The Galco did end up causing an ND. Shooting the fellow in the behind.
Thanks, I just finished one in blue jean tone.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/gun-leather-carry-gear/408077-new-holster.html
J-Frame vs. Shield
- Thread starter Mountain Walker
- Start date
Thanks, I just finished one in blue jean tone.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/gun-leather-carry-gear/408077-new-holster.html
HarrishMasher
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2011
- Messages
- 1,721
- Reaction score
- 2,654
Wow, I am glad I came back to check this thread. That blue-jean holster is awesome. Can you PM me your info, maybe a link to your website if you have one?
mauiblue
Member
Of all the handguns I've owned, my Model 638 Airweight has been the most difficult to master. I need to have my target at the most 7 yards away for me to stay within a 8" diameter target. Point of impact is way different from my point of aim. I know my J frame is not a target gun for precise shooting but I would at least hope to hit a pie plate at 10 yards.
I just need to practice more.
Boogsawaste
Member
I think my shield is a fine firearm, but if the right j frame came along and wanted to trade, I'm not sure I could help myself. Not taking anything away from the shield, I'm just a revolveraholic...
Either gun had pluses and minuses. Both should serve you well.
Either gun had pluses and minuses. Both should serve you well.
Waywatcher
Member
The revolver is quite capable, I assure you. Here is a target I shot from 7 yards with my Airweight (442)--10 rounds, standing, double action, with +P defensive ammo. Less than 1.5" group and the square of duct tape was my POA.
HarrishMasher
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2011
- Messages
- 1,721
- Reaction score
- 2,654
Yes they are definitely capable. While I own 8 J Frames, My M&P340 is the one I shoot best. It is due to the excellent sights from the factory, which are very different from typical J Frame snubby sights. XS Big Dot Front Sight and the deep rear groove U Notch Sight...much than typical J Frame airweight snubby sights.
J Frame snubbies are actually very accurate guns. The problem is the sights are usually poor, recoil sensitve shooters have a very hard time controlling follow up shots, and ergonomics of the small revolver.
This is a typical group at 25 feet:
Here is a picture of the sights of the M&P340:
J Frame snubbies are actually very accurate guns. The problem is the sights are usually poor, recoil sensitve shooters have a very hard time controlling follow up shots, and ergonomics of the small revolver.
This is a typical group at 25 feet:
Here is a picture of the sights of the M&P340:
Last edited:
Rick_A
Member
It is said that most J frames snubs are capable of 1" groups at 25 yards in a ransom rest.
I have observed that most folks can put shots within a pie plate circle at 7.
These are typical, not best results for me.
Fifteen yards.
The vertical dispersion is due to a shift in my grip after reloading.
Usually the results are the same for twenty or twenty five yards.
I used to shoot better back when I was expending copious amounts of ammo a month. These days it's as good as it gets with anything, unfortunately
I have observed that most folks can put shots within a pie plate circle at 7.
These are typical, not best results for me.
Fifteen yards.
The vertical dispersion is due to a shift in my grip after reloading.
Usually the results are the same for twenty or twenty five yards.
I used to shoot better back when I was expending copious amounts of ammo a month. These days it's as good as it gets with anything, unfortunately
M3Stuart
Member
I carry my 60. I also do not do trigger jobs on my J frame carry guns.
The shield is fine and I've thought about getting one.
Regarding ADs: I also do not care who, or what, is at 'fault'. It's all mental, but a 5 lb trigger is just too easy to AD in my humble opinion. So I choose the stiffer 10 lb+ DA trigger(s) for my carry gun(s).
The shield is fine and I've thought about getting one.
Regarding ADs: I also do not care who, or what, is at 'fault'. It's all mental, but a 5 lb trigger is just too easy to AD in my humble opinion. So I choose the stiffer 10 lb+ DA trigger(s) for my carry gun(s).
mauiblue
Member
I'm apologizes to the OP for getting off topic but I just wanted to add that after seeing how well the J frame revolver can perform, I'm thinking that my Model 638 Airweight may as well be defective. Seriously. There is no way I'm getting the kind of performance from my revolver. I will be sending my revolver back to Smith and Wesson just to give it a once over. It may have a canted barrel. Thanks to all that posted.
Boogsawaste
Member
You will be able to see if the barrel is canted by eying it up. Also, it takes LOTS of practice to shoot j frames well. Let a buddy shoot yours (hopefully somebody who can shoot j's good), or shoot off a bench single action if possible. Not saying it's not defective, but it takes a lot to master those little buggers.
Waywatcher
Member
A canted barrel would result in groups off to one side or the other, but not abnormally large groups.
Can you shoot small groups with any double action revolver? I ask seriously. They're not easy to shoot well without some practice--especially the small, lightweight j frames. I also agree that you should have somebody else shoot with it to verify that it is indeed the gun, unless you have a lot of experience shooting revolvers and are completely confident thit couldn't be you.
HarrishMasher
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2011
- Messages
- 1,721
- Reaction score
- 2,654
Chances are there is nothing wrong with your Airweight. It takes a tremendous amount of practice to shoot an Airweight like you see in the previous pics. Thousands and thousands of rounds of practice. I'm not trying to offend you or suggest you are not a seasoned shooter. I'm saying unless you have practiced with your Airweight once a week for months and months, and have put 200 to 400 rounds a month through it, it is probably not the gun. Because that is what it takes to be able to shoot tiny groups with it.
When I started shooting my airweights years ago, there were no groups, just random holes all over a 2' x 2' target when I actually hit the target. Put 50 rounds a week through it for a few months, if you cannot group with it, then send it back to Smith.
This is why I always say a snubby 38 is not a gun for beginners, because it is very hard to shoot well and takes a lot of practice to shoot well, and most are not willing to put in the time to become proficient with it.
Last edited:
TailRunner
Member
jeeps, what make is the rubber black grip on your J frame?
Waywatcher
Member
I'm not jeeps (obviously) but I do know those grips--they are Uncle Mike's (later Butler Creek) rubber grips designed by Craig Spegel. They are no longer in production and command a handsome premium on the used market.
I like both. Have a Shield 9 and a 642
I carry both depending on clothes and what I am doing. I practice with both and feel either will do the job.
I use the thumb safety on the Shield. I carry in a REMORA IWB and I am used to the thumb safety from other pistols I have carried. I train to use it and that works for me.
I have a 642 that is great for IWB also in a REMORA.
Both holster easily in the REMORA's. A well fitted holster is key to holster safety.
I also have an XD that I carry in a SERPA CQC. I have found that to be a good match for retention and ease of holstering.
Either way, it is all preference of the user, I think.
Have fun and stay safe.
I carry both depending on clothes and what I am doing. I practice with both and feel either will do the job.
I use the thumb safety on the Shield. I carry in a REMORA IWB and I am used to the thumb safety from other pistols I have carried. I train to use it and that works for me.
I have a 642 that is great for IWB also in a REMORA.
Both holster easily in the REMORA's. A well fitted holster is key to holster safety.
I also have an XD that I carry in a SERPA CQC. I have found that to be a good match for retention and ease of holstering.
Either way, it is all preference of the user, I think.
Have fun and stay safe.
For me, I find I need a pocket-size revolver that's easy to carry in hot weather in light clothing. It's the difference between carrying and not carrying. The Shield almost gets me there, but not quite. I can shoot it better than my J frames with its larger grip and longer sight plane, but it's just a little too big to pocket and I can't master the heavy stock trigger in the way I am used to an S&W double-action revolver. In anything but hot weather, I carry a lightweight Commander-style S&W PC1911. It's easy to conceal with the round butt and alloy frame and operating the 1911 is burned into my nervous system. I like the Shield OK and considered it long and hard but it's too big for my jeans pocket, so if I'm going to holster a gun, I'll go with the 1911 carried in a Galco Combat Master instead of a smaller automatic. I've also considered the Officer's Model and the 3" 1911's, but they are no more concealable than the round butt Commander - some of them less so. It's not likely one would be outgunned with a well-tuned Commander, but if I'm in light clothes, the J frame goes into my pocket. Less than a pound fully loaded, it becomes second nature. I even have to remind myself it's there.
Last edited:
M3Stuart
Member
Not sure its your J-frame. I get a lot of variation depending on the gun. On this target I rented a Shield, a Glock 26 and a Glock 19 to compare to my CZ 75B.
They are shot in order: Shield, 26, 19 then CZ. (The blue circles are 3" in diameter).
I attribute the Shield's impact(s) to the trigger (I had to pull it harder than any of the others), The 26 has that super short grip, so I just never could really get the hang of it. The 19 has the best grouping and is just a natural shooter with a nice light trigger. The CZ has the least recoil and I got my normal 3" pattern at 7 yards so it is the best 'range gun' in my book.
The 642, I'll blame the trigger, I just cannot shoot it as accurately as a steel frame gun - especially one I can shoot in SA.
Now note my 642 rapid fire target. That's point shooting, one handed, 100 rounds at self defense distances. Two to the torso, one to the head. Not nearly as good as the two handed targets above from the aimed 642, 60-9, 66 or those 9's, but, in my book anyway, totally effective. Towards the end of that session they started going further and further away from the center at 7 yards. At 3-5 yards - totally effective. Oh, and that killed my hand!
They are shot in order: Shield, 26, 19 then CZ. (The blue circles are 3" in diameter).
I attribute the Shield's impact(s) to the trigger (I had to pull it harder than any of the others), The 26 has that super short grip, so I just never could really get the hang of it. The 19 has the best grouping and is just a natural shooter with a nice light trigger. The CZ has the least recoil and I got my normal 3" pattern at 7 yards so it is the best 'range gun' in my book.
The 642, I'll blame the trigger, I just cannot shoot it as accurately as a steel frame gun - especially one I can shoot in SA.
Now note my 642 rapid fire target. That's point shooting, one handed, 100 rounds at self defense distances. Two to the torso, one to the head. Not nearly as good as the two handed targets above from the aimed 642, 60-9, 66 or those 9's, but, in my book anyway, totally effective. Towards the end of that session they started going further and further away from the center at 7 yards. At 3-5 yards - totally effective. Oh, and that killed my hand!
Attachments
Last edited:
Takes lotsa practice to shoot a J frame with anything resembling accuracy. Both dry fire and live fire. I've installed a LaserLyte side mounted laser on my carry 442 to help with practicing my trigger pull while dry firing.
With my peripheral neuropathy, I've been diagnosed with profound weakness in my right hand and moderate weakness in my left hand. I can still do this;
From about this far away;
With this;
I have done some trigger work and changed the grip to a Pachmayr Compact but It also takes a lot of trigger control practice.
With my peripheral neuropathy, I've been diagnosed with profound weakness in my right hand and moderate weakness in my left hand. I can still do this;
From about this far away;
With this;
I have done some trigger work and changed the grip to a Pachmayr Compact but It also takes a lot of trigger control practice.
ginzo
Member
Great Shooting!
I just got a set of these grips and put them on my 638 today. Back to the range to see if they make a difference. I still haven't found the proper sight picture with mine.
If I look down the valley and line up the front sight like a 3 dot, I feel like I'm pointing down hill. Gonna paint some of the front sight ramp as soon as I find the correct POA.
I just got a set of these grips and put them on my 638 today. Back to the range to see if they make a difference. I still haven't found the proper sight picture with mine.
If I look down the valley and line up the front sight like a 3 dot, I feel like I'm pointing down hill. Gonna paint some of the front sight ramp as soon as I find the correct POA.
Takes lotsa practice to shoot a J frame with anything resembling accuracy. Both dry fire and live fire. I've installed a LaserLyte side mounted laser on my carry 442 to help with practicing my trigger pull while dry firing.
With my peripheral neuropathy, I've been diagnosed with profound weakness in my right hand and moderate weakness in my left hand. I can still do this;
From about this far away;
With this;
I have done some trigger work and changed the grip to a Pachmayr Compact but It also takes a lot of trigger control practice.
