I've got a rant!! You may not like it....
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Amityslim
Member
A Non-Rant
I'm not going to rant because a number of others have done it better than I could. And because I can still buy the revolvers I like and can afford. I have a couple fine 1911s and a fine Woodsman and a Seecamp, but the rest are revolvers. Those are from the 50's, 60's and 70's in most cases. I like how they were made, how they look, and how they shoot. I like the satin-finished wood and dense grain and diamonds and the checkering on the earlier ones. But I have to admit, all that aside, one of the reasons I like my '58 Model 17 is I have such great memories from 1958. I could list them but I won't bore you. If you were around then and had a good life going for yourself, you have your own. Maybe this aspect of older gun appreciation is just senior citizen rumination. But it seems like there were a lot of good things back then. Dentistry wasn't so good. A lot of people had it worse. But a lot of things were better. I miss some of those things. For me, that's part of it, too.
I'm not going to rant because a number of others have done it better than I could. And because I can still buy the revolvers I like and can afford. I have a couple fine 1911s and a fine Woodsman and a Seecamp, but the rest are revolvers. Those are from the 50's, 60's and 70's in most cases. I like how they were made, how they look, and how they shoot. I like the satin-finished wood and dense grain and diamonds and the checkering on the earlier ones. But I have to admit, all that aside, one of the reasons I like my '58 Model 17 is I have such great memories from 1958. I could list them but I won't bore you. If you were around then and had a good life going for yourself, you have your own. Maybe this aspect of older gun appreciation is just senior citizen rumination. But it seems like there were a lot of good things back then. Dentistry wasn't so good. A lot of people had it worse. But a lot of things were better. I miss some of those things. For me, that's part of it, too.
GF
Member
"...becomes just a bunch of us older geezers..."
whippersnapper.
GF
whippersnapper.
GF
rburg
Member
I have no problem complaining about stuff. I'm old and I've earned that right. I call a spade a spade. Just today I hammered S&W because some idiot on their customer service decided to tell our poster here to shoot black powder loads in his .32-20. Last week we had a similar issue with one of our posters being told not to shoot +P ammo in a model marked revolver. Those fools can't even get their own "communist party line" straight 2 days in a row.
Giving anyone, anyplace a pass for stupidity just insures more of the same. I've never been one to sugar coat things. My wife would call it tactful. I fail to see the purpose, when anyone screws up, they should hear about it. I'm willing to guess we're the most dedicated buyers they've got, but they're unwilling to listen or get their house in order.
I do buy "kind of new" S&Ws. When they produce something I really like, I generally buy one or two of them. When I've got one and they discontinue it for some reason, I start looking on the used market. I'm certainly not buying something I don't want to help them continue their misguided ways.
An even worse example is they're still located in one of the most anti-gun states. I'm guessing their phone answers are local to them and have very little knowledge of the guns and have no way of learning, nor incentive to do so. Maybe the same goes for those making some of the foolish decisions. We know they made some horrible ones back when they looked like an anti-gun company owned by an anti-gun country. Companies, not just gun companies, need to coddle and massage their customers, not offend them.
When the company that produced my Jeep messed up, I didn't buy one for about 12 years. When they corrected some of their mistakes, I bought again. When they produced a star, I even bought 2 of them over a couple of years. I didn't hesitate to complain loudly and bitterly when something was done wrong, nor do I hesitate to speak glowingly when they do something right. Now its been 7 years since I've bought one, and while willing to buy a new one, I've discovered they aren't making any in a color I would even park in my drive. So when a salesman called the other day, trying to induce me to come visit him, he got both barrels, and the advice to have him call his company and mend their ways.
At the present time there isn't a single gun made by S&W that I want to own. Not a single one (except for ones I already own one or two of.) I assure you they don't produce a semi-auto that I'd have. Its my money and I know how to vote with my feet, and billfold. They won't listen, so I very freely punish them and talk about it. And I own more guns than most people (my wife would suggest more than is healthy for a person to own!)
Giving anyone, anyplace a pass for stupidity just insures more of the same. I've never been one to sugar coat things. My wife would call it tactful. I fail to see the purpose, when anyone screws up, they should hear about it. I'm willing to guess we're the most dedicated buyers they've got, but they're unwilling to listen or get their house in order.
I do buy "kind of new" S&Ws. When they produce something I really like, I generally buy one or two of them. When I've got one and they discontinue it for some reason, I start looking on the used market. I'm certainly not buying something I don't want to help them continue their misguided ways.
An even worse example is they're still located in one of the most anti-gun states. I'm guessing their phone answers are local to them and have very little knowledge of the guns and have no way of learning, nor incentive to do so. Maybe the same goes for those making some of the foolish decisions. We know they made some horrible ones back when they looked like an anti-gun company owned by an anti-gun country. Companies, not just gun companies, need to coddle and massage their customers, not offend them.
When the company that produced my Jeep messed up, I didn't buy one for about 12 years. When they corrected some of their mistakes, I bought again. When they produced a star, I even bought 2 of them over a couple of years. I didn't hesitate to complain loudly and bitterly when something was done wrong, nor do I hesitate to speak glowingly when they do something right. Now its been 7 years since I've bought one, and while willing to buy a new one, I've discovered they aren't making any in a color I would even park in my drive. So when a salesman called the other day, trying to induce me to come visit him, he got both barrels, and the advice to have him call his company and mend their ways.
At the present time there isn't a single gun made by S&W that I want to own. Not a single one (except for ones I already own one or two of.) I assure you they don't produce a semi-auto that I'd have. Its my money and I know how to vote with my feet, and billfold. They won't listen, so I very freely punish them and talk about it. And I own more guns than most people (my wife would suggest more than is healthy for a person to own!)
Well said rburg. I've purchased over 50 S&W handguns over the last decade. The current company calling itself S&W didn't get one dime.
Like rburg, they don't currently produce a firearm I would own. Some of us consider S&W to have already gone out of business....around eleven years ago. Regards 18DAI
Like rburg, they don't currently produce a firearm I would own. Some of us consider S&W to have already gone out of business....around eleven years ago. Regards 18DAI
I think you're right! I guess I lived kind of a sheltered life. When I first came to this forum, to say I was astonished at how many of the folks here are so much more expert at running S&W than the folks doing it would have been a fantastic understatement. This is not meant to take up for poor quality when it surfaces - and it does. It always has. As long as I have owned S&W revolvers there have been quality problems. People regularly get dumb ideas and do dumb things. And in my experience, the service department as ALWAYS been erratic. But really, I wonder how many of the outspoken critics have even the slightest idea what S&W is up against in trying to get product out the door that would meet their desired criteria, let alone making enough money in the process to stay in business year after year?
As a young fellow, when I had scrimped and saved enough money to buy my own, first 44 Magnum (a three-screw gun), I was thrilled to finally receive it. Imagine my surprise when the very first thing I was told by my Dad's older friends was what an awful junker it was compared to their older 4- and 5-screw guns; how every change S&W had made cheapened the gun and made it inferior. It would have been nice if just one of them had complimented me on what was (for me) a momentous purchase, or at least on my interest to make that purchase. But, no. Today, that process seems to continue... amplified by the internet.
It's not a perfect world by any means, but, as far as I am concerned, it's a better world with S&W's doors open, rather than closed. And, incidentally, in spite of what I was told, my 3-screw 44 Magnum is still around - doing its job just as well as ever.
My next purchase will be a revolver for sure with it being the model 627 to be exact. I have 4 semi-auto's as well with 2 of them being one older Smith and one newer one. I have no fear of buying from this company if they keep producing anything like the quality I already have which has been excellent on both counts. I have had more trouble with other brands then I have ever had with any Smith product and have been shooting over 40 years. Occasionally things happen but my Smiths have been darn good to me and my older one is from the 60's.
I think you're right! I guess I lived kind of a sheltered life. When I first came to this forum, to say I was astonished at how many of the folks here are so much more expert at running S&W than the folks doing it would have been a fantastic understatement. This is not meant to take up for poor quality when it surfaces - and it does. It always has. As long as I have owned S&W revolvers there have been quality problems. People regularly get dumb ideas and do dumb things. And in my experience, the service department as ALWAYS been erratic. But really, I wonder how many of the outspoken critics have even the slightest idea what S&W is up against in trying to get product out the door that would meet their desired criteria, let alone making enough money in the process to stay in business year after year?
As a young fellow, when I had scrimped and saved enough money to buy my own, first 44 Magnum (a three-screw gun), I was thrilled to finally receive it. Imagine my surprise when the very first thing I was told by my Dad's older friends was what an awful junker it was compared to their older 4- and 5-screw guns; how every change S&W had made cheapened the gun and made it inferior. It would have been nice if just one of them had complimented me on what was (for me) a momentous purchase, or at least on my interest to make that purchase. But, no. Today, that process seems to continue... amplified by the internet.
It's not a perfect world by any means, but, as far as I am concerned, it's a better world with S&W's doors open, rather than closed. And, incidentally, in spite of what I was told, my 3-screw 44 Magnum is still around - doing its job just as well as ever.
Great post
I have limited funds and a limited "collection" which consists entirely of shooters, since I can't afford to buy a gun and not use it. When I do buy, I buy out of nostalgia, and the older Smith's just bring with them reminders of styling and fit and performance that speak to my "inner whatever" and makes it smile. Hopefully some of the currently produced models will do the same for today's generations, once they get a little longer in the tooth and seek some of their joy in the reminiscence as well as the actual function of the weapon. I personally have never owned a poorly made S&W so I can't address the problems that some have had, other than to say it brings a tinge of sadness to read about them, and pleases me when I read that S&W's CS has taken care of them.
As far as the younger shooters go, my 16yo daughter (I started late) has recently expressed an interest in learning about the shooting sport. This brings my heart much gladness, as I feared I had scared her off with my enthusiasm to have her take part in my noisy, scary hobby by insisting she at least shoot a .40 semi that I owned at one time, without recognizing that it was something she really didn't want to do. The recoil and the noise soured her on the sport for far too many years, and I recommend patience heartily, when dealing with youngsters who honestly aren't ready to take part in our obsession with us. As much as we parents crave our youngsters participation in the things that we love. Anyway, a few weeks ago she approached me about learning to shoot and this time I did it right. The "big" bores stayed home, and out came the Henry .22 rifle and the pre-18 revolver and a brush up on all the safety that goes with them. She had a blast! and worked her way most of the way through a 525 bulk pack of ammo, mostly shooting the pre-18 and being darned accurate with it to boot! The next week I exposed her to a semi-auto .22, she fired a couple magazines through it and spurned it for the .22 combat magnum for the rest of the afternoon, commenting that she just liked the revolver better. I'm a happy dad, and it looks like there's at least one new revolver lover in the fold. When and if she decides she wants a handgun of her own, perhaps she'll be looking at the latest S&W revolver offerings rather than nondescript black plastic blasters, or her dad's "antique" dinosaurs. I couldn't be more pleased either way.
As far as the younger shooters go, my 16yo daughter (I started late) has recently expressed an interest in learning about the shooting sport. This brings my heart much gladness, as I feared I had scared her off with my enthusiasm to have her take part in my noisy, scary hobby by insisting she at least shoot a .40 semi that I owned at one time, without recognizing that it was something she really didn't want to do. The recoil and the noise soured her on the sport for far too many years, and I recommend patience heartily, when dealing with youngsters who honestly aren't ready to take part in our obsession with us. As much as we parents crave our youngsters participation in the things that we love. Anyway, a few weeks ago she approached me about learning to shoot and this time I did it right. The "big" bores stayed home, and out came the Henry .22 rifle and the pre-18 revolver and a brush up on all the safety that goes with them. She had a blast! and worked her way most of the way through a 525 bulk pack of ammo, mostly shooting the pre-18 and being darned accurate with it to boot! The next week I exposed her to a semi-auto .22, she fired a couple magazines through it and spurned it for the .22 combat magnum for the rest of the afternoon, commenting that she just liked the revolver better. I'm a happy dad, and it looks like there's at least one new revolver lover in the fold. When and if she decides she wants a handgun of her own, perhaps she'll be looking at the latest S&W revolver offerings rather than nondescript black plastic blasters, or her dad's "antique" dinosaurs. I couldn't be more pleased either way.
zelda
Member
l buy used guns and cars. l think the new car guys and new gun guys are doing just fine
Dave T
Member
My contribution to this topic is to say, like a few others that I am not interested in buying poorly made or ugly guns to keep a company in business who doesn't give a fig about my interests. And this doesn't only apply to the current S&W.
I have no use for the Series 80 Colt auto pistols or the 3rd Generation SAA. I won't own anything but a 3-screw Ruger Blackhawk and I'm not interested in their GP series of DA revolvers...talk about ugly! The Kimbers in the safe are all of the first issue - I've seen too many of their Series II guns have problems.
Getting back to the topic, the lock is not only un-necessary, it's ugly and the change to the frame contour ruins the appearance of the guns. I know a gun smith who stays pretty busy, even though he's semi-retired, fixing head space problems on Smith's with the floating firing pins, which he replaces as a matter of course.
Sorry guys, my interest and money will go to the gun shops and dealers who sell used/older revolvers. I'm to old to waste my shooting time on guns I don't like.
Dave
I have no use for the Series 80 Colt auto pistols or the 3rd Generation SAA. I won't own anything but a 3-screw Ruger Blackhawk and I'm not interested in their GP series of DA revolvers...talk about ugly! The Kimbers in the safe are all of the first issue - I've seen too many of their Series II guns have problems.
Getting back to the topic, the lock is not only un-necessary, it's ugly and the change to the frame contour ruins the appearance of the guns. I know a gun smith who stays pretty busy, even though he's semi-retired, fixing head space problems on Smith's with the floating firing pins, which he replaces as a matter of course.
Sorry guys, my interest and money will go to the gun shops and dealers who sell used/older revolvers. I'm to old to waste my shooting time on guns I don't like.
Dave
That's great news dave!! Thanks. There isn't enough new guns to go around. I have to buy a new model when I see it to get it. It's gone when I come back looking for it.. Had someone not pointed out the IL to me a few years ago... I would have never known it was there...
I personally thought most of the older guns that are in my price range are either beat up or seem to have issues. The ones that look good, guys like you put a price tag on em that is ridiculous in my book. I can buy 2 new revolvers that work better and shoot as good as anything you got stored away in your safe. Not to mention the new ones look great!! But it's all kewl, you got what you like and I'll get what I like.
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Not if I find it first.
I'm gonna beat ya both, I live 10 minutes from S&W!!! I'm getting the next one out... I was drooling on 3-4 of them in the show case at SW a month ago and couldn't pull the trigger... dat ain't happening again.
I'm gonna beat ya both, I live 10 minutes from S&W!!! I'm getting the next one out... I was drooling on 3-4 of them in the show case at SW a month ago and couldn't pull the trigger... dat ain't happening again.
You better get out there tomorrow.
I plan on going out there tomorrow morning, customer paid his $6100 bill today for his rollcage, window net and a parachute in a Honda!!! Yep... gonna be hittin a few gun stores tomorrow!!
This is my last post for the day... boy it's been fun... nite all
gunny4053
US Veteran
Well put, Sir, well put. If there were anything for me to add, it would be that no matter the problems with new production, the Revolver isn't dead. I agree, the market does trend with what Law Enforcement is carrying, but I'm seeing many younger folks opting for the more stylish lines of the revolver. Of the three or four gun stores I frequent, revolvers tend not to set in the case very long, and older production models are snapped up as fast as they hit the display cases. More and more plastic remains collecting dust. We just need to do our part to help the newer generations of shooters learn to appreciate what we've known for years.
jdh
US Veteran
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About 1977 I scrimped and saved and special ordered an 8 3/8ths model 27 in the presentation box. Waited almost 6 weeks for Rod and Gun Club on post to finally get it in. The barrel was canted and installed in the frame cocked about 4 degrees to the left.
These problems are not new at S&W.
The V-8 overhead valve pushrod engine is basically the same as it was 50 years ago. "They" have hung all kinds of electronic gismos on it to meet standards set by the government for emissions and economy but the basics of the engine have changed very little. The last big advancement in the car chassis was the unibody. Most cars built today use this type of construction which, again, is over 50 years old. The basic design of the car has been relatively unchanged for more than 50 years. Refinements to driver comfort/aid are progressing rapidly but a car they do not make.
These problems are not new at S&W.
The V-8 overhead valve pushrod engine is basically the same as it was 50 years ago. "They" have hung all kinds of electronic gismos on it to meet standards set by the government for emissions and economy but the basics of the engine have changed very little. The last big advancement in the car chassis was the unibody. Most cars built today use this type of construction which, again, is over 50 years old. The basic design of the car has been relatively unchanged for more than 50 years. Refinements to driver comfort/aid are progressing rapidly but a car they do not make.
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