k-38 shoots to high,need advice

[JIMBO1950]

I have a k-38 circa 1951,which shoots to high and sight adjustment is all the way down. It has a non pinned front site,
and a stock s&w read sight. I do not want to file front sight.Is there a rear sight or blade available for more adjustment???

 

[growr]

Use lighter bullets.........

Randy

 

[JIMBO1950]

You funny..

 

[11e40]

lighter bullets will lower the point of impact. hth.

 

[JIMBO1950]

I reload 148 grain dewc, and cast my own bullets. I have tried other bullet weights and still shoots too high. I need a different solution,or advice.I am sure that with all the members on this forum,and there knowledge some on can help. Thanks for your input!

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
How high at what range does your Model 14 group?
Are you using a six o'clock sight picture ?
Have you had another shooter test fire your revolver, and if so does the other shooter shot group high also ?
What powder charge are you using for your reloads ?

 

[JIMBO1950]

It shoots 3 inches high at 25 ft. I use 3 grains Bullseye with a 148 dewc seated flush with case mouth.Others have sot it with similar results.I also use 6 oclock hold on target.Windage is perfect,right on target.My last resort is filing front sight,but would like it to remain original. thanks,Jim

 

[DustyJacket]

If you file the front sight, the group will go higher still.

Try increaseing the velocity, or try a tighter grip.

 

[Alk8944]

7 replys and no one even mentioned installing a lower rear sight slide! Unbelievable, but typical. It seems none of the "well informed afficionados" know different heights of rear slides are available for just this reason.

 

[mmande]

You did not say if it is a Combat Masterpiece (4") or a Target Masterpiece (6"). All front sights were pinned to the barrel in 1951. You will have to hold it in the light just right to be able to see the pin as they were ground flush before bluing.
The correct rear sight height for a 4" barrel is .106 and for a 6" barrel is .126. The rear sight may have been replaced if it does not match these heights.
Good luck;
Mike

 

[Engine49guy]

Jimbo have you compared some different factory ammo types to eliminate the possability its your handloads?
Do you have another .38 revolver to compare the point of impact with both loads as well ?

 

[judge]

Not sure which rear sight blade you have now, but you can go to a lower blade and the POI will be lowered as well. If you need additional help, contact me at [email protected]. Thanks - Judge NOTE: Do not file the front sight, it will RAISE the POI if you do.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

Use lighter bullets.........

Randy

You funny..

Its funny cause this is right, hotter loads will print lower than slower. The key is speed more so than weight but generally lighter bullets are faster. Try it sometime

 

[H Richard]

The original sights were set for a 158 gr bullet at normal velocity. Using a lighter bullet at a slower velocity will make it print higher. I'm thinkig you need a replacement rear sight.

 

[Krogen]

Nearly all of my S&W revolvers shoot high for me; even with the rear sight screwed down. Seems to have gotten worse as my eyes get older. I am pretty sure it's my inability to focus well on the front sight. Red insert sights are the biggest problem. I'm experimenting with some +1 diopter lenses to get a better sight picture. I think I need to go to +1.5 or 2.0 to get a good focus on the front sight.

 

[Fkimble]

Simple rear site change should do it. Last 28 I picked up shot so low that I was afraid the rear sight elevation screw was about out of threads. Replaced the rear blade with a higher one and now it's in the middle of its adjustment range. Go to Midway and look up their site blades, you can get several different heights, black or white outline. Get the kit. its cheaper than buying the screw and nut separately.

 

[358156hp]

My 686 shoots wadcutters high too. Hotter loads are exactly where I need them to be.

 

[shawn mccarver]

7 replys and no one even mentioned installing a lower rear sight slide! Unbelievable, but typical. It seems none of the "well informed afficionados" know different heights of rear slides are available for just this reason.

The other problem is the startling practice of attempting to "sight-in" at 25 FEET, instead of 25 yards. Due to the trajectory of some rounds, trying to sight in at too close of a distance presents certain unexpected results.

For example, the .223 will need to be zeroed a couple of inches LOW at 25 YARDS in order to be on or a little HIGH at 100 yards. Seems strange until you think about trajectory. I do not know the trajectory of the round used by the original poster, but it DOES enter in to the discussion and the potential solution.

I suggest the following before making ANY change to the revolver, and I urge the original poster NOT to attempt to file on the front sight: Sight in at 25 yards (not 25 feet), use a 6 o'clock point of aim and if the shooter cannot hold a 2.5 to 3 inch group at this distance, then have someone else do it. If that still results in an elevation problem, a new sight slide (blade) is the obvious answer.

 

[captaint]

I, too, would suggest you sight in at 25 yards for starters. Then, if possible, move out to 50 yards, wadcutters or not. I think one point that is often forgotten when moving sights - we only change where we look - the gun shoots where it shoots. We only change where we look. Lighter booits, higher velocity, lower point of impact. And as one person pointed out - longer barrel, more pronounced difference. And do concentrate on a tighter grip, if you're not doing that already. Hope this helps. Mike

 

[shovelwrench]

It sure seams simple to me. If the gun shoots that high, and for his friends also, and it being a K-38 that should come into adjustment for a wadcutter.

THEN HE NEEDS A NEW REAR BLADE. (Rear sight listing)

Even at @25ft the gun should shoot low with the sight down all the way. Rifle comparisons don't apply because their trajectory is so different. Also the only reason for them to shoot that low is usually the scopes height to the centerline of the bore.

 

[tomcatt51]

For example, the .223 will need to be zeroed a couple of inches LOW at 25 YARDS in order to be on or a little HIGH at 100 yards. Seems strange until you think about trajectory.

It's only strange until you realize that most AR's with optics have the sight line 2 1/2"+ above the bore center. That does put them 2"+ low at 25'.

But in this case the OP just needs a taller front or shorter rear sight blade. Not unusual.

 

[JIMBO1950]

Thanks for all the replies and info!!!! My K-38 has a .126 high rear sight,and has a 6 inch barrell.The only shorter rear sights i have found are .106 from Midway,but is backordered. They do have a complete sight assembly in .106 in stock. Will the .106
do what i need it to do (lower poi),and will the complete assemble fit my revolver (1951) as it states for new style r
evolvers only. Thanks again to all!!!!!

 

[shovelwrench]

The link in my post is to Brownells listing for rear sight blades and kits, they have the .106 blade in stock.....

HERE It doesnt say if this is a "kit" which would contain the nut required for the swap. but if not you can buy the "kit" for another rear sight and still have under 30$ in it....

 

[tomcatt51]

My K-38 has a .126 high rear sight,and has a 6 inch barrell.

Changing to a .106 rear sight blade will only lower your POI 3/4" at 25 ft. Something just sounds wrong here.

How tall is the front blade? Maybe it's been cut down?

 

[JIMBO1950]

Front blade looks stock,i believe i measured it at .300 height.I am going to go this weekend and experiment again with different loads etc,as has been suggested on the forum.But,i have this gun for target/bullseye shooting and want to use 148 wadcutters,it needs to be accurate with this low velocity load. I will not accept any thing else...

 

[tomcatt51]

want to use 148 wadcutters,it needs to be accurate with this low velocity load. I will not accept any thing else...

Understandable. To correct your "3" high at 25 feet" would require an .080" taller front sight. .100" if you want some adjustment, rear sight not bottomed. A rear sight blade change won't "fix" the "3" high".

Ignoring the high POI, does it shoot tight groups at 50'?

 

[Delos]

The experts are saying the right thing. Buy the right size rear sight slide.

But first look for any dirt under rear sight (I am guessing - I never saw any dirt below any rear sight, but it gets everywhere else). (does the screw protrude below the hole?)

If you shoot a friends .357 with magnum and then .38 special you will notice the magnum shoots several inches lower. The bullet gets out of the barrel before as much recoil, even though the 357 recoils more, it travels faster out the barrel.

Old 6 inch 45's and 44's have really big front sights. The barrel actually aims under what you are shooting. Slow motion photography shows the gun kicking up a lot during recoil before those heavy slow moving bullets leave the long barrels.

You can look through the bore of single shots or bolt action and compare it with what the sights are aimed at. It makes a person attentive to not canting the barrel left or right. I do not know about fat grips pushing against one side of hand more being an issue, but often wondered? Sights are adjustable for many reasons perhaps?

Other trivia.
Some really good target shooters that I have known years ago, used this small charges of bullseye powder in these old 38 special black powder shells. Pretty common. They would bend their arm upward between shots to put the small amount of fast burning powder back against the primer. It helps keep shots the same I hear. (I never could shoot good enough slow fire to notice).

 

[Engine49guy]

Thanks for all the replies and info!!!! My K-38 has a .126 high rear sight,and has a 6 inch barrell.The only shorter rear sights i have found are .106 from Midway,but is backordered. They do have a complete sight assembly in .106 in stock. Will the .106
do what i need it to do (lower poi),and will the complete assemble fit my revolver (1951) as it states for new style r
evolvers only. Thanks again to all!!!!!

The location of the fwd mounting screw was relocated on the dash 3 series (around 1967) so a rear sight assembly for anything dash 2 or older should fit,
The newer design is for the 14-3 and newer.

 

[JIMBO1950]

I went to the local indoor range and tried different ammo at 50 ft and 25 ft (50 ft is the longest distance at this range) Interesting and enlightening results as follows.
158 grain swc lead +p 1" high at 50,1/2" at 25
148 dewc lead 21/2" high at 50ft 11/2" high @25ft
125 jhp +p factory remington 1" high at 50ft. dead on at 25ft
125 jhp +p reloads dead on at both 50 and 25ft
These results were with the rear sight screw all the way down,and i did check the sights for looseness and any dirt and was ok.
So i owe an apology to the forum member that i said You funny!!
I was looking at k38 pictures and my front sight is different ,and is also different than on my models 48,and 29.Mine is just a blade pinned on the rib,and does not have the rctangular piece on the barrels as the others have. Any thoughts???

 

[tputto]

Maybe the previous owner of the revolver had a need for a different height front sight and made one. Do you know if your gun has had a barrel weight attached? That would require a lower front sight and with weight removed, POI would be higher. Such weights were often attached with a screw and there may be a dimple or recess where the tip of the screw tightened against the bottom of the barrel. Wear marks from installing and removing the weight may also be present.