J-Frame Carry Round....38-special or 9mm and Why?

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Afternoon Lee's Landing Billy

I have a difficult time with understanding how you are coming up with your data.

Same bullet weight, same barrel length but much different working pressures should mean that the 9mm would be measurably faster as the pressures are way higher on the 9mm.

If your defined difference is covered in the standard deviation of your testing then your testing deviations must be enormous.

.38 Special:= 17,000 psi (std.)___ 20,000 psi in (+P)

9x19mm:= 35,000 psi (std.)__ 38,500 psi in (+P)

Hey!! Wolverine! Just got back from the range. I readily accept that the felt recoil is discernable. Just that the given velocities are almost on top of each other that we tested. The 2 inch guns wreak havoc on the 125 9mms. The 125 .38s while slower of course than 4s or 6s are usually on par with the 9s when tested in actual guns.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Guys I just looked at some old paperwork around here and this is what I found
9mm 124s 870 fps from a Ruger LCR
38 Spec 125s at 760 from a Chief
110 fps slower, so obviously outside any deviation comparison. I'm old, sometimes I get confused. Anyway, at a 110 fps average I still think it's almost a toss up. We'll have to get some penetration numbers together too.

 

[cleans up]

Many people talk about bullet creep and I'm sure it happens but as one who has and shoots a 9mm revolver, I've never expereinced it. I'm probably ~500 rounds down range through a couple guns 940/340 so it's a limited sample but I think if you choose quality ammo this is more a talking point than reality.

 

[wolverine]

Many people talk about bullet creep and I'm sure it happens but as one who has and shoots a 9mm revolver, I've never expereinced it. I'm probably ~500 rounds down range through a couple guns 940/340 so it's a limited sample but I think if you choose quality ammo this is more a talking point than reality.

Evening cleans up

I can see & measure 9mm bullet creep with a lot of hot factory ammo.

If all cylinder holes are fired then the creep isn't enough to be concerning but if I leave a round or two in the moon clip then run them though a cycle (or especially 2 cycles) with fresh ammo in the other positions I can sometimes get enough creep to lock the cylinder up.

I don't seem to have a creep problem with my lower powered hand loads that I shoot for practice.

My usually procedure is to only cycle the rounds one time on my 9mm revolvers then on the ones that I don't shoot I pull from the moon clips & shoot in my semi-autos.

 

[Gripgrabber]

Hello, thought I would chime in, I'm holding a new ca pit bull has 6 shots 2.5" , SS. Sounds great, but I'm not liking that load one shell at a time, each one has to be pushed all the way in and seated. Not reliable extraction. I got it because I just got a CA bulldog, 44sp. And I love it, 20 oz. of big bore fun! Back to the 9mm, I have a speed six 9mm and prefer the moon clips. Me thinks I'll stick to 38s. Have a 36,60 and carry a LCR in 38 the most.

 

[eb07]

38 special simply because it's been sufficient for 118 years.

 

[rwsmith]

The main consideration....

38 special simply because it's been sufficient for 118 years.

One of the main considerations for going with semis was firepower with 3x more capacity than a revolver and a quick reload. 9mm gets a little more velocity, but they both shoot about the same bullet.

With a J frame I could engage one to as many as five w/o reloading. Four get one each and the last for one that is still kicking. Three get one each and two shots left. Two perps get two shots each and an extra 'just in case'. One perp gets all five. I'm not a big believer in the one shot stop.

 

[Dennis]

I shoot the Fed 124 gold-dots out of my 9mm LCR.
I have a 642 Pro, also. (Moonclips).
When I have the chance, I will be adding the LCR to my License.
Why? Because the trigger is lighter and it lines up quicker for me.
(But watch out for that cylinder-release screw for wanting to back out.)
Either one would be nice for pocket-carry when summer arrives again.

 

[gsn]

I will argue for the 9mm from a snub, faster/more energy/less dramatic at the business end, in short I think the snub was made for the 9 and ammo costs for 9mm is much less than for .38.

Some talk of jump crimp-its a non issue for us try as we can the phenomena cannot be duplicated.

Moonies, ditto a non issue-not needed for the gun to fire (Ruger) and unless you are using +p or the Russian stuff most of the spent rounds will fall out with a shake of the gun.

As for the Ruger LCR .357, caveat emptor -the cylinder is a beast to manipulate but the rest of the gun is typical Ruger, LCR that is.

For civilian self defense the snub in either .38 or 9mm is ideal, easy to carry, any idiot can use one, and it will go bang every time AND 5 or 6 is way way more than one will ever need; the stats back this up.

 

[Mtnfolk325]

As I have previously posted in other threads, I have been carrying & shooting a 9mm LCR for about 16.5 months. During that time I have shot mine many times without Moonclips and have satisfied my question of reliability. I carry it loaded with a Moonclip in a Mika Pocket Holster, a Speed Strip for a 327 with 6 rounds in the watch pocket above the gun & if wearing a cover garment a Spare Moonclip in the strong side pocket. Current carry load is the 147 Grain HST, have been testing with the 147 Gold Dot also. My Son has also pocket carried an 9mm LCR for the past 15 months. Total round count for both is near if not over 1k. Both have the Hogue G10 Grip and XS Standard Dot Night Sights.

 

[Engine49guy]

Alot of good info posted above,
Bottom line for me is I dont like loading unloading moon clips and the money you would save in ammo would be eaten up in the up charge of a 9mm revolver vs same gun in 38 special.

I would add that I do not shoot my J snubs at the range very often, usually only when I get a box of new CCW ammo to test fire it as it isnt as accurate or pleasant to shoot at the range as my 4" Combat Masterpiece.

The ballistic advantage of 9mm over .38 +P exists but is slight and if that is your ultimate concern the .357 Magnum is much more powerful than 9mm +P+ ......On a side note shooting full house .357 Mag in a J frame is not pleasant even in a SS 3" J frame with FG combat stocks ...
And as for as shooting .357 magnum in a 2" Scandium Airweight snub with Magna stocks... uhhh ......No.... Thank You.....No Thanks .

 

[Stopsign32v]

I realize using Moon clips means no "partial reloads" but when using a .38 Spl J-frame, each "shooting string" really should be all about pulling the trigger until the gun stops spitting bullets! This means you yank that trigger five times at the FACE of the attacker. IF you have multiples, THEN you make the mental calculation to apportion bullets, but if you have just ONE....pump that trigger five times!

Nobody with any sense carries a J-frame 5-shot with the notion that they will hold off a small regiment of terrorists. ANYONE leaving home expecting terrorists, should go ahead and "strap up" to a Glock 20 10mm with 16 full-power Underwood loads on tap and at least five spare mags of 15 each!

Anyone expecting terrorists should be carrying REAL 10mm as their bottom line buy-in!

I'm not really a 10mm fan, but all of this is pretty spot on. In real life I can NEVER think of a time someone should ever be faced with a situation to where partial reloads would be a good idea.

 

[Dave Lively]

Ballisticsbytheinch.com says a 124g 9mm GDHP out of a 2" barrel is 1074 fps and a 135g GDHP is 756 fps (although it is advertised a little faster). Energy is an additional factor to consider.

Is that a 2 inch revolver barrel or 2 inch semi-auto barrel? And they are different. The cylinder is not counted on a revolver so if you measure from the base of the bullet to the muzzle a 2 inch revolver has a longer barrel than my Kahr PM9 with a 3 inch barrel.

 

[cleans up]

Is that a 2 inch revolver barrel or 2 inch semi-auto barrel? And they are different. The cylinder is not counted on a revolver so if you measure from the base of the bullet to the muzzle a 2 inch revolver has a longer barrel than my Kahr PM9 with a 3 inch barrel.

Indeed the measurements for wheel guns vs semi are different, but posted values on bbti are for actual length. By some estimation you might take into account the difference. In this case however 9 vs 38 can be directly compare as the original question is 38 vs 9 in a j frame, so both suffer from cylinder gap and take advantage of cylinder length. Perhaps you may argue that 9 has an advantage being the shorter cartridge....but I can't see well enough to split hairs that finely.

Either way there is an advantage to 9 by the numbers, as there is to 357. More meaningful though is questioning if the numbers matter, and many feel they are "close enough for gov work". I'll still take the 9

 

[T2C]

As I have previously posted in other threads, I have been carrying & shooting a 9mm LCR for about 16.5 months. During that time I have shot mine many times without Moonclips and have satisfied my question of reliability. I carry it loaded with a Moonclip in a Mika Pocket Holster, a Speed Strip for a 327 with 6 rounds in the watch pocket above the gun & if wearing a cover garment a Spare Moonclip in the strong side pocket. Current carry load is the 147 Grain HST, have been testing with the 147 Gold Dot also. My Son has also pocket carried an 9mm LCR for the past 15 months. Total round count for both is near if not over 1k. Both have the Hogue G10 Grip and XS Standard Dot Night Sights.

Have you chronographed 9mm defensive loads with your LCR ?

 

[vanman1]

rw, you reminded me of an unanswered question I have concerning energy loss from ignition to flight. I understand it's not a big number and would vary from one pistol to another, even between same models. In a revolver fps are lost due to barrel-cylinder gap. How much energy is used to cycle the semi auto? Another nano number affected by the many variables concerning each pistol. Just curious. Thanks
Merry Christmas to all

 

[wolverine]

rw, you reminded me of an unanswered question I have concerning energy loss from ignition to flight. I understand it's not a big number and would vary from one pistol to another, even between same models. In a revolver fps are lost due to barrel-cylinder gap. How much energy is used to cycle the semi auto? Another nano number affected by the many variables concerning each pistol. Just curious.

Afternoon vanman1

Quite a bit of energy is used to cycle a semi-auto but if the gun is designed correctly & the lock-up delay is designed correctly that energy is used after the bullet leaves the barrel.

If the barrel/slide starts moving before bullet exit that really degrades accuracy.

 

[Moonman]

Try a HARDCAST 148 gr. FULL WADCUTTER.

 

[gsn]

Engine, if you can do so try a lcr in 9 I am confident that this will be enough to convince you, it really is an amazing gun and the cost of 9mm compared to .38 is huge.
The 9 out of a snub has a significant advantage compared to a .38 (which was originally a black powder round) BUT either will dispatch someone intent on doing you harm very quickly, so buy what you shoot best so long as it is a wheel gun. Heck even the lowly .22 will get the job done and the .22 wmr will really get the job done.

 

[Targets Guy]

With a J frame I'll go with a +P. Sometimes when I carry my 60-15 I'll load up the the .357.