J-Frame vs. Shield

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Mountain Walker

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Recently purchased a M&P Shield and have been getting used to it. It seems to me that the simple old J-Frame does a pretty good job. Recently participated in a "BUG" gun fun match and did pretty well with my old model 60.

Not seeing that much advantage with the Shield, but I will continue to experiment. The trigger on the Shield is getting better with use, but the over travel after sear release is still causing sight twitch.
 
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The Shield will not fire when pushed into a armed perp because the disconnector will not allow it to fire.In the pocket or in close it may jam and choke .If you get a bad round it will not fire while the J-frame you just pull the trigger one more time. The J-frame is more reliable and a better EDC for CCW and easy operate&service.
 

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I have both. I am an OLD revolver man, so you know my prejudice. Both are good and I have full confidence in each, at least as much confidence as I can have in an S/A handgun. No reason not to trust the Shield has presented itself over quite a few hundred rounds. Each has it's pluses and minuses. The Shield is flatter and carries a bit more ammo. Reloads are larger and easily carried and carried out. I have faith in the 9MM round for personal defense.

My favorite revolver for edc is a model 640-1, not because it will fire .357 mags but because it is stainless steel and it really works for me with the slightly longer barrel and a set of Pachs installed. I am fully comfortable with the five rounds chambered and experienced and at peace with reloading if necessary. I have full confidence in good .38 Special ammo and usually carry Speer 135 grain Gold Dots for business.

I shoot each about equally these days, given my diminishing eyesight and open sights. My personal feeling is that I have more confidence in the revolver (any of them) while still having enough confidence in the Shield to carry it without reservation. The effectiveness of either is basically dependent on my ability to deliver rounds to the most effective and incapacitating location. As far as triggers are concerned, I have fired my revolvers in the double action mode for a very great many years, and all mine have good smooth actions by design. The trigger on the Shield is more than acceptable for serious social encounters and is not difficult to get used to with acceptable pull weight as compared to the revolvers. There is a transition that must be made between the revolver and Shield triggers but that transition is not difficult for me. I practice equally with both, and at the same time.

If you must make a choice between the two, you need to make that decision for yourself after having made your own comparisons. I carry both in IWB holsters with a double thickness belt. Each carries and deploys very well and each conceals pretty much equally well. Again, you must choose what works best for you.

For me, I am comfortable trusting my life to either handgun. But my revolvers make me smile, so my preference is for the steel J Frame or sometimes a steel K frame Model 10 with a three inch barrel. It's a matter of the heart!!!!
 
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Given these choices, I much prefer the j frame.

That said, shooting a j frame well takes more time, effort and practice than a shield.

J frames are significantly less fussy than the shield (or most pistols).

Likewise, nd's are much less frequent with revolvers than pistols.
 
I cut my teeth on semi-autos before discovering revolvers. When shooting at the range, I wrap up with my EDC Shield 40. It's like I slip back into my comfort zone. I'll carry my 638 eventually, but I doubt it will ever replace my Shield as my primary EDC.
 
I have 8 J Frames and a 9mm Shield. I have to say, I love the Shield. It is incredibly accurate, mine has been 100% reliable through hundreds of rounds. Excellent power to weight ratio, and power to size ratio.

I liked mine so much I did the whole Apex trigger upgrade to mine and now I have a 3.5lb trigger on it with the shortest reset I have ever had on a semi auto. It is the Apex competition trigger. ABout $160 for all the parts. Did the install myself, actually my buddy helped me out on that one.

I also installed some Warren Tactical Fiber optic sights on my Shield.

Though my Shield might be the best carry gun I own due to its size and power ratio, I never carry it. I just like carrying K/L Frame revolvers. I don't even carry any of my J Frames anymore, except if I feel like I need a BUG.

Here are a couple of threads I wrote about the Shield on this forum:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/385675-shield-9mm-review-very-impressed.html

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/397561-modded-my-shield-wow.html
 
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I carried a 442 for 40+ years, I keep trying to go to an auto but always seem to end up with the 442 back in my holster.
"J's" are nice for carry, and they always work.
 
jeeps said:
Our Chief shot himself in the leg holstering his SW 40 Shield.Medina Police Chief & ex-ATF supervisor Patrick Berarducci accidently shoots self in right leg | cleveland.com I like the J-frame period. Plastic wonders no-thanks.
Click to expand...

Me too--either a cocked & locked semi-auto or a double action revolver. Hard to beat a J-Frame in a pocket for deep concealment.

A local guy (former military and current CC holder) shot himself in the leg with an XD, much like the above story. He also kept his finger out of the trigger guard, just like that chief.

There is inherent safety in a ~10lb revolver trigger pull or a manual safety during administrative tasks like holstering that Glocks/XDs/safetyless M&Ps or Shields lack.
 
Yes 1911 45 or 38 super or Browning Hi-power and or a Snubby 442,640-1 or Colt detective. My safe zone. Our top gun Swat Carbine instructor all so shot himself with a Glock 17.
 
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jeeps said:
Our Chief shot himself in the leg holstering his SW 40 Shield.Medina Police Chief & ex-ATF supervisor Patrick Berarducci accidently shoots self in right leg | cleveland.com I like the J-frame period. Plastic wonders no-thanks.
Click to expand...

No offense, but it is totally 100% HIS fault. He could have done the same thing with any gun, even a J Frame. Not fair to blame the Shield at all in this case. The trigger is the safety. You pull the trigger, it fires. This is universally true for all guns barring a malfunction.

I carry a revolver daily. Usually a K/L Frame, and a J for back up sometimes. But I would not hesitate to carry the Shield. It is an excellent gun regardless of price. And for the money you can't beat it.

No one likes revolvers more than me. But they are not for everyone. And J Frames are a terrible choice for new shooters. My wife just got her CCW, there is a 9mm Shield waiting under the tree for her as I type. J Frames are not for beginners, they require a significant amount of practice and training to use well. Most folks who buy a J Frame do not practice enough to use them well. Recoil is very sharp, which is not good for recoil sensitive newer shooters.

I am not just talking out of my ***, just truth telling here. I have introduced dozens upon dozens of people to shooting over the last 25 years. Invariably they shoot J Frames very poorly. Often they are not even able to hit the target at 7 to 15 yards with a full cylinder. In 100% of the cases they do much better with a semi 9mm and a larger revolver. The little J frame is truly for advanced shooters.
 
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HarrishMasher said:
No offense, but it is totally 100% HIS fault. He could have done the same thing with any gun, even a J Frame. Not fair to blame the Shield at all in this case. The trigger is the safety. You pull the trigger, it fires. This is universally true for all guns barring a malfunction.
Click to expand...

I think that is a disingenuous statement. The chief in the story did not pull the trigger. The local guy in my story did not pull the trigger. There are other stories like this, too. Light triggers are easier to actuate. Easier to actuate even by a slight fold of leather or a drawstring from a coat.

It is entirely reasonable to insert a pistol into a holster with 5lbs of force. It is substantially less reasonable to insert a pistol using 10lbs of force or more, which is what it would take to discharge a double action revolver. A semi auto with an engaged manual safety is impossible to discharge in this fashion.

Some firearm designs are indeed simply safer. Since analogies are fun and it's Christmas time: it's just like walking around with a glass Christmas ornament in a pocket contrasted with carrying a plastic ornament--sure we can blame the carrier for being careless if he breaks his ornament, but the carrier would have been significantly less likely to break the plastic Christmas ornament and if broken it wouldn't result in glass shards in his pocket.
 
I carry a shield when I'm dressed up nice but if I'm running around town doing random stuff I carry my 586 4 inch. I am proficient with both. And though I love my 586 I like to carry my shield because the wife is comfortable with it and better with it then the revolver. So if something was to happen to me she could handle the situation without a second thought. Both are awesome firearms never had a problem with either. Very happy with my shield. Comfortable and accurate.
 
It's funny how you can go full circle on some things. I started out with a snub model 60 as my carry gun. Then it was a PPK, Sig P230, 3913 to a G26, LCP, compact 1911, Shield and a bunch of others that I can't remember.

Here we are over 20 years later and I'm back to a .38 snub for carry (S&W 637). I've been carrying it now for about a year and a half. I like the way it looks and shoots. I like the accuracy, reliability, size and weight. It is the one and only gun I own that gives me 100% confidence in everything I'm looking for in a carry gun. Some others come close, but not close enough.

I spent a lot of money (although it was fun), and maybe I'm just a slow learner, but after 20 some years I've finally come to the conclusion that the J frame airweight snubby is the absolute best without peers for the intended purpose. At least for me anyways...
 
Waywatcher said:
I think that is a disingenuous statement. The chief in the story did not pull the trigger. The local guy in my story did not pull the trigger. There are other stories like this, too. Light triggers are easier to actuate. Easier to actuate even by a slight fold of leather or a drawstring from a coat.

It is entirely reasonable to insert a pistol into a holster with 5lbs of force. It is substantially less reasonable to insert a pistol using 10lbs of force or more, which is what it would take to discharge a double action revolver. A semi auto with an engaged manual safety is impossible to discharge in this fashion.

Some firearm designs are indeed simply safer. Since analogies are fun and it's Christmas time: it's just like walking around with a glass Christmas ornament in a pocket contrasted with carrying a plastic ornament--sure we can blame the carrier for being careless if he breaks his ornament, but the carrier would have been significantly less likely to break the plastic Christmas ornament and if broken it wouldn't result in glass shards in his pocket.
Click to expand...

I get what you are saying but I think the biggest problem here is poor holster choice, granted it would have been harder for it to happen on a handgun with a DA trigger.
 
Yes pistols like the Shield and Block ,XD are prone to Accidental discharge more so than other pistols. And if you get the safety model shield it is too small to operate fast. Our local body shop has had to fix a half dozen PD cars with bullet holes through the seat and floor from disharges from there SW Mp auto's. And these are police not untrained John Doe CCW or Web Commando's who know all accidents waiting to happen.
 
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I have had and carried a model 60 pro and a shield. love them both but sold the shield to buy my wife her carry gun. physically the model 60 is more comfortable to carry for me. the back end of a striker fired gun drives me nuts when my forearm rubs it. plus I trust a revolver more.
cant beat my 60 in my opinion
 
John R said:
I carried a 442 for 40+ years, I keep trying to go to an auto but always seem to end up with the 442 back in my holster.
"J's" are nice for carry, and they always work.
Click to expand...

I know what you probably meant to say, cause I've carried a J frame of some sort for the last 38 years (60, 640, 638, 642) but I don't think the 442 was around in 1974.
 
I love the J frame, but as soon as I got my Shield I relegated my 642 to being a car gun. Just as easy to carry, more capacity/better round, faster reloads, and easier to shoot.

There will always be a place for a J frame. I can slip it in a coat pocket, I have the DeSantis "clip grips" if I decide I need a quick tuck in the waistband piece, and it's perfect for tucking in a bike jersey or pocket of hiking pants, but I've found that modern guns like the shield have some pretty hefty benefits.
 
If you are talking BUG, carry the one that matches your primary gun's caliber. I don't have a shield, but I have a 9mm PPS Walther. Most of the time I have a J frame in my pocket. Ed
 
I lean towards the model 60, because it's all I have right Now haha. But if'n I get my way I will use it as a winter carry and an XDS for summer (cuz in Vegas you sweat and only a polymer gun will do). I read something the other day on here that really got me thinking, it said "you'll have to be accountable for your shots" I had never thought of that before really. I'd rather have 5 and make myself calm down and think vs. a spray and pray, not that the Shield has that many more, but you can catch my drift right? All that aside, I just think revolvers are BA and manly.
 
I have owned a 60 for 40 years , mostly carry a Seecamp now . I bought a shield 9 , no problems at all . I gave it to my son in law , put the biggest smile on his face . The shield is a great little nine.

Jake
 
Rpg said:
Likewise, nd's are much less frequent with revolvers than pistols.
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Actually, this is an important point. Very slim chance a civilian will have to use his CCW for personal defense. More likely to have a ND and the revolver has a better reputation.
 
Waywatcher said:
I think that is a disingenuous statement. The chief in the story did not pull the trigger. The local guy in my story did not pull the trigger. There are other stories like this, too. Light triggers are easier to actuate. Easier to actuate even by a slight fold of leather or a drawstring from a coat.

It is entirely reasonable to insert a pistol into a holster with 5lbs of force. It is substantially less reasonable to insert a pistol using 10lbs of force or more, which is what it would take to discharge a double action revolver. A semi auto with an engaged manual safety is impossible to discharge in this fashion.

Some firearm designs are indeed simply safer. Since analogies are fun and it's Christmas time: it's just like walking around with a glass Christmas ornament in a pocket contrasted with carrying a plastic ornament--sure we can blame the carrier for being careless if he breaks his ornament, but the carrier would have been significantly less likely to break the plastic Christmas ornament and if broken it wouldn't result in glass shards in his pocket.
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct. It is much easier to pull a trigger on a Glock or a Shield than a 12lb J Frame trigger. But in all honesty, it doesn't matter. A trigger is a trigger and when it gets pulled your gun is going to fire. That is why when you are holstering your gun, you do it very carefully. If your gun goes off when you are holstering it, regardless of the weight of the trigger pull, it is 100% your fault. There are no exceptions to this.

And when you holster a gun that you KNOW has a lighter trigger, you do it that much more cautiously. I know when I am carrying one of my guns with a light trigger, I put it in my holster extra carefully. I do it so carefully it is to the point I am neurotic about it. And that is a good thing.

I own over a dozen revolvers. All have trigger jobs. Some have competition trigger jobs and have a 4 to 5lb DA trigger pull, just like a Glock. You better believe I am watching those slide in my holster nice and safely every time they go in. And clearly this officer was not doing that. The gun is not to blame AT ALL. 100% his fault.
 
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