Upon close inspection of photo #3 the inside of the female part of the snap is marked United Carr. the rest of the mark is just outside of the field of view. That might give you a clue to country of origin.
K38, V-prefix serial, United States Property marked
- Thread starter CapeFearElvis
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Upon close inspection of photo #3 the inside of the female part of the snap is marked United Carr. the rest of the mark is just outside of the field of view. That might give you a clue to country of origin.
Like I said, the holster is the cherry on top. Very nice package. Now you need the lanyard and some WW II 38-200 ammo, made by the Brits of course.
There was a small belt pouch for extra ammunition that went along with those canvas holsters. A nice accessory as well. Then the belt itself of course.
Different colors for the different branches of service.
(Don't forget some 'Blanco' to keep it in top looking form too!)
These canvas holsters and accessorys like everything else were crazy cheap just a few years ago. Like new orig holsters for the Enfield or S&W 38 were around $10.
The light blue color RAF holsters, ammo pouches, etc seemed to be in greater supply .
Now the originals are getting tough to find and repros of them are on the market.
Those long lines on the bbl of the V are nothing but the profile milling cutter lines from when the bbl contour of the bbl shape is machined.
I have several 'In the White' S&W production bbls that are at that stage of mfg where they still have some machining marks but have had their Bbl markings rolled onto them.
They would normally have gone to the polishers at that point and with their careful attension and specialty hard contour polishing wheels,l the remaining machine marks removed and the markings not disturbed. or washed out.
\
War time production likely meant just a quick pass over the markings leaving the image of some of the machining cut lines in tact. Outside of the roll markings, the polishers could take more material down, not having to be concerned with the markings.
A somewhat coarse polish was all that was needed to get the guns ready for final applied finish,,assembly and out the door.
Different colors for the different branches of service.
(Don't forget some 'Blanco' to keep it in top looking form too!)
These canvas holsters and accessorys like everything else were crazy cheap just a few years ago. Like new orig holsters for the Enfield or S&W 38 were around $10.
The light blue color RAF holsters, ammo pouches, etc seemed to be in greater supply .
Now the originals are getting tough to find and repros of them are on the market.
Those long lines on the bbl of the V are nothing but the profile milling cutter lines from when the bbl contour of the bbl shape is machined.
I have several 'In the White' S&W production bbls that are at that stage of mfg where they still have some machining marks but have had their Bbl markings rolled onto them.
They would normally have gone to the polishers at that point and with their careful attension and specialty hard contour polishing wheels,l the remaining machine marks removed and the markings not disturbed. or washed out.
\
War time production likely meant just a quick pass over the markings leaving the image of some of the machining cut lines in tact. Outside of the roll markings, the polishers could take more material down, not having to be concerned with the markings.
A somewhat coarse polish was all that was needed to get the guns ready for final applied finish,,assembly and out the door.
50 target
Member
Lots of information and useful comments. I haven't seen any response to one particular marking which the OP listed. That of a small p. I have only seen this on one other S&W and can't remember if it wS a martial or civilian model. Very well done and feel it was applied at factory.
Anyone have knowledge of the. P. Stamping.
Anyone have knowledge of the. P. Stamping.
DWalt
Member
Regarding blued finish, one source is from Carl Hellstrom's wartime production notes. It is fairly clear that the only Parkerized revolvers were 2187 DSC Guns shipped in mid-1942.
https://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-h...odel-wartime-changes.html?121046=#post1285775
This is the Black Magic bluing finish product that S&W used during the war: https://www.hubbardhall.com/product_bulletin/black-magic-infusion-2?dl=1
There was also an article in the S&W CA Journal maybe 7 years ago that discussed the Victory finishes which I have no access to. I guess the myth of Parkerized finish on Victories still lives on like a zombie. And Black Magic has no similarity to Parkerizing. Most gun manufacturers had switched to the "Black Magic" type hot oxide bath blued finish before WWII. Ned Schwing's book "Winchester Slide Action .22 Rifles" provides a very detailed discussion of Winchester's hot oxide bath bluing process used by them in the 1930s.
The "p" is a proof mark.
Somewhere, I have one of those British canvas holsters, no idea where it is now. I think I bought at an estate sale for a dollar or so. I think it was designed to be used with every revolver type ever used in British service, not just the WWII BSRs. I remember that several years ago, IMA was selling the blue canvas RAF holsters for around $10. They may have been replicas, I don't remember.
https://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-h...odel-wartime-changes.html?121046=#post1285775
This is the Black Magic bluing finish product that S&W used during the war: https://www.hubbardhall.com/product_bulletin/black-magic-infusion-2?dl=1
There was also an article in the S&W CA Journal maybe 7 years ago that discussed the Victory finishes which I have no access to. I guess the myth of Parkerized finish on Victories still lives on like a zombie. And Black Magic has no similarity to Parkerizing. Most gun manufacturers had switched to the "Black Magic" type hot oxide bath blued finish before WWII. Ned Schwing's book "Winchester Slide Action .22 Rifles" provides a very detailed discussion of Winchester's hot oxide bath bluing process used by them in the 1930s.
The "p" is a proof mark.
Somewhere, I have one of those British canvas holsters, no idea where it is now. I think I bought at an estate sale for a dollar or so. I think it was designed to be used with every revolver type ever used in British service, not just the WWII BSRs. I remember that several years ago, IMA was selling the blue canvas RAF holsters for around $10. They may have been replicas, I don't remember.
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OP
CapeFearElvis
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Thank you so much! I really didn't know what I had on my hands when it first dropped in my lap. I mean, it was clearly a S&W, but not like one I had seen (I'm a Model 67, 686, and 29/629 guy).
Yeah, that's just what I need, another caliber to spend money on!
Holy moly!There may be some old ammo stored away somewhere in my mother-in-law's home, but I won't be back there for a couple of weeks. I'll see what turns up - seems like she also had a small break-action revolver in .32, but I just can't remember.
Thank you again for your insight.
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DWalt
Member
Back shortly pre-Covid, there was quite a bit of South African .380 Mark II ammo being sold. Original British and Canadian .380 revolver ammo has been scarce for quite awhile, at least I have seen none in shooting quantities. Even new commercial .38 S&W ammo is tough to come by and expensive today.
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CapeFearElvis
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The bottom side of that piece is stamped CANADA
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DWalt
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I imagine that basically identical holsters were made and used throughout all of the British Commonwealth countries during the war and later
OP
CapeFearElvis
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I hear you, but I don't think this is going to be fired by me. It doesn't look to have been fired as near as my non-expert eyes can tell save maybe a couple of test-fires at S&W.
There is no powder residue on the top strap above the forcing cone, nor are there any marks or pitting on the area of the strap where it's normally seen when firing a revolver. The breechface, upon a MUCH closer inspection, shows an ever-so-slight mark of a round being fired, and yet there was no powder residue in any of the "normal" places when I cleaned the pistol. Everything behind the side-plate looks new, though the gun has clearly been disassembled in the past.
I think I'm going to just leave it like it is...
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CapeFearElvis
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A closer look in better light allowed me to see what appears to be "1940" on this holster. I can clearly see the "40" part - see photo
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CapeFearElvis
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More great info! Thank you!
Ah Ha. Like DWalt said...all part of the British Common Wealth.
One more opinion on ammo for your gun. It would be really great if your MiL has some British or Australian Mk II ammo, but I think Remington/UMC would be correct as well. The Brits et al packaged their stuff 12 rounds to a "box". If it were my gun and I had some of the Commonwealth stuff it would be for display only
Just checked Ray Giles in Dallas. He HAD a box of Mk I but he sold it, for $195.
No Mk II..
Just checked Ray Giles in Dallas. He HAD a box of Mk I but he sold it, for $195.
No Mk II..
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Some of the web holsters for the 38/200 used to have cartridge loops on the outside of the flap. Often used in the Western Desert by armoured troops as the little cartridge case could come adrift. Dave_n
Yep, there are dozens of high quality repo's on Ebay of that cartridge loop holster that you mentioned...$35 or so usually. I think they fit a Webley or a Victory.
VASCAR2
Member
Ammo is still available especially if your willing to purchase on line. SG Ammo has PPU and Remington 38 S&W in stock. Target Sports USA and Graf and Son are other potential sources online.
I’d want a box or two of ammo if I never planned on shooting the Dandy S&W.
Cheap bulk 38 SW Short Ammunition for sale | SGAmmo.com
38 S&W - Handgun - Ammo - Graf & Sons
I’d want a box or two of ammo if I never planned on shooting the Dandy S&W.
Cheap bulk 38 SW Short Ammunition for sale | SGAmmo.com
38 S&W - Handgun - Ammo - Graf & Sons
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Model19man
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Brownell's has the Magtech brand too: MAGTECH AMMUNITION SPORT SHOOTING 38 S&W AMMO
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CapeFearElvis
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Wow! That's like trying to buy 38-40 Winchester or M2 Ball ammo. That's crazy!
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