I've got a rant!! You may not like it....

[MWark]

Revolvers are like lever actions, both are still manufactured but they'll never be made like they were. That's okay I have mine already.

Think about it; if they were readily available they wouldn't be special now would they?

 

[M29since14]

Before this thread drifts off into Electronic Neverland, I would like to add one final bit of scaly wisdom for those who may spend too much time contemplating new S&Ws that they don't like and the company's design, manufacturing, marketing, and management methods. I hope you will approve.

General Rules For Tradesmen Working In Precision Manufacturing
1. Measure with mics...
2. Mark with chalk...
3. Cut with chisel...
4. Assemble with sledgehammer.



(Disclaimer: These rules are not the property of our friends at S&W, nor is any claim made that they endorse them, use them - or even know about them. )

 

[ladder13]

I don't want to see S&W close their doors

Especially since I have a whole bunch of guns that I need shipping dates for.

 

[256M-S]

Actually, I don't care if S&W closes except that it would be a victory for the anti-gun crowd. I haven't bought a new S&W since the P&RC process was discontinued---well, with the exception of a brace of J-frames and Model 65 3-inches and those are well pre-key lock safeties. Truth is though, 60's and 70's guns still had a lot of QC problems and it used to be a hassle switching from Colt to S&W as QC standards varied at each company. Seems to me you have to go at least Pre-WW II days to reliably get high quality and more reliably ca WW I--certainly for a collector, though I hasten to add that I'm not a collector but more an accumlator of weapons I thought I needed at the time. I like them in braces and sometimes multiple braces which helps to explain the quantity of pieces I own.

I remember talking to the senior salesman at an NRA Show about the sad state of affairs of their TR Specials and atrociously named "Classic" series guns replete with key locks. Was with an acquaintance who was also a writer who was smoozing and jockeying for a freebie--I noted he distanced himself pretty quickly from me given the context of my conversation . . . . Of course, my thoughts meant nothing to the Sales guy since he well knew there were plenty of guys who would write up their latest gun of the week with no problems mentioned.

Do like my older S&W revolvers though. . .

 

[turbo38gn]

Actually, I don't care if S&W closes except that it would be a victory for the anti-gun crowd. I haven't bought a new S&W since the P&RC process was discontinued---well, with the exception of a brace of J-frames and Model 65 3-inches and those are well pre-key lock safeties. Truth is though, 60's and 70's guns still had a lot of QC problems and it used to be a hassle switching from Colt to S&W as QC standards varied at each company. Seems to me you have to go at least Pre-WW II days to reliably get high quality and more reliably ca WW I--certainly for a collector, though I hasten to add that I'm not a collector but more an accumlator of weapons I thought I needed at the time. I like them in braces and sometimes multiple braces which helps to explain the quantity of pieces I own.

I remember talking to the senior salesman at an NRA Show about the sad state of affairs of their TR Specials and atrociously named "Classic" series guns replete with key locks. Was with an acquaintance who was also a writer who was smoozing and jockeying for a freebie--I noted he distanced himself pretty quickly from me given the context of my conversation . . . . Of course, my thoughts meant nothing to the Sales guy since he well knew there were plenty of guys who would write up their latest gun of the week with no problems mentioned.

Do like my older S&W revolvers though. . .

I didn't know people smoked crack so long ago....

 

[TDC]

Ya know, there is an old saying that a modified version would fit very well for some people. That saying is....

"It's not so much that I should succeed, but that others must fail..."

In this thread a modified version of this comment from some people seems to be:

"It's not so much that I don't like, appreciate or want something. It's that you shouldn't want it, like it, or have it be available to you either..."

I believe people with this kind of attitude are a small minority here. This thread and another by "Stainz" on the "1980 to present" page are clearly proving an outpouring of support for the products produced today.

A sure "back door" approach to national gun control is to find ways to close the companies. Attacking them through interest websites like this one can be a handy vehicle for such a purpose. There is evidence that method is being used on unrelated websites by anti-gun proponents.. One has to question the intent of a member who uses the anonymity of this website, then responds to a thread like this with only one single post to their record. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's here, but it would seem the influencing weight of it would be rather lacking....

Nice try, 256M-S...

 

[KJM]

Ya know, there is an old saying that a modified version would fit very well for some people. That saying is....

"It's not so much that I should succeed, but that others must fail..."

In this thread a modified version of this comment from some people seems to be:

"It's not so much that I don't like, appreciate or want something. It's that you shouldn't want it, like it, or have it be available to you either..."

I believe people with this kind of attitude are a small minority here. This thread and another by "Stainz" on the "1980 to present" page are clearly proving an outpouring of support for the products produced today.

A sure "back door" approach to national gun control is to find ways to close the companies. Attacking them through interest websites like this one can be a handy vehicle for such a purpose. There is evidence that method is being used on unrelated websites by anti-gun proponents.. One has to question the intent of a member who uses the anonymity of this website, then responds to a thread like this with only one single post to their record. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's here, but it would seem the influencing weight of it would be rather lacking....

Nice try, 256M-S...

I think your on to something Terry.

He joined the site 10 years ago, has infiltrated the SWCA, and has been biding his time for JUST this thread, so he could single handedly bring Smith and Wesson Down.

 

[TDC]

Ya think!!

 

[KPD-66]

Production year?

What is the production date of a 7K8 66 4"?

 

[ladder13]

What is the production date of a 7K8 66 4"?

Circa 1975.....welcome

 

[goldenbb]

I have to respectfully disagree. For a lot of reasons. I didn't read all the posts in the thread yet, but here's what I think:

1) Why should I care to support a business if they don't produce anything I want? I'm sure some of the newer revolvers are "fine" but I don't care for them. At all. I feel the same betrayal when a food company reduces their actual product size a couple of ounces in order to maintain price--it's the same kind of dishonesty. Our entire country is running on empty when everyone selling a product thinks it is okay to just "take one more pickle out of the jar." We all know where that ends, and we all know that quality of firearm manufacturing is down across the board and that they are trying to use marketing to blind us to the hard facts.

2) The older guns are never going to "run out." I don't know which poster said that, but guns are very durable goods. These Smiths will be around for another 100 years, unless they get thrown in the ocean or into a chipper the way many of their cousins have ended up in past eras. The gun industry has been pretty efficient at creating demand for new product by conveniently having old product destroyed or made otherwise unusable. That's my biggest beef about plastic-framed handguns (and someone will chime in and say "it's not plastic, it's POLYMER, which just means they are totally ignorant of chemistry).

3) Inflation? Seriously? Is this even a good excuse for anything? It may be the underlying reason things are so crappy and in decline in our country, but nobody is going to do anything about it until Smith starts trying to get away with cardboard grips and plastic cylinders, I guess.

4) The US is absolutely awash in firearms right now. It's unreal how many guns are being produced. I'm not sure who is buying all of them, I guess a lot of Joe Sixpacks got into buying guns right after Obama was elected or it's the concealed carry craze or something. I have never seen so many junk guns, with so little quality in any previous era. If the NRA puts that *** Springfield XD on the cover of their magazine just one more time, I'm done with the NRA.

 

[ladder13]

A sure "back door" approach to national gun control is to find ways to close the companies. Attacking them through interest websites like this one can be a handy vehicle for such a purpose. There is evidence that method is being used on unrelated websites by anti-gun proponents.

Terry, the anti-gunners are well disguised. They've infiltrated every facet of the gun hobby, I'm sure there's anti's in national and local gun advocacy organizations, think groups like the NRA and such. Heck they've infiltrated the highest levels of government.
We had a few in my gun club, but we found out about their links to subversive anti-gunners and threw them out. There's probably more still in the club but we're watching things closely.
The anti's are determined, well-funded, and everywhere.

 

[whitedogfive]

J Frame

J frame sales are brisk at S&W and from what I heard on the news, the J frame is the most carried CCW gun in the USA. So, wheel guns are far from going extinct an they make up a huge part of S&W sales.

 

[Jim NNN]

As I recall, at least a couple of the new S&W "classic" series are sans lock - the model 40 and the model 42 (alloy frame version of the 40). There may be more.

I should mention, I've bought two brand new Smith and Wesson pistols in the last year and a half, and have been very pleased with their quality and performance. Haven't bought any of their new revolvers. Glad to suppost S&W.

For all of the enthusiasm we have for old original revolvers, I'm surprised to see that you can still buy a good condition used S&W from the classic era for a lot less than a new one.

When I had a music store (for 17 years), it was just the opposite. Many (if not most) old Martins and Fenders and Gibsons from the classic era went for more than the equivalent new versions. Sometimes the value was many times over the value of a new one. Or at least the same value.

That's why I bought a half a dozen old S&W revolvers. They may never be worth what old guitars are, but I get the sense they are going to go up in value. I'm not at all viewing them as an investment - I was just buying them while I could still afford them.

 

[TDC]

<quote,goldenbb>I have to respectfully disagree. For a lot of reasons. I didn't read all the posts in the thread yet, but here's what I think:

1) Why should I care to support a business if they don't produce anything I want? I'm sure some of the newer revolvers are "fine" but I don't care for them.</quote>

A> You shouldn't. No one is trying to "sell you" or force you to buy something you find so unworthy of your hard earned dollars. On the other hand, many of us find it offensive when you imply our well considered choices are so bad, our findings of good qualities are unfounded, and imply we may be stupid for even considering them. As some posters have stated, they don't own a post 1980's S&W and never will. That's like me saying... I hate Ford PU's, never owned one, but don't want you to own or like one either because I don't!

<quote>2) The older guns are never going to "run out." I don't know which poster said that, but guns are very durable goods. These Smiths will be around for another 100 years,</quote>

A> The older guns are already "running out"... Just try to find some of the "premium" models! Depends on how you define the term. Some models will always be available and comparatively cheap, but the guns many of us like and want, weather they be old or new models, will always be in much shorter supply than the after market can possibly supply. Anyone who seriously studies some of the new innovation coming out of S&W, and who has an open mind, will conclude there are many, many new things that will wet the appetite of any handgun user or collector. I can assure you that will include future collectors of the new guns, too.

<quote>3) Inflation? Seriously? Is this even a good excuse for anything?</quote>

A> Afraid so! Measuring our dollars against what we buy or what we currently own has become an economic survival thing for many of us. Some political factions say "what's the big deal -- we can just print more money." Inflation affects you, me, and yes, even the corporations that make everything we use or consume. I don't blame S&W for passing through materials costs, lobor costs, legal costs, federal, state and local taxation and transportation costs. I don't blame them for finding innovative new ways to try to keep the price of products within the realm of availability to the "little guy" and still make a profit in order to survive.

<quote>4) The US is absolutely awash in firearms right now. It's unreal how many guns are being produced. I'm not sure who is buying all of them...</quote>

A> I do... It's the people who fear the current direction of government in general, government regulation, escalating prices and a growing fear of the obvious breakdown of society as we have known it. People are voting with their money and their feet, preparing for what is perceived as a real threat to their families and property... As we have seen recently, even prominent anti-gun proponents are arming themselves (Rosie O'Donnell's body guard?), and appearing embarrassed when their handgun ownership is made public.... She has made the public statement handgun protection is needed to protect her or her family from "the threats from pro-gun nuts..." -- Uh...Hello!! Martha Stewart's daughter hates guns but bought a 357 Mag after 911...? Howard Stern is licensed to carry? Uh... kind of a "don't do as I do...do as I say.." OK for them but not for us....

So I will in turn ask questions of anyone willing to answer...

1. Why do some anti-current model folks spend so much time in thread areas you so vehemently oppose and find have "no interest to you whatsoever"? It would seem your time would be much better spent supporting those things you like rather than attempting to downgrade the guns many of you seem to have so little personal experience or first hand knowledge about....

2. Could there be other issues coming into play for you other than the "quality" of new S&W handguns, ie, personal economic, political, all inclusive negative corporate bias, or even latent anti-gun sentiments a poster may have, but only for other people? I see statements like, "I hate them", "wouldn't own one", "never owned one." OK... That's your decision, but you should understand how lame your negative appraisal sounds to those of us who do have a different perspective based on first hand knowledge of them.

I'm proud of the various opinions it received and all the people willing to take their time to respond to this issue. Nothing can reinforce or challenge opinions like a good debate.... I believe we've had that here.

Thanks to all!!

 

[Jim NNN]

It's the people who fear the current direction of government in general, government regulation....

This is true. I don't see myself buying guns only for ME, I see myself buying them for my kids and grandkids, should things go the wrong way politically in a few years (or months???)

Not a hording mentality, a hedging mentality.

 

[turbo38gn]

Terry!! Awsome response. You just said everything I wanted to say, AND ALOT MORE, but had neither the time or patience to write out. I have a difficult time getting what's in my head to the keyboard!!! Just absolutely the best post in this thread!!!

Thank you,

 

[Practical]

This is one of the most intelligent posts I have seen in quite a while.

Frankly the ONLY thing that will bring revolvers back into vogue is a semi-auto ban, which the anti-gun folks likely will try someday.

Revolvers may again rule, but it will be ONLY when semi-autos are more restrictively regulated.

That day may come. I think it will come for certain states, because the Supreme Court will likely rule in the end that states can regulate firearm ownership but NOT deny it.

 

[ladder13]

Terry!! Awsome response. You just said everything I wanted to say, AND ALOT MORE, but had neither the time or patience to write out. I have a difficult time getting what's in my head to the keyboard!!! Just absolutely the best post in this thread!!!

Thank you,

+1

What's dishonest about a company reducing the size of any product and charging more? It all comes down to their bottom line and their survival. As long as the package is not marked a quart when it only contains a pint, there's nothing illegal nor unethical about the sale. Read your labels.

 

[18DAI]

<quote,goldenbb>I have to respectfully disagree. For a lot of reasons. I didn't read all the posts in the thread yet, but here's what I think:

1) Why should I care to support a business if they don't produce anything I want? I'm sure some of the newer revolvers are "fine" but I don't care for them.</quote>

A> You shouldn't. No one is trying to "sell you" or force you to buy something you find so unworthy of your hard earned dollars. On the other hand, many of us find it offensive when you imply our well considered choices are so bad, our findings of good qualities are unfounded, and imply we may be stupid for even considering them. As some posters have stated, they don't own a post 1980's S&W and never will. That's like me saying... I hate Ford PU's, never owned one, but don't want you to own or like one either because I don't!

<quote>2) The older guns are never going to "run out." I don't know which poster said that, but guns are very durable goods. These Smiths will be around for another 100 years,</quote>

A> The older guns are already "running out"... Just try to find some of the "premium" models! Depends on how you define the term. Some models will always be available and comparatively cheap, but the guns many of us like and want, weather they be old or new models, will always be in much shorter supply than the after market can possibly supply. Anyone who seriously studies some of the new innovation coming out of S&W, and who has an open mind, will conclude there are many, many new things that will wet the appetite of any handgun user or collector. I can assure you that will include future collectors of the new guns, too.

<quote>3) Inflation? Seriously? Is this even a good excuse for anything?</quote>

A> Afraid so! Measuring our dollars against what we buy or what we currently own has become an economic survival thing for many of us. Some political factions say "what's the big deal -- we can just print more money." Inflation affects you, me, and yes, even the corporations that make everything we use or consume. I don't blame S&W for passing through materials costs, lobor costs, legal costs, federal, state and local taxation and transportation costs. I don't blame them for finding innovative new ways to try to keep the price of products within the realm of availability to the "little guy" and still make a profit in order to survive.

<quote>4) The US is absolutely awash in firearms right now. It's unreal how many guns are being produced. I'm not sure who is buying all of them...</quote>

A> I do... It's the people who fear the current direction of government in general, government regulation, escalating prices and a growing fear of the obvious breakdown of society as we have known it. People are voting with their money and their feet, preparing for what is perceived as a real threat to their families and property... As we have seen recently, even prominent anti-gun proponents are arming themselves (Rosie O'Donnell's body guard?), and appearing embarrassed when their handgun ownership is made public.... She has made the public statement handgun protection is needed to protect her or her family from "the threats from pro-gun nuts..." -- Uh...Hello!! Martha Stewart's daughter hates guns but bought a 357 Mag after 911...? Howard Stern is licensed to carry? Uh... kind of a "don't do as I do...do as I say.." OK for them but not for us....

So I will in turn ask questions of anyone willing to answer...

1. Why do some anti-current model folks spend so much time in thread areas you so vehemently oppose and find have "no interest to you whatsoever"? It would seem your time would be much better spent supporting those things you like rather than attempting to downgrade the guns many of you seem to have so little personal experience or first hand knowledge about....

2. Could there be other issues coming into play for you other than the "quality" of new S&W handguns, ie, personal economic, political, all inclusive negative corporate bias, or even latent anti-gun sentiments a poster may have, but only for other people? I see statements like, "I hate them", "wouldn't own one", "never owned one." OK... That's your decision, but you should understand how lame your negative appraisal sounds to those of us who do have a different perspective based on first hand knowledge of them.

I'm proud of the various opinions it received and all the people willing to take their time to respond to this issue. Nothing can reinforce or challenge opinions like a good debate.... I believe we've had that here.

Thanks to all!!

As to your question number 1, because there were some very nice revolvers made from 1980 to 2001. This thread area contains both those nice revolvers and current production revolvers.

As to your question number 2, it sounds no less "lame", to those of us who have examined them, to suggest that the current production revolvers are in any way desireable. You like them, fine. You buy them. I choose not to. I fail to see a problem with this approach.

Perhaps a 1980 to 2001 section would alleviate these concerns. Regards 18DAI