Late model 659 identifing help PLEASE

[Mikedtkd]

I am looking for help with these 3 questions about my 659. It is a late model 2nd gen with many 3rd gen features. I as told it MIGHT be a manufactured date of OCT 1988. I do NOT have the original box. Serial number is TBV2xxx.
The grips in the picture are aftermarket 3rd gen Hogue grips not S&W.
My 3 questions are.

1- is this an INTERIM or PILOT model?
2- how many of these were made?
3- what is its ACTUAL manufactured date?

I am greatly appreciated for any answers to these 3 questions.
Thanks
Mike D

EDIT:: DATE OF MANUFACTURE IS OCT 1988 Thanks!

 

[jsbethel]

From the pictures, a more accurate description of your pistol is that it is an early 3rd gen pistol with two 2nd gen features - the location of the red safety dot on the slide instead of the frame and the 659 roll mark!

Your pistol would be a good candidate for a Jinks letter - https://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp...4_750001_750051_757825_-1_757814_757812_image

 

[Mikedtkd]

Thanks! I'm a bit confused though, how can it be an early 3rd gen if it's roll marked 659 2nd gen? Also I understand the link is for the history of the gun from S&W for $50, but what does "Jinks" mean?
Thanks.

 

[jsbethel]

Thanks! I'm a bit confused though, how can it be an early 3rd gen if it's roll marked 659 2nd gen? Also I understand the link is for the history of the gun from S&W for $50, but what does "Jinks" mean?
Thanks.

Your pistol has many more 3rd generation features than 2nd generation.

Roy Jinks is the S&W historian who will research the pistol and provide the answers to your questions.

 

[Sevens]

I am not an authority on transitionals, but yours is probably a transitional. If you did have the box it might very well have it written as a "6590" under model number. I want to say that most of these were sent to some big wholesale/distributors for sale (RSR in Florida comes to mind) but I'll bet someone who knows the transitional guns can clear this up better.

The letter does cost $50 and does take many weeks, sometimes months. We call it "Jinks" because Roy Jinks is the name of the S&W historian who digs through the dusty files to reply to your request.

What you get for $50 and a wait is a fancy letter on classy S&W letterhead that tells you basic facts about the gun, specific fasts to the model and then goes the extra mile to tell you WHERE it was shipped from the S&W facility and the date that it was shipped. He usually tells you the features that S&W was aware of that your specific firearm had when it left the factory. At the bottom of the letter, typically 2 pages... sometimes 1 page, sometimes more (?) he will sign the letter as Roy Jinks, S&W Historian.

The big question is WHY did S&W ship some of these oddball pistols marked one way but appearing another? And again, transitional fans and collectors can better explain but the easiest and most likely theory is that S&W is (very!) well known for wasting nothing and using everything, and if S&W could piece together solid guns with otherwise "obsolete" or older model parts... S&W was and is going to 100% use those parts. Only makes good business sense.

 

[Mikedtkd]

I am not an authority on transitionals, but yours is probably a transitional. If you did have the box it might very well have it written as a "6590" under model number. I want to say that most of these were sent to some big wholesale/distributors for sale (RSR in Florida comes to mind) but I'll bet someone who knows the transitional guns can clear this up better.

The letter does cost $50 and does take many weeks, sometimes months. We call it "Jinks" because Roy Jinks is the name of the S&W historian who digs through the dusty files to reply to your request.

What you get for $50 and a wait is a fancy letter on classy S&W letterhead that tells you basic facts about the gun, specific fasts to the model and then goes the extra mile to tell you WHERE it was shipped from the S&W facility and the date that it was shipped. He usually tells you the features that S&W was aware of that your specific firearm had when it left the factory. At the bottom of the letter, typically 2 pages... sometimes 1 page, sometimes more (?) he will sign the letter as Roy Jinks, S&W Historian.

The big question is WHY did S&W ship some of these oddball pistols marked one way but appearing another? And again, transitional fans and collectors can better explain but the easiest and most likely theory is that S&W is (very!) well known for wasting nothing and using everything, and if S&W could piece together solid guns with otherwise "obsolete" or older model parts... S&W was and is going to 100% use those parts. Only makes good business sense.

Thanks for the information! I'm thinking about maybe getting a Jinks letter depending on the replies I get here.
I read an earlier post about interim and pilot models that used both generation parts and I'm hoping somebody in the forums knows more about that. Also Im hoping somebody knows about the date of manufacture by serial number.
Thanks again
Mike D

 

[IraIII]

According to the "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" serial numbers TBL7955- TCB4082 show a date of 1988.

 

[Mikedtkd]

According to the "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" serial numbers TBL7955- TCB4082 show a date of 1988.

Thank you!

 

[Mikedtkd]

What I'm really hoping for is for someone to let me know wether my gun is an interim or pilot model. Im pretty sure its not a transitional, a true transitional 659 would be the 6590, 6591, 6592.

 

[brokendowncop]

Mine is TAT5190 Your's looks nothing like mine

 

[brokendowncop]

This is my 659 for comparison

 

[DCW]

A Little Late In Coming . . .

. . . Indeed, it's reasonable to assume Mr. Roy Jinks has responded to your letter of inquiry by this time - should you have mailed it at the time of your last input herein, Mikedtkd.

Nevertheless, this Forum member likewise has a 659/6590 pistol wrapped in vapor paper within a box whose end label (below) seems only to confuse the matter as often as it may enlighten.

Found in Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Edition, by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas, on Page 358, bottom of second column entitled "Model 659: 2nd generation 9mm" (above) our confused firearms of two names/model numbers are stated as being "transitional" with the term "pilot" nowhere to be found within the same confines.

(NOTE:The aforementioned book and its predecessors are worth every penny of their purchase cost. This Forum Member can't help but believe that other Members should be in possession of this book or its predecessors if a Member's object is to be a productive participant for the sake of other Members'.)

SCSW4 additionally discusses the 6590 (along with 10 other models) beginning on page 387, 2nd column, "The RSR transitionals: Models in the 4600s, 6400s, 6500s, and 6600s."

This member, who proudly boasts five (and a couple or three copies therein) of the 11 discussed models, will omit much of the interesting copy found within the cited SCSW4 section, but it does mention the Model 659/6590 as being "scarce" with respect to its production quantity.

"Scarce," insofar as SCSW4 discussion is concerned, is defined as "fewer than 900 copies" but cautions that there are gaps in the available information for the RSR transitionals and thus makes difficult the defining of these sidearms' importance with respect to their desirability to the collector community.

A personal observation by this collector: While "900" sounds like a bunch, that number starts to pale when realized are the numbers of pistols produced by Smith & Wesson, whether all pistols totaled wholly (e.g., all pistol models) or fractional (e.g., a single model) quantities.

I hope the above helps.

Later.

 

[jimbo728]

Judging by the presence of a barrel bushing I would guess that it still a 2nd Gen pistol. A letter would be neat but it it were mine I would save $ and buy ammo and shoot it happily.
Jim

 

[Sevens]

I'll disagree about the barrel bushing argument. 2nd Gen "mini guns" (469/669) and 2nd Gen 45's also had no removable bushings. The entire top half is 2nd Gen leftover parts mated to an early 3rd Gen lower.

 

[jimbo728]

The frame is stamped 659. It has a barrel bushing. Maybe more a pre transitional pistol.
Jim

Not intended to be an argument. Like I said, a guess and a letter would be cool.

 

[jimbo728]

i believe i was mistaken about the OP`s pistol having a barrel bushing. A closer look at the nose pic of that gun shows it does not have one. So indeed this may be a transitional 2nd to third gen pistol. More 3rd gen than 2nd.
Jim