Lee FCD... Can You....

[125JHP]

I have several Lee FCD for my rifle calibers but noticed I don't have any for pistol. Looking at what I have it appears the die body is the same and what is different per caliber, is the collet insert.

I am about to order FCD for 40 (so I can use the bulge buster I just got) and figured I should try one for my other pistol calibers as well.

Then I got the bright idea that I could just buy one complete die and then order the collets separately (for a lot less $$) then just change out the collet when I needed.

Has anyone tried this? does it work as I think it would or am I being blinded by the light bulb going off in my head and there something I'm missing?

 

[jepp2]

At the risk of sounding off base, you do realize there is a difference between a FCD and a CFCD, right?

For the bulge buster, you want the carbide Factory crimp die. It operates totally differently than the FCD. So no collet is involved. You are using the carbide ring to size the full length of the 40 S&W case.

 

[125JHP]

DUH... Thanks for that critical piece of info Jepp, I had gone out to lees website and looked at the parts for the pistol FCD (all pistol are carbide) and they look very similar to the rifle sets I have, in that they have a threaded body and an insert which I assumed to be a collet, like in the rifle counterpart. Not all of them show a picture of the parts, so it was not clear if it would work.

Are you indicating the caliber specific carbide insert is in the base of the threaded die body (like a normal die) or is it the insert I am thinking of swapping out? If the carbide is in the threaded body, then the whole unit would be needed for each caliber. If the insert can be swapped then a savings of about $20/caliber could be had.

Looking a little more at the info on their site, each caliber has a different part number for the body and most also do for the sleeve insert. However the insert is the same PN for 380, 9mm & 38 Super so it appears the body IS different for each of them.

 

[jepp2]

The carbide insert is in the body of the die, not the seating plug/crimper that can be removed. The carbide insert cannot be removed. It is part of the die body. Hopefully it will stay put. I did have a 40 S&W CFCD that the carbide ring shifted when I was using it as a bulge buster. Lee replaced it for me at no cost.

 

[125JHP]

OK so answer me this...
Why does a crimp die have a carbide sizer incorporated?

Usually the case is sized in the initial decapping operation.
Presumably by the time the crimp is applied, the case is already loaded and ready to go. Why would a carbide base sizer be necessary at this crimping stage?

The only reason I can think of is to require another accessory to be purchased to use the bulge buster, which isn't what it name implies because the bulge is removed by the carbide insert put in the crimp die for that purpose (and to generate more sales).

 

[TAROMAN]

The carbide FCD works fine for me in 45 Auto and 9x19 where loaded case OD is critical for proper function..
OTOH, for my revolvers, I load with lead bullets sized appropriately (or as close as possible) to cylinder mouth diameter.
The carbide sizes the case and swages my bullet smaller at the same time.
I eliminated these dies and replaced them with standard seaters set to crimp only. Prefer to seat and crimp in separate steps.

 

[Rule3]

The FCD for pistols has nothing to do with a bulge buster. The FCD for pistols is a totally different animal than the FCD (collet)for rifle.


The pistol version resizes the whole case and crimps and eliminates any feeding problems.I like to crimp as a separate step. It does not always do a resize on every round in a batch of bullets. Some people do not like them as they say it resizes lead bullets which are sometimes over sized to fit the barrel. I use them on every caliber and bullet and have never "slugged" a barrel. I see no need to as the lead bullets I buy are one size anyway. They work for me. I load a heck of a lot of calibers and a lot of differnt bullets and never have a feeding or jamming problem. There is much debate on the LFCD so that is whole other discussion or argument.

The rifle crimp die is a 3 collet or fingers which only crimps, it does not resize. Again folks do not like them for what ever reason.
I do like them as I like to crimp even rifle bullets (lightly) as a separate step.

Do you need them? Probably not. I find them useful

 

[125JHP]

The FCD for pistols has nothing to do with a bulge buster.

Are you sure? Maybe I misunderstand what you mean. The Lee instruction sheet indicates you have to attach the BB to the corresponding pistol caliber FCD, so you need a FCD to use the BB.

The FCD for pistols is a totally different animal that the FCD (collet) for rifle.

I am starting to see the only thing in common is the name.

The pistol version resizes the whole case and crimps and eliminates any feeding problems.I like to crimp as a separate step. It does not always do a resize on every round in a batch of bullets. Some people do not like them as they say it resizes lead bullets which are sometimes over sized to fit the barrel. I use them on every caliber and bullet and have never "slugged" a barrel. I see no need to as the lead bullets I buy are one size anyway. They work for me. I load a heck of a lot of calibers and a lot of differnt bullets and never have a feeding or jamming problem. There is much debate on the LFCD so that is whole other discussion or argument.

I agree and crimp in a separate step, if one is desired. I like my cases sized when I decap, not later in the process.

I see disadvantages in sizing after the case is loaded and don't usually do it unless the occasional round won't chamber and then I will run the whole thing up a normal sizing die (without the decapping stem), but that has only happened a few times in the last 4 decades.

First, some bullets will fall into an unsized case, so some neck tension from sizing is needed. The downside is that it may also need a separate mouth belling operation. Also, if a case needs trimmed, it should be done after sizing (I know this applies mostly to bottleneck rifle cases), which is a bit difficult after the bullet is seated. And like you mentioned, sizing can squeeze even jacketed bullets and affect accuracy, so I try to avoid it.

Of the 44 depriming dies (& sets) I have, only 2 are "universal" decapping that don't also size the case when it is deprimed (not counting the rifle neck-size only).

The rifle crimp die is a 3 collet or fingers which only crimps, it does not resize. Again folks do not like them for what ever reason.
I do like them as I like to crimp even rifle bullets (lightly) as a separate step.

Do you need them? Probably not. I find them useful

I have 5 or 6 rifle FCD and just by the name I thought the pistol version would be similar, a collet crimp of the mouth applied as a separate step at the end of the loading process. I see that is not the exactly how it is. I do like the rifle FCD for its intended purpose and can see where the same for pistol would be beneficial.

My original objective was to run my buckets of range pickups (40 first) en-mass thru the BB prior to loading them in batches. I figure in that pile of range pickups there have to be several that could give me problems at the least opportune time.

I didn't know the BB kit is nothing more than a tube extension to allow the cases to pass up thru the sizing die body and to attach a collection container. I feel as though Lee mislead me but ultimately I realize it was my fault for trusting their marketing and not looking into it more before buying.

I suppose I will now have to purchase the Lee FCD at least for .40 S&W, but I'm starting to wonder if this BB kit is needed at all and if I can just return it and get along with only the FCD?

 

[PattonTime]

Lee FCD

I think the original poster is missing the point of the Lee Bulge Buster.
The reason for its creation is to remove the small ring that can be left at the very bottom of a 40 S&w case.
This ring or bulge is caused by unsupported or not supported enough cases.
The reason it will fix this issue and standard FCD on its own will not is that it will not go far enough down on the case, I think this was an ingenious
solution, I bought one of the early renditions of the Redding solution and ruined it as I did not realize it was carbon steel, not carbide.
My fault for not reading directions.
The Lee product works very well, is inexpensive, especially for those of us that all ready owned the FCD..

 

[125JHP]

Sorry Patton, but I think it is you who missed my point.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post.

I am aware of the case bulge issue, how it occurs and the common solution for it. I am also aware that a FCD is recognized as a reliable solution when roll crimping isn't desired. My goal was to process a large quantity of .40 range pickup to insure I didn't have any 'Glocked' brass.

Lee advertises their Bulge Buster kit as such...

"Assure your handgun brass is bulge free with the Bulge Buster Kit and Factory Crimp Die. This push through die adapter will quickly remove the annoying bulge rings that shell holder constrained dies simply can't reach. Kit includes extension sleeve, push through punch, and catch container. It's fast--you can reprocess your cases as quickly as you can handle them."

From the underlined portion, I thought the BB kit was the part needed to iron out the cases, however I did notice that a FCD was also needed as a host die to screw the parts into. After looking at one of my rifle FC Dies, and seeing how the collet pulls out, and noticing that the pistol versions also have a removable insert, I figured this was just another one of Lee's cheap ways of doing things, instead of providing a threaded body with the BB kit. That is when I had the bright idea of buying one body and several inserts to cover all my calibers and save some bux.

Since I don't use many Lee dies, what I didn't know is that Lee incorporates a carbide sizer ring in the die body and that is what actually does the bulge busting.

I would never have guessed that a crimp die would also have a sizer function incorporated. Before Jepp2 pointed this out to me, I was under the impression that the insert might be what the case was pushed thru and that the die body was just a threaded host similar to the rifle version.

All the Bulge Buster kit seems to do, is provide the bottom punch to push the cases into the FCD and a guide tube to feed the cases out the top of the die into a plastic container. Big deal . There are home brew solutions for pushing a case up thru a die.

Their product description seems a little misleading to me (yes, they mention the need for the FCD but they allude that the BB kit does the work on the case... close enough to selling snake oil for me).

So now that I see how it works... if I knew this beforehand I may have opted for a different solution, as I don't like Lee products in general, but the BB was cheap enough I figured I would give it a try... only now to find out I will have to buy more $tuff to do what I wanted in the first place. I guess I am PO because I thought it was something it isn't and my expectations will not be fullfilled without spending more money.

I'll get over it.

Directions ??? who reads directions.... when all else fails I just look at the pictures.

 

[Rule3]

Well to simplify the whole thing.

I do not know anything about the bulge buster, I do not use one. I see no need for it or similar products by other makers.

Once I resize a case even if it has a start of a bulge and it fires in my supported barrels it is formed back and no longer a issue. Now if you shhot a 40 SW Glock or BHP with a factory barrel then maybe you need some type of die.

I have never seen a 40 SW bulged so bad that I would even attempt to use them. I have seen the pictures and I had a thread on it a long time ago. I have shot lots of 40 SW that came out of a Glock (not mine) I had one but did not like it at all. I like my SA XD much better, But anyway, the Lee regular depriming and sizing die works fine. The FCD will only touch or size again some odd ball in the bunch, 95% of my loads it just crimps. I use a 4 hole turret so I have to pull the handle anyway.

The Pistol FCD roll crimps for revolvers and taper crimps for semi auto.

 

[125JHP]

Thanks Rule,
I sold my block back in '00 and now have XD's and a M&P. I too have seldom come across a really bulged case (looks like a guppie belly) but I have had sized cases (9,40 & 45) that didn't go all the way into my case gauge and were a hair too big at the head. I was about to grind down a spare regular die to get it closer to the shell holder but figured this would be a better solution and cheap too.

I can't believe how things have increased - I just ordered a set of Hornady 300 blackout dies, first dies I have bought is quite a while - what a shocker, the Forster and Redding prices blinded me.

 

[Rule3]

With the amount of 40 SW brass around, if in doubt throw it out

I took some 40 brass that had a bit of a Glock bulge (not like a wart growing out of it) and the regular Lee die sized it just fine.

When I set my sizing dies I put it down to the shell holder with the ram up and then give it another 1/4 turn or so to take out any play. It gets down on the case almost all the way.

As I mention, I see no reason for the extra die. If brass was that bad to need it, I will not use it.