J frame shoots low

[Execpro]

I am new to J frame revolvers (last 6 or so years). I got a 38 Special Mod 360J that shoots 3” low at 7 yards off a rest with 130/135gr +P and non +P with 4 different ammo brands ( shooting single action).
I had a 642 and a Taurus M85 that where poa-poi. They could shoot X rings all day at 7 yards.
I have used the combat sight picture on all the pistols and revolvers I have ever owned over 50+ years.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Beemer-mark]

File the front sight down (so it's lower). However J frame revolvers are made for "point of belly shots" so try shooting from a standing position. Big difference in point of impact from firing from a sandbag rest as opposed to standing.

 

[SeamasterSig]

Try it with 158 grain ammo. Isn't that the bullet weight for which J-frames are sighted to hit point of aim?

 

[steelslaver]

Heavier bullet equals more recoil. More recoil causes the muzzle to rise quicker and cause higher bullet strike.

Another thing is grip. I have big hands and wrists and use a firm grip. Most guns used by others shoot low for me. Fixed sight guns shoot low for me.

There is the file the front sight method mentioned. I used it on my CA 44 Bulldog.

 

[Jtown]

Myself, I shoot better offhand than off a rest with a handgun. Do not have a problem with rifles off a rest.
Walt

 

[Kframerbluvr]

Can’t speak for the 360 but my 442 made in ‘13 shoots POA with 130 grain Ranger Bonded +P.
My early ‘70s M60 shoots 3” low at 7 yards with the same load and dead on with 158 grain ammo.

 

[Muss Muggins]

If you are new to J Frame revolvers, let somebody else shoot it before you take a file to the front sight blade . . .

 

[Nevada Ed]

Maybe it is time do more exercises and build up your grip strength
as well as forearm muscles.

Sometimes its not the weapons fault on it's POA.

Just saying.

 

[Execpro]

Thanks for all the good suggestions. I will get a box of 158gr lead swc and see how that works. I never did try shooting it without the rest and the grips are a little thin for my hands (6’4” at 276lbs). The gun is also the lightest I have ever shot. 642@17oz approx.with laser grip- Taurus@21oz and [email protected]. empty.
So:1. Shoot with 158gr bullets.
2. Shoot off rest and free handed(standing).
3. Work on grip for that thin combat grip and look into a thicker grip.
(Both the laser grip on 642 and bull head grip on Taurus are thicker).
4. Have another expert shooter see what they get.
5. Trade the gun off! (Just kidding) I love this revolver!!
And see what happens. I WILL post a follow up when the issue is resolved (It may take a month to get everything done).

Thanks again!
Be SAFE and shoot often! P.S. I promise NO fileing the front sight! I can live with and adjust POA.

 

[OldChief]

All good suggestions but the Mod 36 wasn't designed for pin point accuracy. I've had a 2" for years that shoots low but if I had to use mine for self defense, it would do just what it was designed for. I should also mention that I load nothing less than 158 grain projectiles for all my .38s and .357s.

 

[oink]

I've had a J frame for 30+ years. I don't know whether or not it shoots 3" low at 7 yards. I do know that during practice and qualifications I hit center mass on a silhouette target out to 25 yards with a reasonable pattern. Anyhow, that's all I ever worried about when I carried it. However, I do know that with snake/rat shot it has a 6" pattern at 6'. I wish I was as good with mine as Steve McGarrett was.

 

[OLDSTER]

As others have posted; the J frame ( and K frame for that matter) snubby is a defensive sidearm. No need to be concerned with pin-point accuracy or "tuned" trigger. None of that matters in an adrenaline fueled, survival situation. I've always subscribed to the advice of Massad Ayoob and Clint Smith; snub nosed practice--3, 5, and 7 yards, off hand, rapid fire, 5 or 6 shots in a pie plate ( 5") at the 7 yard target.

 

[gnystrom]

I would never file the front sight. My first response is to just use more front sight in your sight picture. What I did with a Ruger SP101 that shot a little low was to paint the entire front sight white and then cover a bit over half with an overcoat of red. That way I was sure I got a sight picture that was exactly the same every time.

 

[bigggbbruce]

I shoot a little low with my J frame snubs.. and aim just a little higher..

 

[ABPOS]

It might be spot on at 25 yards with that POI. You might want to check.....

 

[Execpro]

Great comments! Going to the range tomorrow. Will shoot 158gr to see what happens and work on my grip.
The gun shot sub 3/4” groups at 7 yards from a rest with Winchester Ranger 130gr+P Bonded LE ammo and Winchester 125gr+P white box.
No issues with accuracy just shooting low. I will also shoot at 10-15 and 25 yards.

gnystrom has an idea I NEVER thought of. I painted the entire black front blade (top only)yellow for visibility but never considered indexing it with white paint.
That’s why I come to this forum. People have great ideas and think outside of the box! THANKS

Be SAFE and shoot often!

 

[ABPOS]

One other idea is sometimes guns are set up to shoot "to the dot" instead of top of post. Which to me is kind of annoying, but sort of useful. For me most of the modern autos I've owned are like this. Glock / Beretta M9 / XD / Hipower.

My 442 is basically top of post. And to the right. But I think that's me.

 

[Execpro]

Will have to research that “to the dot” suggestion. Will try different sight pictures also. Thanks

 

[wrangler5]

If you haven't bought your 158g ammo yet, keep in mind that higher velocity (+P) ammunition tends to shoot lower than standard velocity for the same reason that lighter bullets tend to shoot lower - less bullet time in the barrel and hence less time for the barrel to rise before the bullet leaves the muzzle.

BTW, if you take virtually ANY revolver and lay a straight edge from the top of the rear sight to the top of the front sight, you will see that the barrel points "down", below the line of sight, because the engineers KNOW that the muzzle will rise while the bullet is traveling down the barrel. (Same is true of pistols, but it's usually harder to see the line of the barrel compared to the line of the sights.)

The trick with handguns, especially those with fixed sights, is to find a grip strength, bullet weight and bullet velocity combination that let the muzzle rise just the right amount when YOU shoot it so that the bullet hits the point of aim at your intended distance. Adjustable sight guns give you some leeway, but even they can run out of adjustability if grip strength is badly out of whack or if the distance becomes too great.

Good luck at the range tomorrow.

 

[steelslaver]

Here is a great example of sight height and recoil and barrel time. I made a 1917 into a carbine with 18" barrel and a stock. Figured the front sight high, so I could file it down. Ha ha, I had to go way down even though I had added adjustable rear sight. I didn't think about the stock and weight of longer barrel, keeping the recoil from letting the gun rotate up under recoil. Had a long barrel and hence a long barrel time, but little rotation under recoil. Live and learn.