I've looked at all of the threads on these guns and haven't found an answer to my question - What characteristics are individual to the two different gunsmith's guns? Did the guns they built have exactly the same features or were there certain things that one did differently than the other? I'm wondering about being able to identify the origin of guns that are not obviously labeled as either a Jovino or Behlert.
Jovino and Behlert N-frame snubbies - Individual gunsmith characteristics?
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25-2
Here's one in 45 LC, that I do not think is either a Jovino or Behlert. It looks good in the pictures, but it could have used a little more refinement. The grip is round on the backstrap and still square on the frontstrap. Just sent in for a letter to see where it started out.
Here's one in 45 LC, that I do not think is either a Jovino or Behlert. It looks good in the pictures, but it could have used a little more refinement. The grip is round on the backstrap and still square on the frontstrap. Just sent in for a letter to see where it started out.
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Frank237
Absent Comrade
NO offense to the 2.5" .45 acp revo lovers...but MY story on a Behlert M-25-2.
I used to visit Behlerts Shop at least 4-5 times a year. He occasionally had some neat used models in the case. And... Behlert Senior was flat a neat guy to talk with.
I was at the Shop in maybe 1978 or so and a guy picked up his just completed 25-2. It had been chopped to 2 1/2", round butted , red ramp frt sight and then Armalloyed...the silver hardchrome that the shop pushed . Possibly mag-na-ported as well.
The guy was headed south to shoot it at the indoor range at Rays on Rt 22 N. Plainfield. I had handled the gun and he asked if I wanted to shoot it...as I passed Rays on my way home.
Long story short we both shot it, with 230 gr fmj GI ball and it DID group reasonably well. But with the loss of several ounces of metal it also kicked a bit sharper than the 6.5" SQ butt it had previously been.
The owner shot his second group, opened the cylinder...looked at me and said... "Well. There went a waste of a lot of money". A week later I saw the gun on the used shelf at Rays. Apparently it wasn't what he had hoped it would be?
At that time the conversion IIRC cost about 150% what a 25-2 generally cost.
To add to the thread... Andy Cannon a Smith who was in MT years back...also did chops on big N frame guns.
FN in MT
I used to visit Behlerts Shop at least 4-5 times a year. He occasionally had some neat used models in the case. And... Behlert Senior was flat a neat guy to talk with.
I was at the Shop in maybe 1978 or so and a guy picked up his just completed 25-2. It had been chopped to 2 1/2", round butted , red ramp frt sight and then Armalloyed...the silver hardchrome that the shop pushed . Possibly mag-na-ported as well.
The guy was headed south to shoot it at the indoor range at Rays on Rt 22 N. Plainfield. I had handled the gun and he asked if I wanted to shoot it...as I passed Rays on my way home.
Long story short we both shot it, with 230 gr fmj GI ball and it DID group reasonably well. But with the loss of several ounces of metal it also kicked a bit sharper than the 6.5" SQ butt it had previously been.
The owner shot his second group, opened the cylinder...looked at me and said... "Well. There went a waste of a lot of money". A week later I saw the gun on the used shelf at Rays. Apparently it wasn't what he had hoped it would be?
At that time the conversion IIRC cost about 150% what a 25-2 generally cost.
To add to the thread... Andy Cannon a Smith who was in MT years back...also did chops on big N frame guns.
FN in MT
rollin_hot
Member
This has been asked a few times and debated already but from what I remember...
There where ALOT of gunsmiths around the same time doing conversions. Some were high quality and some where not. Most that did conversions did pretty much the same thing i.e. cut and crown barrel, reinstall the front sights, action work and modify the SQ butt to round.
Not every converted N frame from that period is a Behlert or Jovino whether marked or not. There are alot of copies, some copies are even stamped with the gunsmiths name or model even though they were never touched by that smith. Also, not all Behlerts and Jovino's are marked which helps to confuse things for sure.
The rougher conversions had the barrels hacked off and either a rough crown or no crown at all. I have also seen conversions where the stampings on the barrel where never reworked and literally said "m and Wesson". I doubt either smith would have done that. I have also seen conversions where the front sight was super glued to the barrel after shortening and came off after solvent was used, so be careful.
In the end, what I looked for was whether or not it was a quality conversion and went from there, it did not matter to me who did it just that it was done and done well.
Below is a real deal Jovino EFFECTOR and a "who the hell knows who" high quality 25 conversion.
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captainjohnsofd
Member
I worked for Behlert Custom Guns during this period. The snub "N" frames had three characteristics- all had the rounded ejector housing, all got a ball-detent crane lock, and all got "K" round butt Pachmyer grips after the frame was rounded. I had a Model 25-2 for a while but like an idiot I sold it to a buddy (who won't sell it back to me).
rollin_hot
Member
Did most smiths around this time convert with these three characteristics as well? If so. I think it would be impossible to rell who did it if not stamped or no paper trail.
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matsu
Member
This thread made me get out my Jovino's M25-2 rounded ejector housing, no ball dent,rounded grip .smooth combat trigger probably worsted thing no 11 degree bevel on forcing cone this a 45 acp jacketed bullet only
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Thanks for the info guys. I was just wondering if Jovino and Behlert had any preferred features that were kind of their trademark, like a ball detent in the barrel lug vs the top of the crane, or a certain finish or grip, etc.
I've had my eye out for this style of gun for a while and just recently scored a Behlert 25-2 from another forum member. Of course, I'm always looking to learn a little more, trying for any little bit of knowledge that helps me spot the good stuff!
Rollin hot and Notredame -
Those are some beautiful revolvers.
Notredame, It looks like the ejector rod was shortened and then the barrel shortened from both the muzzle and forcing cone ends in order to retain the ejector rod lock on your gun. I would imagine that took some talented 'smithing to accomplish that. Very cool.
I've had my eye out for this style of gun for a while and just recently scored a Behlert 25-2 from another forum member. Of course, I'm always looking to learn a little more, trying for any little bit of knowledge that helps me spot the good stuff!
Rollin hot and Notredame -
Those are some beautiful revolvers.
Notredame, It looks like the ejector rod was shortened and then the barrel shortened from both the muzzle and forcing cone ends in order to retain the ejector rod lock on your gun. I would imagine that took some talented 'smithing to accomplish that. Very cool.
rscalzo
Member
I knew Austin from the times he spent at my club's range in Secaucus in the 60's and 70's. (Big -T). I shot smallbore competitions with his son Frank. Frank's sister was just a kid who was always at those matches.
In those days he worked out of his VW Camper. Unfortunately as a kid of 15, I never bought any of his masterpieces.
In those days he worked out of his VW Camper. Unfortunately as a kid of 15, I never bought any of his masterpieces.
Frank46
US Veteran
If my memory is still working Jovino also did work on rebuilding and restocking some British #1's MKIII's. Buddy had a gun shop back in New York that had some of these for sale. Believed they were stocked in Aussie coach wood. Frank
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