plant was flooded during the 2011 Missouri River deluge "one of the most serious safety incidents in recent years." It shut down the plant for three years.

IMO, PWR's, traditional or advanced, are not the way forward. Probably the place where we agree to disagree. Stay safe, stay warm.

Nuclear is pretty much dead in the US. No one is willing to wager their money to build one anymore.

Southern Companies way-overdue nuke plant has so many cost overruns that it may end up as an SEC investigation for stock price manipulation.

SCANA collapsed trying to fund a South Carolina nuclear project, wasting billions and a CEO in jail.

The Utah small modular nuclear project cannot get commercial Wall Street funding after Southern & SCANA so their only hope is the Dept of Energy becoming the lender of last resort.

I love the small modular designs, but I would not wager any of my money on a new nuke being built.

As for Fort Calhoun, that level of negligence... People should have gone to jail. The govt-owned utility was arguing to the NRC they had a fine flood plan up until the day their plant was flooded by the Missouri River.

 

[delcrossv]

The BWR an hour south of me seems to be working OK, but I haven't heard anyone talking about building new BWR's. There has been chatter about Advanced PWR's moving forward.

There have been some near misses with PWR's. The NRC called the fire at Calhoun while the plant was flooded during the 2011 Missouri River deluge "one of the most serious safety incidents in recent years." It shut down the plant for three years.

IMO, PWR's, traditional or advanced, are not the way forward. Probably the place where we agree to disagree. Stay safe, stay warm.

No I think we're in complete agreement on that.

 

[WR Moore]

ETA - Even in an operating plant, there's radiation leakage. There's some level of radioactive steam that leaks over time from valve stems and pipe seals in the containment building that gets vented to the atmosphere. There's also some leakage between the primary reactor coolant side and secondary steam side from corrosion in the steam generator tubing. Nothing's perfect.

IMO anyway, PWR's aren't really that green.

We'll ignore Fukushima for the moment. That plant wasn't properly sited.

It's hard to vent anything to the exterior atmosphere when containment is maintained at a vacuum (PWR). There is extensive instrumentation on the atmosphere inside "the can" and in the piping to internal atmosphere control. Any stray "zoomies" result in instant action. Most leaks inside are secondary side leaks, no radioactivity issues, and are speedily dealt with.

Granted, nothing's perfect but the units I'm most familiar with had one steam generator tube leak in 41 years. No contamination left the plant site, decontamination of affected secondary side components was simple and effective. Resulted in steam generator replacement on all units at that site. Note: EVERY outage, all the steam generator tubes are inspected for incipient damage. Some tubes may be sleeved and remain in service, others are blocked to prevent leakage.

BWRs are another story. There the water that gets turned to steam to run the turbines gets boiled in the reactor. ANY leak is a (potentially) radioactive leak.

A lot of the blame for outages/maintenance issues can be laid at the feet of the "consumer advocates" who ceaselessly claim that the vile, money hungry utilities are spending too much money on maintenance. Decades ago, I happened to be running a outside service crew on the west coast when my utility point of contact told me that they were in the process of halting most preventative maintenance and changing to a "run it till it breaks" model. This was being done to go along with the CAs to hopefully show them that it was cheaper to do preventive maintenance. Apparently, at least in some places, the lesson was lost.

Added edit: there is some truth in the better way to go was a standardized design. But one has to find the best design first. FWIW, Westinghouse did develop the standardized nuclear utility power plant (SNUPP) back when. They were not only standardized, they included lessons learned and were designed to facilitate maintenance. Unfortunately only 5 (IIRC) were built before the utilities quit building nukes.