J frame carriers, what timed drills do you do?

[ABPOS]

And how do you do? Meaning how fast? I would like to see how I can stack up against some experts.

A buddy and I went to the range yesterday and worked on some timed drills with our carry guns. He had his Shield and Ruger SR9c.

Since I was carrying a J frame we did: Draw, shoot 5, reload, shoot another 5. Had to keep it on an NRA 8" bullseye 100 yard target. Anywhere on the paper was accepted. We only did this twice and my best time was 12.9 seconds.

We also did several: Draw, 1 shot. My best time for that was 1.7 seconds but I was pushing really hard and missed. We were both averaging around 2 seconds. I hear some people say they can do it in a second. But I don' t know if that means from a concealment holster or from an OWB...

I would like to try and do drills that are kind of J frame friendly that I can compare with others here, if there are any.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

None......It just rides in my pocket till needed.........

 

[Kodiakco]

Give this a look see. You may need to adjust times for a revolver (stage 3).
Shoot Like the Pros: The New FBI Qualification Course of Fire - The Truth About Guns

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[ContinentalOp]

I have a baseline drill that I do from time to time. Target is an 8.5"x11" sheet of paper, vertical (I usually tape it over CoM on a silhouette target). The drill is 2 rounds, in 2 seconds, from 2 yards, from concealment, both rounds on the paper. There's a range I use occasionally that has programmable turning targets. I set it so the target starts on edge, then faces me, then turns back after 2 seconds. I prefer the visual stimulus of the turning target to the beep of a timer. I do this drill both one-handed and two-handed. I shorten the time as I improve. So far, my best time is 1.8 seconds, but I can consistently get decent hits on target within 2 seconds (I'm definitely NOT an expert). I use my 642-1, carried in my usual manner (IWB under an untucked shirt). While I normally shoot standard pressure ammo for practice, I do this drill with +P ammo since that's what I carry.

While quickness is a good skill to develop, don't sacrifice accuracy/precision for speed. Don't try to go fast until you've got the mechanics of the draw down. As the old saying goes, "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

 

[BE Mike]

And how do you do? Meaning how fast? I would like to see how I can stack up against some experts.

A buddy and I went to the range yesterday and worked on some timed drills with our carry guns. He had his Shield and Ruger SR9c.

Since I was carrying a J frame we did: Draw, shoot 5, reload, shoot another 5. Had to keep it on an NRA 8" bullseye 100 yard target. Anywhere on the paper was accepted. We only did this twice and my best time was 12.9 seconds.

We also did several: Draw, 1 shot. My best time for that was 1.7 seconds but I was pushing really hard and missed. We were both averaging around 2 seconds. I hear some people say they can do it in a second. But I don' t know if that means from a concealment holster or from an OWB...

I would like to try and do drills that are kind of J frame friendly that I can compare with others here, if there are any.

Thanks for the input guys.

All trigger time is good, to an extent. You don't say what distance you are shooting, nor do you say that you are using the exact same rig that your use for EDC. I think a silhouette target would give you a better idea of the kind of hits you want. Putting speed before accuracy is a big mistake. Focus on marksmanship and smooth presentations and the speed will come. Marksmanship will save your life and the lives of innocent bystanders.

 

[ABPOS]

7 yards. Yes, using my carry rig, same as always.

I'm not sure what you mean by putting speed before accuracy. I work on both. Definitely need to work on accuracy more. But I don't see the harm in trying to see how fast I can get rounds off from concealment.

 

[eb07]

Here is what I do.

1. The 5x5x5 snub standard: 5 rounds, 5 yards, 5 seconds on a B8 from concealment. I think this is the standard to strive for.


2. The 3 two 1 drill: pistol-training.com >> 3-Two-1
Modified for a snub 2-2-1 in 4 seconds from draw. That is a challenge.


3. The FAST drill modified for a snub trying to meet a 4 second speed loader and 6 second speed strip reload from concealment goal. https://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/fast-target.pdf

4. “THE TEST” Modified to 5 = reload from concealment - 5 more.... adding 4 seconds onto it for reload time to finish in 14 or better with the same accuracy as a goal. B-8 bullseye target at 10 yards, 10 shots in 14 seconds, all in the black

5. Dot Torture: pistol-training.com >> Dot Torture


Then there is Claude Werners Stuff:

BACK AT IT AGAIN WITH THE ACCURACY DRILLS! The Secrets of Highly Successful Gunfighters, and the Tactical Professor’s Baseline Establishment – Revolver Science

 

[ABPOS]

Thanks eb107. Those give me some good starting points. I don't understand what you are saying for number 4. Shoot 5 then reload? Reload after drawing? That one is confusing.

I like the simplicity of #1. I can start there..... A B8 is a human sized shilhouette, right? I think I have 2 of those.

 

[BE Mike]

7 yards. Yes, using my carry rig, same as always.

I'm not sure what you mean by putting speed before accuracy. I work on both. Definitely need to work on accuracy more. But I don't see the harm in trying to see how fast I can get rounds off from concealment.

Accuracy trumps speed. That's what I mean. Once you have a group you can cover with your fist, you should work on 10 yds., then 15 yds., etc. What purpose does speed have? Are you going to have a tv western gunfight or draw on the drop?

 

[cadmike]

I use 3 targets, all 8.5 x 11 sheets of paper. From either 5 or 7 yards I draw and fire 2 rounds on target 1, 2 on target 2 and 1 on 3. I do not time myself because I do not own a shot timer. Accuracy is my goal.

Also I like to start at 3 yards and draw and engage the 3 targets while slowly stepping backwards and to the right, and backwards to the left. Much more difficult.

Then, I practice the same drills but strong arm only. Then, from the low ready position I practice support arm only.

As far as reloading the j frame, if you feel you need more than 5 shots consider carrying a higher capacity firearm.

Enjoy whatever drills you choose, they're always fun.

 

[ABPOS]

Accuracy trumps speed. That's what I mean. Once you have a group you can cover with your fist, you should work on 10 yds., then 15 yds., etc. What purpose does speed have? Are you going to have a tv western gunfight or draw on the drop?

I don't pretend to know anything about gunfighting or using my gun in defense, since I've never had to. Some guys that have used their guns in defense / offense teach shooting against a timer. Just thought about covering all bases. I thought accuracy plus speed is a good thing.

I definitely need to work on accuracy though. No doubt about it. Some guns are easier than other of course. Typically I do more slower shooting than fast. So I was just trying new techniques.

I would think if someone meant you harm, speed COULD be of the essence of avoiding the harm. But again, I'm no expert.

 

[Old cop]

I use a standard size paper plate at three, five & seven yards, J frame belt holstered under a cover garment. Draw & fire to empty as fast as possible & reload w/a speed loader or speed strip and repeat. I don't have any way to time this but the goal is to keep all shots on the paper plate.

 

[eb07]

I use 3 targets, all 8.5 x 11 sheets of paper. From either 5 or 7 yards I draw and fire 2 rounds on target 1, 2 on target 2 and 1 on 3. I do not time myself because I do not own a shot timer. Accuracy is my goal.

Also I like to start at 3 yards and draw and engage the 3 targets while slowly stepping backwards and to the right, and backwards to the left. Much more difficult.

Then, I practice the same drills but strong arm only. Then, from the low ready position I practice support arm only.

As far as reloading the j frame, if you feel you need more than 5 shots consider carrying a higher capacity firearm.

Enjoy whatever drills you choose, they're always fun.

Because I like to compete with my actual carry guns and reloads are required for 99.9% of the courses of fire. So I practice.

 

[eb07]

Thanks eb107. Those give me some good starting points. I don't understand what you are saying for number 4. Shoot 5 then reload? Reload after drawing? That one is confusing.

I like the simplicity of #1. I can start there..... A B8 is a human sized shilhouette, right? I think I have 2 of those.

Draw. Fire 5 Reload. Fire 5.


Google NRA b8. It is not a humanoid target.

 

[BE Mike]

I don't pretend to know anything about gunfighting or using my gun in defense, since I've never had to. Some guys that have used their guns in defense / offense teach shooting against a timer. Just thought about covering all bases. I thought accuracy plus speed is a good thing.

I definitely need to work on accuracy though. No doubt about it. Some guns are easier than other of course. Typically I do more slower shooting than fast. So I was just trying new techniques.

I would think if someone meant you harm, speed COULD be of the essence of avoiding the harm. But again, I'm no expert.

It is also a good practice to do some shoot/ no shoot drills. It is amazing how a situation can change in the time it takes one to draw and present the firearm. If you get a chance to get some good instruction, jump on it. I personally think that repeatedly learning to draw and present the firearm (when empty) is a good way to instill proper techniques. One should start slowly, focusing on proper grip on the handgun and then proper placing of the off-hand and jabbing the gun towards the target while focusing on the front sight. When you tire of a long session of this, then take that empty handgun and dry fire with a smooth steady double-action pull. Of course, you have to first know what a proper grip and stance are before you begin. I just think you might be putting the cart before the horse. I'm not trying to impress you with my resume, but I've had a lot of firearms training over the years. You can learn so much more from a GOOD course in a short time that it is worth the money and time spent. It also is a good grounding for training on your own. I cannot recommend any particular school, but I'm sure some on here can. Having said all of that, it is good to go out and just have some fun shooting. If that is your goal, just having fun, then by all means don't let me be a wet blanket.

 

[forrestinmathews]

I'm going to shock you when I say that I shoot it like a regular gun. I don't give it special treatment or anything. It has 7 comp-1 speed loaders and a blade tech leather pocket holster as well as a fobus paddle holster. It sports the slim laser grips from Crimson Trace. I have shot entire steel matches with it and more than a few idpa matches. The best practice I can suggest is to practice marksmanship at distance and to treat it as a very capable and accurate platform. Any lack of accuracy has to be attributed to the shooter failing to do it better. Otherwise you're not going to improve with it. Google Claude Werner and Grant Cunningham. One of them has written a book about snubs and the other is really good with them. I can't remember which is which they are both really great guys.

 

[RSanch111]

Draw, fire two.

Open cylinder, push ejector rod up and pick the two spent cases out.

Reload two.

Fire Four

Open cylinder, push ejector rod out, pick out live round, dump 4 spent cases.

Reload live round plus four more.

Shoot five rounds

Dump five empty cases

Reload two rounds and index them properly so they fire the first time you pull the trigger.

Fire two rounds.

When you're carrying a revolver it's important to be able to quickly pick live rounds out of the cylinder and dump empties without dumping live rounds. It's also important to be able to index the gun with fewer than a whole cylinder full of live rounds so they fire with the first pull of the trigger. And don't forget: Colts spin clockwise and Smiths spin counter clockwise.'

Or you could carry so many reloads that it won't matter if you dump live rounds. But you won't......

 

[njr]

I would focus on the techniques in _Shooting To Live_ for self defense. Point shooting to 12 feet, 30 feet at most if you follow Applegate's and the 1950s FBI adaptation.

Other than that, the Ayoob stressfire and Cooper modern technique.

I would defer to others drills on regards to accuracy. Ed Lovette noted that accuracy is the most important attribute. He also recommends carrying a second snubby. I'll probably carry my P-32 as a backup if it proves reliable just back from kel tec.

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[rwsmith]

From gun lowered....

From a gun lowered stance I start counting, raise the pistol and acquire the sight picture and let off three shots all in under three seconds. The shooting is the easy part. Getting the sights aligned is a bear. This is one I do the most. I'm going to have to put some fluorescent paint on the ffront sight of my wife's (nickel?) model 38. If the light is a bit off I use the whole three seconds just getting the sights on target.

 

[DD357]

Give this a look see. You may need to adjust times for a revolver (stage 3).
Shoot Like the Pros: The New FBI Qualification Course of Fire - The Truth About Guns

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Yeah, 8 rounds in 8 sec with a reload with a revolver might be a push. I'll have to try it.