Gear up, flaps up make for a messy landing. It looks like it slid into the localizer transmitter (course guidance for an instrument approach) before bursting into flames. If the PIC (captain) lived he has some serious questions to answer.
Jeju Air Has Some Splaing to do
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Olny two people lived, they were crewmembers and were riding in the tail section.Everyone else perished,tragically.
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They're saying only two survivors, both crew members that were seated in the tail. Unclear what happened. Possible landing gear failure. Possible bird strike.
OP
I doubt a bird strike could defeat the redundant systems for gear and flaps on that 737-800. Only speculation at this moment of course. Even if they lost both engines they still had an APU.
They're claiming bird strike.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi4JzUlYsko&t=5s&ab_channel=MaximusAviation[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi4JzUlYsko&t=5s&ab_channel=MaximusAviation[/ame]
OP
Gear should have been down and flaps at approach setting several miles out at approximately 1500' AGL (above ground level), although it was reported that this was the second attempt to land so the A/C configuration may have been cleaned up for the go-around (gear up). The flight data recorder has been recovered but not the CVR (cockpit voice recorder). We wait until all the pieces of the puzzle are put together. BTW, the Boing 737 can fly on one engine with a properly skilled pilot at the controls.
Tough to watch, I don't want to imagine what those at the controls thought with no chance to change the outcome.
DWalt
Member
Seems that a major issue is why was there an obstruction off the runway? Described as a concrete wall or fence.
LVSteve
Member
Small countries with less space frequently have stuff near the end of runways that would give the average Anglo-Saxon safety guy a fit of the vapors.
This is a serious discussion concerning this tragic accident but….. your “……fit of the vapors” just made me chuckle .
Here’s Juan Brown’s initial assessment:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzmptA6s-1g[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzmptA6s-1g[/ame]
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OP
Thank you CH4. Mr. Brown's detailed explanation of the 737-800 systems is very helpful in understanding what likely happened yesterday, although it may be a little over technical for the normal viewer. He confirmed much of what I speculated on in previous posts. Of course, there is much we do not know at this time. I believe the CVR will be the key to discovering why they landed in this manner.
Aircraft accident investigations may seem to some to be devoid of emotional consideration of lives lost but it is that loss that drives the stone cold search for the facts, of the technical nature and of what we call human factors. Time will tell.
Aircraft accident investigations may seem to some to be devoid of emotional consideration of lives lost but it is that loss that drives the stone cold search for the facts, of the technical nature and of what we call human factors. Time will tell.
And I was going to fly for the first time this summer/fall; then two airplanes, the latest one supposedly very reliable, which I must agree with the professionals, crash & burn. I doubt a flight to San Antonio would be shot down, but now we wait for the cause of this wreck. I feel bad for all those people & their families, but I have no large body of water to fly over...My little Ford "truck" (Maverick) is brand new. So far I trust it more than a plane traveling, like, many MPH and pretty high up that can't just pull over if something goes wrong. Maybe give me some of whatever they shot up BA with on the A-Team.
Let's hope we don't hear about any more in 2025. That's just horrible.
Let's hope we don't hear about any more in 2025. That's just horrible.
Your odds of dying in a car crash are about 1/5,000. About 120 die daily in the US.
Your odds of dying in a plane crash are about 1/11,000,000. They just make the news.
I might have missed it but did not hear any comment about how far down the runway the plane landed, although he did state the plane landed long. One report this morning stated that the plane did not touch down until mid-runway, giving them just 1 mile instead of 2 miles to stop. Another report stated that of the 2 mile runway was reduced to 8000 feet due to construction work. Without thrust reversers and tires on the ground to brake the plane would have easily cleared 1 mile of runway still at a fairly high speed into the perimeter wall.
ACORN
Member
Get the Flight Radar app or similar and look at how many aircraft are in flight at any given hour. Too many to count.
I like the odds.
OP
The Muan airport runway is 2800 meters. By my calculations that's about 9100 feet. If I had to land there gear up I would be shooting for the threshold and not be worrying about a smooth touch down. If the captain had remembered to put his flaps all the way down he could have come in much slower.
But then if he had remembered to put his gear back down he would have had brakes too.
I checked the NOTAMs. There was nothing about construction reducing the runway length.
But then if he had remembered to put his gear back down he would have had brakes too.
I checked the NOTAMs. There was nothing about construction reducing the runway length.
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While it certainly appears to be pilot error don't be too quick rushing to judgement. What's the first rule in the event of a catastrophic situation?..."fly the **** airplane and asses the problem," which doesn't appear to be an option in the crew rushing to get the non-configured AC on the ground.
Hopefully the CVR is intact will answer many questions
Hopefully the CVR is intact will answer many questions
Bird Strike
While you are correct about the gear and flaps being down, they had indeed initiated a go around, I believe it would be throttle up, gear up, flaps to take off, and once they had established a positive rate of climb? flaps up.. so that explains the clean airplane. At some point while preparing for their second approach, they declare a "bird strike"? So, while unlikely, its possible they did indeed have a double flame out,, and they would have kept the airplane clean to extend their glide and make the runway, that the gear and flaps were NOT extended, (yes, that is crazy), leads me to believe they had a serious "freak out" in the cockpit?
I didn't check the weather? but that approach is very fast, it just takes seconds to select full flaps and gear down, which it doesn't appear they did?? Lots of questions, but very few answers at this point, so let's wait and see wait the accident investigation shows.
And that damnable retaining wall?? that's insane, really it is, that a modern country like South Korea wouldn't have considered the possible outcomes of that. There are localizer antennas on both ends of the runway, they are typically designed to break off, as history has shown, lots of folks undershoot their approach.. so we wait, billy
terrible, terrible and preventable, I mean the airplane arrived at the runway, on the centerline and under control?? it's likely they were high when they "broke out" on approach? so at that speed, even if they had lost one engine, they would have, should have, could have initiated another missed approach?
So after listening to Juan's video, the weather was great, and it appears that at least one engine was still running, may have only been making partial power.. also on the first go around, Juan points out the compressor stall as they climb away. so some very good information there,, as Juan points out, they seemed to be in a big hurry to get on the ground and likely did NOT run through the full check list, and as I stated earlier, they could have likely initiated another go around when they realized how fast they actually were on that second approach?? lots of questions, but Juan's video does have some good insight.
While you are correct about the gear and flaps being down, they had indeed initiated a go around, I believe it would be throttle up, gear up, flaps to take off, and once they had established a positive rate of climb? flaps up.. so that explains the clean airplane. At some point while preparing for their second approach, they declare a "bird strike"? So, while unlikely, its possible they did indeed have a double flame out,, and they would have kept the airplane clean to extend their glide and make the runway, that the gear and flaps were NOT extended, (yes, that is crazy), leads me to believe they had a serious "freak out" in the cockpit?
I didn't check the weather? but that approach is very fast, it just takes seconds to select full flaps and gear down, which it doesn't appear they did?? Lots of questions, but very few answers at this point, so let's wait and see wait the accident investigation shows.
And that damnable retaining wall?? that's insane, really it is, that a modern country like South Korea wouldn't have considered the possible outcomes of that. There are localizer antennas on both ends of the runway, they are typically designed to break off, as history has shown, lots of folks undershoot their approach.. so we wait, billy
terrible, terrible and preventable, I mean the airplane arrived at the runway, on the centerline and under control?? it's likely they were high when they "broke out" on approach? so at that speed, even if they had lost one engine, they would have, should have, could have initiated another missed approach?
So after listening to Juan's video, the weather was great, and it appears that at least one engine was still running, may have only been making partial power.. also on the first go around, Juan points out the compressor stall as they climb away. so some very good information there,, as Juan points out, they seemed to be in a big hurry to get on the ground and likely did NOT run through the full check list, and as I stated earlier, they could have likely initiated another go around when they realized how fast they actually were on that second approach?? lots of questions, but Juan's video does have some good insight.
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