Legal Ramifications of Trigger Pull Reduction

modraker

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My SD40VE has a trigger pull of about 8 lbs. It's more than I'd like it to be and I am thinking of bringing it down closer to 6 lbs by installing a spring kit by Apex Tactical.

What sort of legal issues can I get into if I ever use the gun to defend myself?
 
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I'm not an attorney and I don't have any direct experience in this issue, but I've read that substituting lighter springs could be considered criminal negligence for creating a gun with a "hair trigger". Whenever I've wanted to improve the action of an S&W revolver, I've sent it back to the factory to avoid possible legal action. "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me."
 
This is my opinion maybe some others share the same opinion.

There are other gun manufactures that make their DA handguns with about a 5-5.5# trigger pull.

I would get a lawyer to argue the fact that the trigger modification was done by using engineered parts from a reputable company. Also that the trigger "enhancement" helps to improve your ability place shoots where they are intended. And a 5-6# trigger pull is safe for duty carry that is what most LEO's carry now a days.


In the event you must use it (God forbid). Be sure you are justified.
 
Only a lawyer who lives where you live can answer that question. I can say, however, that one legal issue you might get into (well, your survivors, actually) is a fight over your guns when your stuff is probated when your pistol does not fire because the trigger pull has been lightened to the point of unreliability.

Don't try to make the SD Series something it is not. If you don't like the longer, heavier pull of a revolver, which is what the SD Series is trying to mimic, then get an M&P, which is closer to a Glock trigger, and if that is not light enough for you, then get a single action auto, such as the 1911.
 
Never have I heard of a shooting case that ever considered the make and action of the weapon used, let alone any perceived modification. People simply watch too much TV when considering this topic.

Fit the weapon to your needs and train with it. Worry more about your ability and skill level and worry less about what others might think.
 
I am a lawyer

If your defense is going to be something like 'the gun just went off' it won't work whether you messed with get trigger or not.
If your defense is 'the gun malfunctioned because I messed with the trigger' the manufacturer will love you and you're still in a jam.

Trying to convince a jury that what you did is OK because 1911's have a 3.5 pound pull so your model xxx should be OK with one sounds like a losing argument.

Showing that you put thousands of rounds through your modified
gun in mastering it helps as long as you aren't also claiming that the gun went off by itself.

In short, take responsibility for you shooting.
 
IMO concerns over something like this are WAY WAY overblown. If you are involved in a justified shooting you won't come to any additional harm if a custom gun was used. Justified is Justified, period. If you are involved in a shooting that is questionable, you will face some rather harsh realities and it won't matter what you used. Do something in the heat of anger or just plain foolish and you'll suffer consequences for it.

Finally, the chances of a Firearms Examiner actually checking the trigger pull or that the trigger on a firearm has been modified is pretty close to zero. Really, you are giving firearms examiners credit for more knowledge and initiative than they deserve. The focus of a Firearms Examiner is on matters that have been Recognized by the Courts, such as weapon type and model, firing pin impressions, breech face impressions, and rifling characteristics. That a lone is a rather large array of characteristics to keep up to date on and I don't think you'll find any firearms examiner who actually studies all the various customization kits on the market. So, they aren't going to have any idea that you modified your pistol and will most likely conclude it's just a factory sample with a trigger a bit on the light end of the range of variation.
 
If you intended to fire the gun then the trigger pull makes no difference... if you did not intend to fire the gun and it "just went off", then consider liability issues regardless of weight of trigger. As noted, you shoot a scumbag and scumbag's relatives will feel "entitled" to some sort of compensation... should their "bread winner" no longer be able to function in their choosen occupation.
 
My opinion isn't law based, but rather based on common sense.

Think of your firearm as a vehicle. You wouldn't highly modify a car for driving on a racetrack, then expect it to operate safely and flawlessly on the highways, would you? No.

Why highly modify a firearm for competition shoots, then expect it to operate safely and flawlessly for daily carry?

Your firearm was designed to operate safely and flawlessly from the factory for daily use as a Self Defense weapon. If you alter the trigger to help with competition shoots, then you should no longer use it as a daily carry.

Yes, I've altered my weapon...I replaced the recoil spring pack with one that is made with a stainless rod instead of the plastic rod. It didn't change the mechanics of the weapon, nor the safety system of the weapon. It was done purely on an aesthetics level. Feel free to alter it for looks, but leave the trigger system alone...it could possibly make it unsafe.
 
I've seen articles where informed, over zealous prosecutors tried to show a defendant was negligent for lightening their trigger pull. You know how it is - even if it's a good shoot you can still get you arrested and tried. It all depends on where it happens. There are just too many anti-gun activists out there calling for the head of anyone who uses a gun even in self-defense.

My opinion is, buy a gun with a trigger pull you like for SD, and only use modified guns at the range.

Someone likened it to modifying a car to increase performance. Same principle. Buy a car that comes from the factory with the performance you want, and nobody can say you were negligent and unable to control your car because you modified it beyond design parameters. Example - you increased power by 50% but didn't install the larger brakes and suspension to compliment the performance.

And I would not assume your opposition is too dumb to know to test your gun. Just because a prosecutor doesn't know that doesn't mean he can't hire experts who do.

Here's an actual car-related trial as an example. I was on a jury for a car-accident civil case where the defendant ran into the back of the plaintiff. As you probably know, the lawyers have your name, address and occupation. I was a young machinist at the time. The defendant's lawyer evidently assumed I knew about cars, which I did, because he came over and looked right at me when he asked the plaintiff certain questions about how he was operating his car. Scenario: It was raining, it was a cobblestone road, and both cars were coming up to a light. The plaintiff stopped AFTER the white crosswalk line on the road. The defendant ran into him. It was defendant's claim he did not see any brake lights. Now, it's true the defendant was at fault but in my state at the time there was the principle of "contributory negligence" where a jury needs to assign blame as indicated. If it's at least 50% then the defendant's insurance company did not have to pay pain and suffering and loss of income damages. There was no "no-fault" insurance then. Even so, you can still sue to collect for pain and suffering and unpaid medical bills. Plaintiff drove a 3-on-the-tree. If you're under 30 you probably don't know what that is :) The questions were, What gear were you in coming up to the light, and what gear were you in when you stopped? The answer was 1st. That indicated he downshifted to slow down because proper driving practices are to be in high gear and hit the clutch at idle speed. So it's entirely possible he downshifted instead of using his brakes - no brakes no brake lights. By not indicating he was preparing to stop he violated driving laws. He also violated the law that you have to stop before the crosswalk. Also, he refused to release his income tax forms to prove how much income he lost. With that evidence I concluded he contributed 50% to the accident. Also, I had personal experience with the defendant's car - my uncle had an identical one which I occasionally drove. They had very touchy GM brakes. Now, the defendant should have been driving more carefully - that's a given. But the law was the law. I was the only one who thought this way. After I explained it a few others on the jury agreed with me. Eventually they all agreed, but I'm sure it was only because we stayed pretty late for two days. So even one lawyer or person on a jury can make a difference, for or against you. IMO, it's not worth taking the chance.
 
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As for modifying firearms - be aware that this could negate your warranty. When S&W was asked about sending in a modified defective firearm for warranty service the gun owner was told that the APEX trigger kit he had on his M&P would be removed & replaced with a factory trigger at his expense. They also reserved the right to cancel the warranty. He was also told they wouldn't send the APEX parts back to him. I imagine if he begged & pleaded for them they'd send them back at his expense.

This same person was told that for about $150 S&W would modify the trigger making it about the same pull & smoothness as an APEX kit would. This would take an additional 4 - 8 weeks.

If there are any mods or add-ons to your handgun it would be wise to take them off & replace them with the original factory parts before sending it in for warranty service.
 
As for modifying firearms - be aware that this could negate your warranty. When S&W was asked about sending in a modified defective firearm for warranty service the gun owner was told that the APEX trigger kit he had on his M&P would be removed & replaced with a factory trigger at his expense. They also reserved the right to cancel the warranty. He was also told they wouldn't send the APEX parts back to him. I imagine if he begged & pleaded for them they'd send them back at his expense.

This same person was told that for about $150 S&W would modify the trigger making it about the same pull & smoothness as an APEX kit would. This would take an additional 4 - 8 weeks.

If there are any mods or add-ons to your handgun it would be wise to take them off & replace them with the original factory parts before sending it in for warranty service.

Absolutely! Again referring to cars as an example there's no way I would expect the manufacturer to pay to replace my destroyed transmission if I take the car in equipped with a bigger turbo, aftermarket ECU programming, coffee-can exhaust and intake.
 
As for modifying firearms - be aware that this could negate your warranty. .

Save the OEM parts. It's not that hard to replace them.

It is not illegal to make reasonable modifications to a gun. If the shoot is good, why would you expect a legal modification to be a hinderance. You can expect legal action after any shooting, but a competent attorney should be able to counter any attack on trigger pull weight by pointing out that accuracy was improved and you were able to avoid wasting ammunition.

If you believe your life is in danger and you state that you shot the BG deliberately, the trigger modification is moot. The modification would be meaningful only if there is a ND caused by a light trigger. Using a special self defense load would probably cause more problems, especially if it was a hollow point, because they kill things deader.

Are there actual cases where legal modifications to a gun came up in a court of law and effected the outcome of a good shoot? I tried to google something and all I found was a lot of opinions based on weird logic. The one opinion that made some sense was to shoot the BG 3 or 4 times so it was obvious that it was not accidental.
 
Why highly modify a firearm for competition shoots, then expect it to operate safely and flawlessly for daily carry?

Your firearm was designed to operate safely and flawlessly from the factory for daily use as a Self Defense weapon. If you alter the trigger to help with competition shoots, then you should no longer use it as a daily carry.

Very well put.
 
My SD40VE has a trigger pull of about 8 lbs. It's more than I'd like it to be and I am thinking of bringing it down closer to 6 lbs by installing a spring kit by Apex Tactical.

What sort of legal issues can I get into if I ever use the gun to defend myself?

I'm no lawyer, but the question would be did you have cause to defend yourself. In NC, more specifically, in my county, if you, your family, or property is threatened, then you have a right to defend yourself. Whether the gun had an apex kit or not is inconsequential.

Now if you accidentally shot someone at the range because you reduced the trigger too low, that would be a different story. I don't think that 5 to 6 pounds pull would cause anything like that. What would concern me more is that if I replace the striker spring, that over time it fails and my weapon doesn't work in a life threatening situation. That is why that no matter which kit I get, I will not be replacing the striker spring.
 
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I think the legal ramifications/concerns are vastly overblown...very few of us will be involved in a self-defense situation, so statistically it won't ever be an issue for most of us in court. In fact, I think the potential is so remote that it really doesn't warrant a discussion. Now, if you make modifications that are prohibited by law (such as sawing off the barrel on a shotgun to shorter than the legal limit, or making a rifle fully automatic) that is a completely different matter, but that isn't what we are discussing here.

While I did replace the polymer guide rod with the stainless guide rod assembly, I don't consider that changing the mechanics of the gun, or the fire control system (plus, I used the OEM spring weight.) I also changed the rear sight, added an extended take down lever, and put on a Pachmayr grip sleeve. That's all I intend to do. I have owned many guns, some with silky smooth and light triggers (like a 1911) and some with much, much worse triggers than the SD9VE (a Taurus .44 Special I once owned.) I bought the SD9VE for what it is, not for what I want it to become.

What you intend to do with your gun is up to you...but it never surprises me when people make changes to the trigger/fire control group and then have problems with function.
 
Interesting question.
I took my renewal class today. The instructor commented that any modifications would invite a civil lawsuit and could make a defense more difficult. He also stated to never keep targets or other examples of shooting proficiency as a defense lawyer will surely question "why if you are so practiced and capable with a firearm did you not shoot to wound, rather than to kill.
I figure if it ever comes up, I'll have someone trash all my used targets.
He also said that he does not report the actual number score of the target used for licensing, but simply uses the "Pass" or "Fail" for this very reason.
I'm NOT a lawyer, but why invite a problem.
 
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