"K" Frame Power?

[beng]

I have a S&W .357 mod. 66-4. I know it should not be fired all the time with "hot" rounds. (I do keep it in my house, loaded with 158 JHP, with 17 gr of 296) and hope I will never have to use it for that. The question I have is, "What is the limit on a hot round in fps and when I use it for targets / planking etc. what would be a good load with 158 swc and the fps it should have"? Thanks

 

[OKFC05]

I shoot my model 66 in IDPA with +P 158gr .38 loads--a lot of them.

As long as you use the heavier bullets (like your .357 load) I don't see why you would have any problems with shooting .357.

The greatest hazard is HOT .357 loads with very light bullets, which are going too fast and smack the forcing cone like hitting it with a hammer. For defense use, I prefer medium .357 loads anyway, not one of my hog loads for the 686.

 

[beng]

OK, so I can use 158, say, 1200 / 1300 or so, fps and I would be OK with a K frame? Not to use light bullets, say, 125 at a fast speed.

 

[dave b]

I use 7gr Unique with 125 or heavier lead bullets. This is kind of a medium load ,and I shoot it in about anything thats 357 mag, pistol or rifle.

 

[sonny]

I guess if you like 'em that hot, that's okay. Most of my target rounds are 1000 fps or less, although I'm talking .44's and .45's.
Sonny

 

[H Richard]

With a 158 gr. cast lead bullet for paper punching, steel plate shooting, general plinking use in 38 special cases, I use Winchester 231, in the 4.3 to 4.5 gr. range. It yields in the 900 fps range. Very accurate load.

 

[dmar]

With a 158 gr. cast lead bullet for paper punching, steel plate shooting, general plinking use in 38 special cases, I use Winchester 231, in the 4.3 to 4.5 gr. range. It yields in the 900 fps range. Very accurate load.

I'm using the same loads, and also get very good accuracy...

 

[Paul5388]

I think the original question deserves another question, has anyone personally experienced K frame damage (flame cut, sprung yoke, barrel crack/erosion) other than with H110/W296 loads? My M66-2 hasn't had any H110 shot through it that I know of and as a result, it doesn't have flame cuts or barrel erosion.

I do shoot 125 gr bullets out of it at ~1500 fps (it's a 4"), but I use a flake single base powder and it doesn't have any nitroglycerin content.

This is a excerpt from a post by Bob Baker from Freedom Arms....

We have seen numerous barrels damaged by using Lil Gun. According to customers, some had as few as 30 rounds using Lil Gun through them, some had several hundred. Before we figured out what was happening one customer had sent his gun in for a new barrel. Then 600 rounds later it came back for another new barrel.

A couple years ago we did a test with a M83, .357 Mag. using Hornady 180 gr. bullets. We loaded 50 rds. of three different loads. One was a heavy H-110 load and the other two both used Lil Gun in different quantities.

We fired the H-110 loads first, then cut off the threaded end of the barrel. Rethreaded the barrel and shot one of the Lil Gun loads then rethreaded the barrel and shot the last Lil Gun load.

We found even the light load of Lil Gun caused the gun to get extremely hot. The heavy Lil Gun load had the gun so hot the only place we could touch the gun was on the grips and they were very hot.

Under magnification the surface appeared to have heated to a point of flowing using the Lil Gun loads and the heavy load was worse than the light load. This is probably due to Lil Gun having about 10% more nitro glycerin in it than H-110.

 

[swmod29]

While this may be off-topic with regard to the OP,many respected gun-writers advise against the use of "hot handloads"(or any handloads) in a gun that may be used for self defense.The thinking being that a prosecutor could allege that you were dissatisfied with factory ammo and fabricated your own "extra powerful killer ammo."

 

[Paul5388]

I think that line of reasoning has been discussed many times and the reasonable conclusion is, it depends on where you live. If you live in downtown New York City, it may be a concern, but not so much in rural Rusk County, Texas.

 

[nicky4968]

In New York, if you don't use handloads, the jury says, "He paid retail?"

 

[cp1969]

What stretch of the imagination can conclude that a person could get in any trouble whatsoever for using a handload in his own gun to defend himself in his own house?

 

[Paul5388]

Imaginations have been stretched before and most of the arguments are easily found with a simple search. However, Washington DC recently lost before the SCOTUS over a similar scenario to what you ask about.

Now, I again ask, who has personally experienced K frame damage from non H110/W296 loads?

 

[Paul5388]

I took some new pictures tonight, for comparison purposes. Some, like the M625-6, would be hard to fathom anyone using H110/W296 in, so it's sorta like a control.

The M57 no dash might be a different story, but I know I've never used ball powder in it.

A 1955 Highway Patrolman that someone butchered with chrome and gold plating.

A new shot of the M66-2.

If you look at the straight line for the cylinder opening, flame cutting can be easily seen, but the M57 hasn't progressed that far, yet.

And last, here's my M28-2 that has only had 5 shots of H110 shot through it and it has an obvious flame cut now.

BTW, here's the M28-2 prior to using H110.

 

[hamourkiller]

2400 powder is the way to go in my humble opinion! No flame cutting and long revolver life. If you want the small increase in performance from ball powders, get a carbine.

 

[AzShooter]

My standard .38 load is 4 grains of Bullseye for about 825 fps. It's a perfect load for USPSA, ICORE and IDPA shooting. Very accurate, in most of my .38s it will produce sub 2 inch groups all day long.

In my K frames I've been using this load for 30 years with no problems.