J-Frame Carry Round....38-special or 9mm and Why?

[Nalapombu]

Hey all,

Something I would like help with is what would be the best choice for a carry gun in a small revolver or J-Frame.

I don't think I want to go up to 357mag unless it would be one of the steel 640, 649 or the Ruger LCR.
That puts me in the 38 Special (and +P) or 9mm. I like the idea of the 9mm. Cheap practice ammo compared to the 38 special and 38 Special +P. Ballistics that closely match the 38 Special +P, from what I've read as I don't know for a fact this is true.
I also think the moon clips for the 9mm would facilitate much faster reloads than with the Speed Strips with 38 Special rounds.


So, I'd like to get your thoughts on what would be the best round for a carry revolver. Is there one of them that is above the others when all things are taken into consideration?


The problem with the 9mm is that S&W doesn't make one any longer and I'd have to go with the Ruger LCR or get a 38 Special J-frame and send it off to have custom work done to it to enable it to shoot 9mm. I don't think I'd want to go that route. I'd have to find an older S&W like the PC 940 and I have no clue on what one of those would sell for these days.


Any info or advice you'd like to add, feel free. I'd like to get all the info I can before making a decision on what to buy.


Thank you for your time and any help you can give me.
Larry

 

[wolverine]

Hey all,

Something I would like help with is what would be the best choice for a carry gun in a small revolver or J-Frame.

I don't think I want to go up to 357mag unless it would be one of the steel 640, 649 or the Ruger LCR.
That puts me in the 38 Special (and +P) or 9mm. I like the idea of the 9mm. Cheap practice ammo compared to the 38 special and 38 Special +P. Ballistics that closely match the 38 Special +P, from what I've read as I don't know for a fact this is true.
I also think the moon clips for the 9mm would facilitate much faster reloads than with the Speed Strips with 38 Special rounds.


So, I'd like to get your thoughts on what would be the best round for a carry revolver. Is there one of them that is above the others when all things are taken into consideration?


The problem with the 9mm is that S&W doesn't make one any longer and I'd have to go with the Ruger LCR or get a 38 Special J-frame and send it off to have custom work done to it to enable it to shoot 9mm. I don't think I'd want to go that route. I'd have to find an older S&W like the PC 940 and I have no clue on what one of those would sell for these days.


Any info or advice you'd like to add, feel free. I'd like to get all the info I can before making a decision on what to buy.

Morning Larry

Personally I'm not that big of a fan of carrying a moon clip gun for personal protection. It can be done & some do it but to me the limitations outweigh the benefits.

The first pit fall of carrying a moon clip gun is there are no partial reloads. If you shoot 2 rounds then have a chance to do a top-off you need to drop all 5 (or 6) out of the gun & replace with 5 or 6 more.

The second pitfall (& to me the most troublesome) is a loaded moon clip bends easily & bent moon clips don't always fire the rounds due to the spring effect of a bent clip.

It is not easy to carry a loaded moon clip on the body without a bulky contraption to house it. In-pocket moon clip carry is a sure way to bend one.

For a small pocket carry revolver I am kind of partial to the .327 federal round. You get 6 .327 instead of 5 in 9mm or 38 & the power of the .327 federal is just under the .357 mag with the recoil of a .38 special. (very potent round & you get one extra)-- Down side is the .327 federal is very loud.

 

[diyj98]

I've had 9mm revolvers, but much prefer 38's. At least with a 38 cut for moon clips you have the option of using them or not. To me the clips are a pain to load and something else to worry about getting bent

 

[Stopsign32v]

158gr semi wadcutter. After countless ballistics tests I've viewed, opinions, etc...The conclusion I've come to is (at least short of a hot 357 magnum+) all pistol rounds do is punch holes the size of the bullet.

So with that said go with the biggest you can. 44 special, 45 colt, 45 acp, etc. If you need to stay with a 38 cal then get the one that will push the hardest (158gr) and have the least amount of recoil for ACCURATE shots on vital areas.

My .02

 

[629shooter]

With exception to the Model 547 (K-Frame) you have to use moon clips for the 9MM revolvers. But, moon clips do give you a more positive ejection of the spent cases and faster reloads with practice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Stopsign32v]

For a small pocket carry revolver I am kind of partial to the .327 federal round. You get 6 .327 instead of 5 in 9mm or 38 & the power of the .327 federal is just under the .357 mag with the recoil of a .38 special. (very potent round & you get one extra)-- Down side is the .327 federal is very loud.

VERY loud, terribly expensive, and will be very hard to find ammo locally. Pretty much limits you to reloading or internet ammo purchasing.

 

[Amp]

I am happy with any quality 38 or 38+p ammo out there

 

[slabside2]

Like poster #2 posted Underwood ammo is super hot. I've shot most of the +P 38spl ammo out there in my LCR and underwood ammo was the hottest. Also it doesn't seem to have more of a kick then your regular +p stuff. Yes it is more expensive but it not like going to the rande shooting boxes of it.

 

[Stopsign32v]

These are the two I want to try.

Remington High Terminal Performance Ammo 38 Special +P 158 Grain Lead

This but in 158gr
Remington High Terminal Performance Ammo 38 Special +P 125 Grain

For me these are relatively easy to find locally. Ive tested them with my fingernail and the lead is softer than most I've tested. Overall I feel these could be the best 38 special defense load period.

 

[Pisgah]

Ballistically speaking, I really see no big advantage to either. The 9mm gives you slightly lighter, but slightly speedier bullets; the .38, slightly slower, slightly heavier bullets. A wash.

But I like a revolver to shoot a revolver round, and the .38 is a revolver round. Roll-crimped, greatly lessening the chance of recoil-induced bullet pull, and no adaptive gizmo needed to make reliable ejection possible. Yes, the moon clips make for fast, easy reloads -- but so do quality speedloaders, and the relative fragility of the clips (ever try to load and fire with a slightly bent clip?) make a good speedloader more attractive to me.

Your preference may be different, and you'll get no argument from me. But for 9mm packet carry, I'll stick with my Beretta Nano, and stick to .38 for my j-frames.

 

[murphydog]

"The problem with the 9mm is that S&W doesn't make one any longer and I'd have to go with the Ruger LCR or get a 38 Special J-frame and send it off to have custom work done to it to enable it to shoot 9mm. I don't think I'd want to go that route. I'd have to find an older S&W like the PC 940 and I have no clue on what one of those would sell for these days."

Well, you can buy an LCR in 9 mm:

Ruger® LCR® * Double-Action Revolver Model 5456

Another non-S & W alternative is the Charter Arms Pitbull, no moon clips needed:

79920 9 mm Pitbull Rimless Revolver | Charter Arms

One nice thing about most guns is you can buy one with careful shopping, try it out and then sell it for very little loss if it doesn't work out for you. Good luck in your decision.

 

[cleans up]

I have a shoot both 9mm and 38 J frames, so I'll chime in.

Having been down this road, unless you want to split hairs the 38 is an easy answer. 9mm revolvers are and i think always will be rare and a bit odd. The best of the readily available currently is the ruger lcr, but it's downside is weight at ~17oz. The charter arms may be ok, but there are too many mixed reviews for me. 940's and other smiths are hard to find and may be cost prohibitive. 750 and up if my recent searches are indicitave.

Back to the real issue 9 vs 38?

Ballistically the 9mm often does a touch better out of a short barrel, but is it significant? You be the judge, some say all pistol calibers 9/38 and up are "good enough". 9 is cheaper, so if you shoot a lot there will be savings. 9 is one of the most prevalent cartridges around so it may be easier to find (however during some panics it was also the one of the first to disappear). There are probably more options for 9mm including high quality defense rounds than any other round. If you reload then it's probably a wash, heck 38 might even be easier to handload...others will have to confirm.

9mm does require moon clips in almost all guns. It does, generally, necessitate reloads of a full cylinder at a time. I've fine with both. On the plus side moonclip reloads are as faster for me than any other method. Partial reloads are possible w/ cut moonclips and some may be commercially available even. Guns like the governor use them, as supplied by S&W. Moon clips can and do bend but this doesn't happen every time you drop them in a pocket and it's easy to check. The only shooters I've know to have this happen with any frequency at all are comp shooters, usually b/c they get stepped on it seems.

Recoil: in my guns most factory ammo for 9 recoils just slightly more than 38. It's hard to tell unless you shoot them back to back. In reality I think its a wash if you have decent technique, neither are so harsh as to create problems for most shooters. This is in stark contrast to 357 out of the small guns, which often sees 1 round or 1 cylinder before a shooter stops.

Noise/concussion: I don't notice any appreciable difference b/w the 2. Certainly there is some, but it's close enough to not be a factor.

In the end I have both and carry both from time to time. I'm not 100% which gun I'd keep if I could only have 1 j frame. It'd probably be the 9mm conversion of a mp340...98% sure, but keep in mind that I'm $900 or so into the gun, moon clips etc, and I got a great deal on it to start.

 

[BgDnTx]

I think the ballistics tell the story. I would not concern myself with the brand of the launching pad.
Ballisticsbytheinch.com says a 124g 9mm GDHP out of a 2" barrel is 1074 fps and a 135g GDHP is 756 fps (although it is advertised a little faster). Energy is an additional factor to consider.
If it were my primary, I would go with the 9mm and use 124g+P or +P+. And I would go to a semi-auto with more rounds.
I carry a .38spcl J-frame with the GDHP short barrel as a backup to either a 40, 45, or 10mm.
And stay away from cheap guns - it's your life, how much is it worth?

 

[robert1804]

I think 9mm revolvers of any kind are more of an enthusiasts and special interest gun. Bullet creep is a real problem in 9mm, especially in lightweight revolvers. 38 spc is available from mild to wild, while 9mm is not commercially loaded down for practice/plinking since it needs to be hot enough to cycle automatics.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

We use Doplar Radar for our speed tests. It is set up on the range now, along with our pressure testing equipment. I can tell you that when testing 9mm and .38 special, when all things are equal, bullet weight and barrel length. Apples to Apples, NOT different weights. The difference is almost covered in standard deviation. Really, it's a wash. Really. This is in testing small revolvers. Not autos against revolvers. Apples to Apples.

 

[wolverine]

We use Doplar Radar for our speed tests. It is set up on the range now, along with our pressure testing equipment. I can tell you that when testing 9mm and .38 special, when all things are equal, bullet weight and barrel length. Apples to Apples, NOT different weights. The difference is almost covered in standard deviation. Really, it's a wash. Really. This is in testing small revolvers. Not autos against revolvers. Apples to Apples.

Afternoon Lee's Landing Billy

I have a difficult time with understanding how you are coming up with your data.

Same bullet weight, same barrel length but much different working pressures should mean that the 9mm would be measurably faster as the pressures are way higher on the 9mm.

If your defined difference is covered in the standard deviation of your testing then your testing deviations must be enormous.

.38 Special:= 17,000 psi (std.)___ 20,000 psi in (+P)

9x19mm:= 35,000 psi (std.)__ 38,500 psi in (+P)

 

[BgDnTx]

Good points on Lee's Landing Billy and Robert1804. I don't use 9mm - too little for my piece of mind. Guess I was saying if it was a small caliber choice, I would want as many rounds as I could get - a G17 comes to mind.
My summer carry is a S&W 40C - 10+1
In winter I normally go to a Commander.
But always have the "J" if necessary for immediate deployment.

I don't know if pressures come into play in the discussion necessarily. My 38 Super is only moderately outdone by my 10mm, yet an impressive difference in performance.

 

[Mister X]

I own several 9mm Glocks, so the concept of a 9mm revolver and completely standardizing on 9mm sounds appealing, at the least on the surface.

However, after researching the idea multiple times, the conclusion I always reach is that it just isn't practical and it is for good reasons why you don't see more 9mm defensive revolvers. The moonclips themselves(particularly for 9mm and .38) are thin, fragile and easily bent. Another problem with 9mm in a light revolver is bullet jump. There are S&W snubs (642/442/640) chambered in .38 special cut for moon-clips and you supposedly can fire them without any problems without the moon-clips, but I'm not entirely convinced of that. I've talked with a couple of revolver gunsmiths and instructors and their thinking was that you could still have headspacing and possible ignition issues as well as higher risk of case under extractor jams. Better just to get the regular models to avoid potential problems. I also found the moon-clips to be a bit clumsy as the rounds move around much more then I expected. A speed loader holds the rounds much more firmly.

So, to me the best option in a snub revolver is for it to be chambered .38 special/.357 magnum and using speedloaders and/or speed strips for loading/reloading.

 

[rwsmith]

If you've shot the 9mm in a semi........

The kick is much different than from a revolver because the spring transfers the recoil impulse to you over more time and it 'feels' softer.

A disadvantage of putting a 9mm in a snub also is that it wastes power at the barrel cylinder gap. Though it's only about 50 fps second loss while a 9mm semi has no gap to lose power through and can get decent velocity from a 2" barrel.

I just tested my own .38 ammo out of a model 36 and got 950 fps with 135 gr Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel bullets. I can cool the velocity down to 850 fps where Speer has tested and got good expansion/penetration.

I put a Hogue Monogrip on my mod 38 Airweight, I have yet to test it but it HAS to be better. With two piece soft grips it really hurts to shoot anything over a target load. I don't mind that for SD, but practice will be wearing.

I guess what all this boils down to is that I haven't tried 9mm in a revolver or moon clips but I've been able to get satisfaction in .38 ammo for a 'J' frame snub.

 

[BgDnTx]

Never used moon clips - don't really know much about them. They do look a little fragile. I always used speed loaders and carry one in my pocket. And 1 extra 40 or 45 magazine.

I don't defend or poo poo any choice - I just tell people to be comfortable and feel secure in what they carry. While I said my primary would not be the J-frame, I always remind myself that 80 or so years of police work was carried on successfully with the 38 spcl.

And I would go up against a Grizzly with a 22LR if that's all that was available - well maybe I would.