Keep Shield or upgrade to Sig P365?
- Thread starter akdude
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kitten_frenzy
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Seems many plan on the same! Just sad U have to spent another $90.+ on a part since the gun is not cheap!
I just preordered one for $99 shipped lol.
Expensive, but worth it to me. I guess it kind of evens out as I don't have to spend additional money upgrading the trigger and sights like I would for most pistols in its class.
Stell Striker For SIG P365 Pistols
Sig has identified the prob with the MIM Pins were made in India and are fixing the issue! How or when the "New" P365's with better Firing Pins will come out is the Question!
Sig also sais that only "14" firing pinsout of 40K guns sold did break, but if anybody believes that the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale!
Also need to know how to tell which guns have the "Fixed" firing pins!
Sig also sais that only "14" firing pins
out of 40K guns sold did break, but if anybody believes that the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale!Also need to know how to tell which guns have the "Fixed" firing pins!
How is the recoil on this gun? I can shoot 100 rounds of ammo through a Shield and it is still enjoyable. I had a smaller and lighter Kel tek 9m/m and it kicked like a mule. Just because something is smaller doesn't make it better if its no fun to shoot.
kitten_frenzy
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Not significantly different than the Shield to me.
I shot it side by side with my G43 and I prefer the P365 (not sure if the G43 feels like it recoils harsher due to trigger bite/pinch).
My first and only range session with it was 250 rounds. No discomfort at all.
If I had to rank them in terms of perceived recoil, it'd be P365 = Shield > G43. Perceived recoil is quite a subjective thing so try before you buy.
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My experience exactly....have over 2,500 rounds through the P365 and frankly, my perception is it shoots softer than a G19 and you can mag dump FAST.
Yep, It's almost the same size as my Kahr CM-9 with more ammo capacity. One thing for sure, I wouldn't want a pistol any smaller in size. I shoot the CM-9 well and I have medium size hands, but anything smaller, I think would be a challenge. I'm still in the wait and see mode. IMHO the internet does seem to blow things out of proportion. When there is any problem with any one pistol, it gets thousands of views, but the other thousands of owners who are happy with a pistol aren't considered. No doubt that there have been problems with some individual P 365 pistols, but it seems to me that Sig is addressing those issues as they arise. I'm old enough to remember a torture test by "Shooting Times" magazine of a . 45 ACP Colt Commander pistol, back in the early 70's. After Skeeter Skelton shot 5,000 rounds cracks developed in the aluminum frame, IIRC.
Jeppo
Member
Sig has identified the prob with the MIM Pins were made in India and are fixing the issue! How or when the "New" P365's with better Firing Pins will come out is the Question!
Sig also sais that only "14" firing pins
Also need to know how to tell which guns have the "Fixed" firing pins!
That quote about 14 out 40,000 firing pins having broke came from SIG's president. At the NRA convention, SIG's representative said 17,000 365s had been delivered, a "slight" discrepancy in the data.
A running poll on the SIG Talk Forum currently shows that 10 out of 68 365s owned by SIG Talk members have had a firing pin break, a failure rate of nearly 15%. Plus three other SIG Talk members have reported failures in other threads, but have not responded to the poll. Gee, 13 out of the 14 broken firing pins reported to SIG have belonged to SIG Talk members.
Those guys sure have bad luck. The lesson is that if you want to avoid having firing pin problems with your 365, don't become a member of SIG Talk! Anyway, here is a link to the SIG Talk poll:S/T membership P365 roll-call / Striker Failure - SIG Talk
I'd say akdude's skepticism about SIG's claim of "14 out of 40,000" is well warranted.
Finally, SIG is sourcing MIM parts out of India? Seriously?? So much for Swiss/German/American high quality precision firearm engineering! I love my three SIGs, but if they continue down this road, I'll have to change my Forum name to "sw".
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I do not have any interest in a 365. I have the Shield 9mm and 45acp firearms already and love them both. I also have the XD Mod 2 subcompacts in FDE in both 9mm and 45acp.
Including my 642 jframe, I think I am well fixed for EDC weapons for the next century.
Joe
Including my 642 jframe, I think I am well fixed for EDC weapons for the next century.
Joe
Jäger1
Member
I'm probably swimming in the wrong pool here, but when I don't want to/can't carry my Browning High Power (due to going out dressed nothing other than a G string or whatever), I have fallen in love with the Kimber Micro 9 Crimson Trace. That gun is like cheating, especially when you're 60's and fighting your eyesight getting old as well.
I heard all the warnings and dire predictions about Kimbers, but they have an operation here and let me shoot the snot out of the Micro 9 where we were both supporting some local veteran's aid fundraisers. Abandoned the Shield to my wife, who gobbled it up like a fat kid on a chocolate bar. Poured a lot of rounds through the Micro 9 since then, and have yet to find a reason to change my mind.
Have never lost a strong preference for a safety and an exposed hammer, and 35+ years in the biz of carrying guns for a living hasn't moved me any. Probably all kinds of good reasons for why my choices are not the best, but the targets on training outings and group sessions say I'm not suffering too badly from second best. I'm dubious of whether the Sig would carry or feel better in the hand than the Micro 9 (aside from mag capacity), as the Micro did compared to the Shield.
Perhaps, but I'm not motivated enough to try due to being comfortable with what I have, and I don't lose sleep over the capacity difference when I started out carrying a S&W Model 10 carrying six rounds back in the 1970's...
So I asked the Residential Sergeant Major about trying the Sig to compare to her Shield, and she said "meh". Handguns are only tools to her; unlike shotguns where her tastes run to over and unders sporting exotic Circassian walnut marblecake stocks. That's pragmatic... she knows her Shield, shoots it well, and (something that is often overlooked), trusts it.
A friend in Kalispell with a small firearms accessory business, mostly for Glocks, has produced an extended slide kit for the Shield that turns it into a pistol with a 4.25" barrel. Now THAT my wife wants to go give a try. They had it at the SHOT show, but the snow just left here in Montana so maybe I'll borrow his sample sometime in the next week and head out to the range.
A "long slide" option for a Shield, perhaps with the addition of a Magguts kit in the mag... curious to see if is simply another way that ends up being the same size as a flavour of M&P, or if it does in fact offer the choice of something that is significantly different. A bit spendy, considering what the entire Shield cost during the rebate period. But... haven't tried it yet...
Shield Arms - Smith & Wesson M&P Shield Long Slide by Shield Arms
I heard all the warnings and dire predictions about Kimbers, but they have an operation here and let me shoot the snot out of the Micro 9 where we were both supporting some local veteran's aid fundraisers. Abandoned the Shield to my wife, who gobbled it up like a fat kid on a chocolate bar. Poured a lot of rounds through the Micro 9 since then, and have yet to find a reason to change my mind.
Have never lost a strong preference for a safety and an exposed hammer, and 35+ years in the biz of carrying guns for a living hasn't moved me any. Probably all kinds of good reasons for why my choices are not the best, but the targets on training outings and group sessions say I'm not suffering too badly from second best. I'm dubious of whether the Sig would carry or feel better in the hand than the Micro 9 (aside from mag capacity), as the Micro did compared to the Shield.
Perhaps, but I'm not motivated enough to try due to being comfortable with what I have, and I don't lose sleep over the capacity difference when I started out carrying a S&W Model 10 carrying six rounds back in the 1970's...
So I asked the Residential Sergeant Major about trying the Sig to compare to her Shield, and she said "meh". Handguns are only tools to her; unlike shotguns where her tastes run to over and unders sporting exotic Circassian walnut marblecake stocks. That's pragmatic... she knows her Shield, shoots it well, and (something that is often overlooked), trusts it.
A friend in Kalispell with a small firearms accessory business, mostly for Glocks, has produced an extended slide kit for the Shield that turns it into a pistol with a 4.25" barrel. Now THAT my wife wants to go give a try. They had it at the SHOT show, but the snow just left here in Montana so maybe I'll borrow his sample sometime in the next week and head out to the range.
A "long slide" option for a Shield, perhaps with the addition of a Magguts kit in the mag... curious to see if is simply another way that ends up being the same size as a flavour of M&P, or if it does in fact offer the choice of something that is significantly different. A bit spendy, considering what the entire Shield cost during the rebate period. But... haven't tried it yet...
Shield Arms - Smith & Wesson M&P Shield Long Slide by Shield Arms
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I WAS A FFL AND SIG DEALER FOR 14 YEARS UNTIL JUST
recently. Was looking to simplify my life and sold a number of personal guns, including several Sigs. My personal 239 9 Sig was well sized for the top of dash compartment of my Toyota FJ: but was one of guns sold, so looking for replacement. My Glock 27 would have been a good replacement, except lid wouldn't close due to grip thickness. Obviously heard about 365: but never saw one "live". Temporarily, I carried my old 3914: but has terrible trigger and night sights would need to be replaced and no rail.
I got to see a 365 at LGS and had a great trigger; although take-up was a little long, felt good in my hand and not too disimilar than my older PM9 that had/has a great trigger, until they started using crappy CM trigger on PM and no longer worth the price! Grip felt better in my big hands due to double stack on 365. I previously had looked at a Shield Performance Center
and liked it a lot and had a good trigger, due to being Performance Center? Did not have a rail and did not come with night sights as I thought a Performance Center should? One thing it had that I really didn't ike was the "porting" for the usual reasons.. Wil say it felt better in my hand than did 365: but it was larger than 365 and didn't have mag capacity.
I NEGLECTED TO DO A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THING WITH 365, I DID NOT TRY TO MANIPULATE MAG RELEASE WITH THUMB OF SHOOTING HAND....YOU CAN'T! My thumbs are plenty long enough; but mag release is cut in an an angle toward back of trigger guard and can;t get enough "purchase" to release the mag! I could release it fine using index/trigger finger of weak hand. I've been shooting centerfire pistols for years, BHP, 1911, Sig, Glock,etc an never had an issue releasing mag with thumb of shooting hand. IMHO it is a bad design and Guns.com did a review pointing this out; but I read it the day after I purchased a 365. The slide relase is very stiff; but may will work better after some rounds through it?
Ammunition selection and loading of mags is yet another issue.
My favorite 9 carry round is Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr HP.
I could get more than 5-6 rounds in either of 10 rd mags or even optional 12 rd mag. Let partially loaded mags sit overnight; but still no more rounds could be loaded. Thought I'd try Speer Gold Dots 115 gr and all loaded to capacity?? There is nothing in 365 manual regarding bullet weight, only usual cautions about reloaded, dirty, etc? To get maximum velocity, energy from a short barreled gun, maybe a lighter 115 gr is necessary; but IMHO, a faster burning powder with low flash are the really important considerations? Sig is touting a new 115 gr round for 365; but say nothing about fast burning powder or low flash; but may be part of spec? For your Shields, my 365; or my Ruger LCR 9mm, does anyone know of premium HP, fast burning powder with low flash, specifically recommended for short barrel guns?
SOLUTION FOR POORLY DESIGNED, ANGLED MAG BUTTON MIGHT BE AN EXTENDED MAG RELEASE WITH THE EDGE CLOSEST TO BACK OF TRIGGER GUARD BUILT UP THE MOST AND EXTENDED SLIDE RELEASE, AS WELL?
Probably would not have purchased 365 if I knew of these issues before; but wouldn't have purchased PC Shield either due to lack of rail, no night sights, low mag capacity and worst of all for a carry gun, THE PORTING!
Just my 2C; but very interested in your input regarding ammo issues mentioned above?
recently. Was looking to simplify my life and sold a number of personal guns, including several Sigs. My personal 239 9 Sig was well sized for the top of dash compartment of my Toyota FJ: but was one of guns sold, so looking for replacement. My Glock 27 would have been a good replacement, except lid wouldn't close due to grip thickness. Obviously heard about 365: but never saw one "live". Temporarily, I carried my old 3914: but has terrible trigger and night sights would need to be replaced and no rail.
I got to see a 365 at LGS and had a great trigger; although take-up was a little long, felt good in my hand and not too disimilar than my older PM9 that had/has a great trigger, until they started using crappy CM trigger on PM and no longer worth the price! Grip felt better in my big hands due to double stack on 365. I previously had looked at a Shield Performance Center
and liked it a lot and had a good trigger, due to being Performance Center? Did not have a rail and did not come with night sights as I thought a Performance Center should? One thing it had that I really didn't ike was the "porting" for the usual reasons.. Wil say it felt better in my hand than did 365: but it was larger than 365 and didn't have mag capacity.
I NEGLECTED TO DO A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THING WITH 365, I DID NOT TRY TO MANIPULATE MAG RELEASE WITH THUMB OF SHOOTING HAND....YOU CAN'T! My thumbs are plenty long enough; but mag release is cut in an an angle toward back of trigger guard and can;t get enough "purchase" to release the mag! I could release it fine using index/trigger finger of weak hand. I've been shooting centerfire pistols for years, BHP, 1911, Sig, Glock,etc an never had an issue releasing mag with thumb of shooting hand. IMHO it is a bad design and Guns.com did a review pointing this out; but I read it the day after I purchased a 365. The slide relase is very stiff; but may will work better after some rounds through it?
Ammunition selection and loading of mags is yet another issue.
My favorite 9 carry round is Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr HP.
I could get more than 5-6 rounds in either of 10 rd mags or even optional 12 rd mag. Let partially loaded mags sit overnight; but still no more rounds could be loaded. Thought I'd try Speer Gold Dots 115 gr and all loaded to capacity?? There is nothing in 365 manual regarding bullet weight, only usual cautions about reloaded, dirty, etc? To get maximum velocity, energy from a short barreled gun, maybe a lighter 115 gr is necessary; but IMHO, a faster burning powder with low flash are the really important considerations? Sig is touting a new 115 gr round for 365; but say nothing about fast burning powder or low flash; but may be part of spec? For your Shields, my 365; or my Ruger LCR 9mm, does anyone know of premium HP, fast burning powder with low flash, specifically recommended for short barrel guns?
SOLUTION FOR POORLY DESIGNED, ANGLED MAG BUTTON MIGHT BE AN EXTENDED MAG RELEASE WITH THE EDGE CLOSEST TO BACK OF TRIGGER GUARD BUILT UP THE MOST AND EXTENDED SLIDE RELEASE, AS WELL?
Probably would not have purchased 365 if I knew of these issues before; but wouldn't have purchased PC Shield either due to lack of rail, no night sights, low mag capacity and worst of all for a carry gun, THE PORTING!
Just my 2C; but very interested in your input regarding ammo issues mentioned above?
PeterBergh
Member
I have had the P365 for a couple of weeks now and have around 200 rounds through it. I had a Shield 9mm but sold it; it was too hard for me to retract the Shield's slide, due to arthritis. The slide on the P365 is much easier to retract. The recoil on the P365 is a little harsher than that of the Shield, but not objectionably so.
Jäger1
Member
Ah... the ol' "what's the best oil for your motorcycle" question... second best way to start a fight! Ammo questions!
Wife uses the 115 Barnes Tac-XP in the Shield, she likes it, I can't really see a difference in the flash on the range at night. I guinea pig test on her by not telling her what I'm loading in the mags, so she doesn't get to match impressions to names. She likes shooting the Barnes better than shooting the Federal, and she shoots better with the Barnes than with the Federal, so after full desclosure she didn't see any difference and stuck with the Barnes.
I use the same thing in the Micro 9 as I use in my BHP, Federal standard pressure 147 gr HST. Keeps things simple, I can't feel a whole lot of difference while shooting versus the Barnes stuff, and has piled up a really good reputation for performance in police use. (as has the Barnes loads)
The terminal ballistics forensic pathologist guys give them both a thumbs up of approval, so that works for me. There's possibly a round markedly better out there somewhere, but if so these are choices where second best is pretty reliable as well.
Sooner or later there will be further improvements in service ammunition and it will be worth me reviewing what's out there, but at this point I'm good.
GaryV2
Member
Went from a wheel gun to 9M Shield and don't intend on replacing it. It's been one of the top performing pistols I've had for conceal carry. Don't need another safe dweller.
GaryV2
Member
Personal preference. IMO the 365 is another me too gun trying to catch up. For a ccw I never carry more than 7+1 in the Shield and I consider anything over 5 rds as excessive. And, the most important item is 100% certainty that my ccw will perform when called upon.
gwmac
Member
But the ammo question didn't get answered. Second choice is Speer Gold Dot "Short Barrel", IMO.
joeintexas
US Veteran
In answer to the OP's original question, no. Since one of my daughters decided she really needed my J-frame I just recently picked up a Shield. Guess I should shoot it for a while since it seems to be considered highly dependable.
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