Jeju Air Has Some Splaing to do

[BillyMagg]

Sully flew the aircraft to a very beautiful ditching

not at all, they have to manually start the APU, and they have to have the engines running for start up.

remember the "miracle on the hudson"? The only think sullenberger actually did was turn the APU on. The plane computers flew the plane down ito the river.

Actually, Sully flew that bird down to the water, executed a perfect flare and touch down, Sully was/is an old head, and a very cool customer...

 

[Retired W4]

The weather at the time was very good, with near calm winds. The first attempt was in one direction (forget which way) and the second attempt was in the opposite direction, for some unknown reason. Yes, the CVR should be very interesting with lots of expletives not deleted. Of course it will be in Korean so we can use google interpreter like I did to read the NOTAMs. NTSB and Boeing (sp?) are busy helping with the investigation.

 

[DWalt]

Regardless of all other so-far unexplained aircraft failure occurrences, the proximate cause of all those deaths appears to be the presence of a man-made obstruction off the end of the runway.

 

[Kinman]

Following those crashes of Boeing's newer plane I asked a guys I know that flew for airlines what they thought was going on. Both guys flew military, one a Marine, the other Air Force. The Marine got out years ago and is my age, the Air Force guy flew F-16's and retired a few years ago. Both guys didn't even hesitate when they said "No flying experience." Both said that most US Airline pilots are ex military and have thousands of hours "flying." Most non US Airline pilots learn to fly in a simulator and have very little experience dealing with emergencies. They both said the first thing those pilots should have done is turn the electronics off and flown the plane out of trouble. Probably something similar happened in this instance, there are so many redundancies built into modern aircraft that even with the loss of major hydraulic pumps there are electric pump back-ups although not as powerful still capable of working the landing gear, flaps, thrusters. One of the things you learn if your doing any serious racing and something goes wrong and you loose control of the vehicle "Keep Driving." All of your training and experience comes into play and you just may be able to avoid getting not only yourself but others injured. I've personally watched people take their hands off the wheel and throw their hands in the air, screaming.

 

[SMSgt]

I will wait until all you aeronautical experts are done analyzing the cause of the accident.

 

[Retired W4]

Regardless of all other so-far unexplained aircraft failure occurrences, the proximate cause of all those deaths appears to be the presence of a man-made obstruction off the end of the runway.

If the aircraft had been properly configured for landing and they touched down at the proper spot (and speed), they would not have run off the end of the runway. There will probably be several contributing factors, but pilot error might be the main cause of the accident.

As for the localizer transmitter being mounted on that wall? STUPID ! If I landed at Muan, the first place I would go after exiting the cockpit is the airport manager's office to level a complaint. Even if you hit it at 20 knots you would incur serious damage to you aircraft.

 

[BillyMagg]

I should have at least watched Juan's video

I will wait until all you aeronautical experts are done analyzing the cause of the accident.

I'm sure we will get a more complete picture of what went on prior that that gorgeous airplane being torn apart by the berm supporting the ILS..

Since my Dad was an Air Force pilot, I was always concerned about aviation accidents and their causes. I suppose in the back of my young mind, I was always fearful that one day our family would get that call. In fact I had recuring nightmares of watching plane crashes, then being unable to move or help at all.

When we lived on LRAFB, we lived in Senior Enlisted housing, as my Dad really didn't want us exposed to "Snob Hill".. when USAF closed Sewart AFB, Tn, my Dad helped move the school house to Little Rock AFB, AR.. all the young officers lived around us, so I had quite a yard care business, mowing, edging, and hedge trimming. I had visited with one of our new neighbors, and agreed to mow his yard, but before that happened, he was killed in a fiery C-130 crash right on the end of the runway.. he was one of the last airplanes in a large en-trail formation, and he attempted to climb out over the prop wash/wake turbulence, sadly he stalled the airplane, and they "spun in".

I didn't want to see his wife, so I never mowed his yard, I still feel bad about that even as I type this post. I have been a GA pilot all of my adult life, and flying has always been a passion of mine, in fact working evening's at Klem's Aero Repair was my 4th job, I gave a cart start to one of our customer's who flew an MU-2 for film, checks, and an overnight investment paper.. I even flew right seat with him, and loved flying that little screamer. One afternoon, I drove into the parking lot, and the Mitsubishi was gone, I laid under the Illinois State Police Cessna 414 and cried like a baby as I put it back together after a 100 hour inspection, it is personal for me, and I'm broken hearted every time it happens.

So as much as I love flying, I truly do, I never forget that flying is a dangerous business, and an even more dangerous hobby.

 

[Retired W4]

I'm sure we will get a more complete picture of what went on prior that that gorgeous airplane being torn apart by the berm supporting the ILS..

Since my Dad was an Air Force pilot, I was always concerned about aviation accidents and their causes. I suppose in the back of my young mind, I was always fearful that one day our family would get that call. In fact I had recuring nightmares of watching plane crashes, then being unable to move or help at all.

When we lived on LRAFB, we lived in Senior Enlisted housing, as my Dad really didn't want us exposed to "Snob Hill".. when USAF closed Sewart AFB, Tn, my Dad helped move the school house to Little Rock AFB, AR.. all the young officers lived around us, so I had quite a yard care business, mowing, edging, and hedge trimming. I had visited with one of our new neighbors, and agreed to mow his yard, but before that happened, he was killed in a fiery C-130 crash right on the end of the runway.. he was one of the last airplanes in a large en-trail formation, and he attempted to climb out over the prop wash/wake turbulence, sadly he stalled the airplane, and they "spun in".

I didn't want to see his wife, so I never mowed his yard, I still feel bad about that even as I type this post. I have been a GA pilot all of my adult life, and flying has always been a passion of mine, in fact working evening's at Klem's Aero Repair was my 4th job, I gave a cart start to one of our customer's who flew an MU-2 for film, checks, and an overnight investment paper.. I even flew right seat with him, and loved flying that little screamer. One afternoon, I drove into the parking lot, and the Mitsubishi was gone, I laid under the Illinois State Police Cessna 414 and cried like a baby as I put it back together after a 100 hour inspection, it is personal for me, and I'm broken hearted every time it happens.

So as much as I love flying, I truly do, I never forget that flying is a dangerous business, and an even more dangerous hobby.

A little off subject but I was stationed at Adams Field 1987-1992 flying an ARMY U-8F, but I lived in Jacksonville, AR just outside LRAFB. I loved watching the C-130s do their assault approaches. Then Col. Jack Keane was one of my main passengers, as he commanded JRTC, Ft. Chaffee. He was billeted at LRAFB so I would hop over to LRAFB and take him to Ft. Smith. What a character. A true warrior who started off as a INF Lt. platoon leader in the jungles of Vietnam.

This is what happens when an inexperienced pilot is cleared inappropriately for solo flight. Check lists are written in the blood of the ones that go before us. This guy thought the check list was for fools. Notice the lack of survivable/living space in the cockpit. I just had to include a picture of my U-8F Excalibur.

 

[bullmack]

Is it possible to know who was flying the plane - left seat or right? Was this a monumental pilot screw up or was the totally mis-configured landing done with intention?

 

[Retired W4]

Is it possible to know who was flying the plane - left seat or right? Was this a monumental pilot screw up or was the totally mis-configured landing done with intention?

In one of the videos you can see the right seater put his hand up on the instrument panel to brace himself.

I don't think the pilots knew what they were doing, but that is just my somewhat educated guess/opinion.

 

[steelslaver]

One of the things you learn if your doing any serious racing and something goes wrong and you loose control of the vehicle "Keep Driving." All of your training and experience comes into play and you just may be able to avoid getting not only yourself but others injured. I've personally watched people take their hands off the wheel and throw their hands in the air, screaming.

The great Mario Andretti once said something like "once all 4 wheels off the ground it no longer matters how good of driver you are"

 

[MDF4]

In one of the videos you can see the right seater put his hand up on the instrument panel to brace himself.

I don't think the pilots knew what they were doing, but that is just my somewhat educated guess/opinion.

Arm on the panel bracing for impact until...impact and the arm snaps at the elbow driving the forearm into the upper torso...no bueno.

 

[Rob613]

I watch a lot of Pilot Debrief…I was surprised Hoover did a video already but he explains what you can see well.

https://youtu.be/-0EgD7urF9Q

 

[Retired W4]

Great informational video by an F-15 pilot/Safety Officer. Some answer and more questions. It does clear up several issues without overt speculation.

 

[Tinyman]

Does the 737 have (hope it doesn't get asterisked) a system called "bitchenbetty"? Y'all know, in a certain circumstance scream "LANDING GEAR -- LANDING GEAR" to let the flight crew that it's just past time to do something? I know the Embraer 145 has it.

 

[collectordude]

Some bad juju

 

[Retired W4]

Does the 737 have (hope it doesn't get asterisked) a system called "bitchenbetty"? Y'all know, in a certain circumstance scream "LANDING GEAR -- LANDING GEAR" to let the flight crew that it's just past time to do something? I know the Embraer 145 has it.

That would be TAWS Terrain Awareness Warning System. And Yes, in some form. They changed to a male voice because pilots were ignoring the old female voice. TERRAIN...PULL UP, PULL UP.

 

[SMSgt]

That would be TAWS Terrain Awareness Warning System. And Yes, in some form. They changed to a male voice because pilots were ignoring the old female voice. TERRAIN...PULL UP, PULL UP.

The female voice sounded like too many wives and thus was ignored.

 

[ameridaddy]

Seems that a major issue is why was there an obstruction off the runway? Described as a concrete wall or fence.

Rather than pay for taller masts to get the localizer array at the end of runway at a higher elevation, they built up a massive concrete and earth berm at the end of the runway and put them on top of that, which destroyed the aircraft on impact. Having no flaps deployed, he landed very fast, not touching down until using up half the runway, and having that berm in his path instead of a few thousand feet of long, flat end of runway escape, he was doomed.
But why no flaps or landing gear? Was that a botched go around?

 

[ameridaddy]

...Both guys didn't even hesitate when they said "No flying experience." Both said that most US Airline pilots are ex military and have thousands of hours "flying." Most non US Airline pilots learn to fly in a simulator and have very little experience dealing with emergencies. ....

Good observation about military vs non-military flying backgrounds. A few years ago, my boy retired after 20 years as a naval aviator, and is flying commercial now. Being a new hire, he's very junior among his fellow pilots. A couple months ago, he was flying right seat when they had a minor emergency. He and the captain, who never flew military and had fewer hours than my boy, ran the checklist, dealt with the problem and landed just fine. Once they shut down, the Captain remarked how scary that was.
My boy told him he had to be kidding; that was just another Tuesday morning in the Navy.