LAPD 45 School

[18DAI]

I think there are some LAPD officers here now, or retired officers. Anyway, did anyone attend ".45 school" sometimes referred to as "decocker class" back in the nineties?

What was the curriculum? My understanding is that, currently, there are a number of LAPD officers who want the LAPD firearms section to offer another "decocker school" so they can transition from Glocks/Berettas to S&W 3rd generation pistols. Evidently this is an idea that is meeting resistance, and viewed by the Glock-o-philes as a "step backward". I disagree with that view.

So, is it correct that unless you attended the school and were certified back then, you cannot carry a S&W 45, even though several models are on the approved list? Regards 18DAI.

 

[Sonny Crocket]

Are you a member of 10-8Forums.com? There was some talk of this very subject over there not long ago.
10-8 Forums: LAPD and the 1911

 

[18DAI]

Hi Sonny Crockett,

No I'm not a member over on 10-8.

I did see the thread, which prompted my post here.

I'm neither a 1911 nor Glock fan. Both are fine pistols, just not for me. I didn't agree with all the posts in that thread either. I still own two 1911's and neither comes close to a 3rd generation S&W in terms of bet your life reliability. The Glock 21 has its share of problems too.

It appeared to me that two of the posters in that thread were LAPD firearms instructors. They also appeared to me to be what we euphemistically refer to locally as "Glock babies". Younger officers, with little to no firearms experience prior to entering the academy and being issued a Glock. Therefore Glock is superior to every handgun, or they would have been issued something else.

What did Grandma say about "if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail".

If someone wants to stake their life on a 3rd gen S&W pistol, and it's on the approved list....LET THEM!

I've staked my life on 3rd generation S&W's and I'm still here!

In any case, I was wondering how involved the "decocker school" might have been. Locally, if a pistols on the agency approved list, and you buy one out of your own pocket, and qualify with it, you can carry it. End of story.

In fact if you have a CCW permit, you can carry whatever you want off duty, on your own time. Personally, I prefer S&W 3rd generation handguns to other duty type semi autos. Regards 18DAI.

 

[mlk18]

If someone wants to stake their life on a 3rd gen S&W pistol, and it's on the approved list....LET THEM!

I agree completely. The S&W 3rd Gens are tried and true. This should be a well known fact in a city like LA, where they have already acknowledged this in the past and where their state police (CHP) still carry them. Many cops have bet (and do bet) their lives on the S&W and lived to tell about.

Younger officers, with little to no firearms experience prior to entering the academy and being issued a Glock. Therefore Glock is superior to every handgun, or they would have been issued something else.

Ahhh to be young and naive again. I wonder what they will think when they realize that LE weapon selection is 95% price tag? Of course that is just one "law enforcement life lesson" that they will be taught as they continue their careers.

 

[Scotter260]

You sure do come up with some thought and conversation-provoking threads.

I can't speak to your question but sometimes rural policing isn't so bad as you indicate - buy good quality pistol, buy good duty holster, qualify with it, carry it. We've got guys that come to qualifications and take hours to qualify because they bring so many pistols.

Real good then,
Scott

 

[CALREB]

45 schools

I dont remember any decocker schools, the .45 schools held in the mid 90s were to transition from 9mm to .45 cal and at that time the only approved models were the S+W and a little later the 8045 with a 4" barrel ,glocks were not an approved weapon at that time, so if you had went through the academy ,issued a 92fs, or had already attended a transition school from revolver to S/A. 9mm smith or beretta you could attend a 1 day transition school from 9mm to .45 . Currently no decocker schools have been put on ,but certainly anyone who has only only been trained with a glock would need to attend some training to get familiar with manipulating and be able to carry a pistol with a decocker. Bob

 

[Landric]

If I could choose any duty weapon, it would be a 4566TSW with the new rail design, Novak Trijicon sights, and a decocker (no manual safety). I have never run across a pistol any more reliable than a 3rd generation steel frame, and the 4566 meets my needs perfectly.

My department, however, is currently issuing the Beretta 96FS. We are about to transition to the *gag* Glock. It is all a matter of price. Even I can't say that Glock makes a bad pistol, its just not for me. In addition to my dislike of the Glock, I can't stand the .40 S&W. So, of course, we are getting .40 S&W Glocks. Again, its a matter of cost, we already have a ton of .40 S&W ammunition, and its somewhat cheaper than .45 ACP, so we save some when we buy more. I get that, but it still doesn't make me happy.

At least I got something out of the deal. I asked the chief (who is a gun guy, we hit the jackpot there) to get me a Glock 23 RTF instead of a 4th Generation G22. He agreed. The guns were ordered last week, and he ordered me the 23 RTF. I expect I am going to be the only officer working patrol with the G23 (I think they ordered the detectives 23s), but the 23 fits my hand a lot better than the 22.

 

[BUFF]

CALREB:

What is an 8045?

 

[18DAI]

mlk18 - It can't really be THAT many years since we were like that.........can it?

CALREB - Thanks for the insight! Much appreciated.

Scotter260 - ??? I don't know what you mean. My jurisdiction makes Mayberry look like Metropolis. I would never disparage rural policing or those who do it.

Landric - Hi Landric! Having seen what you are capable of with a 4566TSW I concur!! For those who might not know, or did not read my thread on Landrics performance in an IDPA match at the time, I saw Landric shoot a night IDPA stage, with a 4566TSW......and no light......none....pitch black......he SHOT IT CLEAN!!

He recalled the location of all the targets and hit every one!! It was darker than a well diggers .....well.... it was dark as hell, no moon, no lights. I was wandering around with my 4566 like Stevie Wonder. Most amazing shooting performance I've witnessed. And Landric is as nice a gentleman as he is a fine shot too!

It could be worse Landric, they could be issuing you M&P pistols . Guilford county got free M&P 45's from S&W in exchange for their Glock 22's. I saw a senior officer from that department today, and asked him how he liked his new M&P. He grimaced and told me that he'd parked his cruiser in the lot of the Southside stop-n-rob. He rolled all the windows down and threw his M&P up on the dashboard in plain sight. He stayed in the stop-n-rob for about an hour. When he came out there was two M&P pistols on his dash board! Hope to see you at a match real soon Landric!

Buff - An 8045 is a Beretta model. LAPD specified 4" barrels. The stock Beretta 8045 was a little short of 4". So Beretta made up some 4" barrels for LAPD, to meet the spec. The 8045 is a VERY nice pistol, IMO.

Thanks all! Regards 18DAI.

 

[Landric]

18DAI-I hope to make it to a match soon at which to see you. My time has been somewhat limited recently, babies tend to do that, and I got two for the price of one back in October. I've only made it to one match so far this year, and that was in January. I'm sure to be in Oxford on the 2nd of May for the classifier because I need to shoot one before the Carolina Cup, and the last Sunday in May (the 30th?) for the BUG match. Then, I'm shooting the Cup, but other than that, I probably won't be able to make much.

As for the M&P, we will have to agree to disagree there. I like the M&P a lot more than the Glock, and at least in the case of the two I own, just as reliable as the best I have seen from Glock, and more reliable than a number of Glocks I have seen and/or owned. I like the 45xx series more than the M&P.

Your deputy friend is lucky, I wish I could get my M&Ps to breed.

 

[OIF2]

I retired 2 years ago from the LAPD and carried a 4563 TSW for my last few years on the job (Narcotics Div). Before that, it was a 4566 TSW, which I sold because it was too heavy. If I recall, the transition to .45s was one day (may be wrong here), where you shot some warm-up drills and then 3 qual courses (last one for score, with duty ammo). The qual course was 30 rounds. I worked the LAPD Academy for 2 years back in the late 80s, helping run the (then) 3 day 9mm transition course. The 4563 with night sights and a rail was the perfect Narcotics weapon (except for undercover buys). Put on a light and you're ready for entries. Aluminum frame for easy carry, but in .45, which usually works well on most suspects. I shot several 400s on the bonus shoot with the 4563. No issues with reliabilty.
Bob

 

[CALREB]

OIF2, hey Bob,how you doing, in TEXAS,you lucky dog, I see your post on here from time to time, call if I can ever help with anything .or stay in touch.Bob B.

 

[MTS Cop]

Bratton is a major Glock fan boy. Has been since his days as chief of NYC Transit Police. I wonder if any of his left over policies or managerial attitudes are blocking the adoption or qualification of other pistols.

 

[Grinder]

Here is a custom PC worked 4566TSW I bought from a CA. LEO

FCS, NS, standard safety, and action work from the PC

Great house protector

 

[S. Kelly]

Bratton's Glock infatuation started with the MDC Police Dept in Mass, since swallowed up by the Mass State Police. It's the only point that we would agree on.

 

[rpg0123]

If anybody has a brand new M&P they want to send me for free, I'll take it. PM me.