Legality of LEO Commandeering Private Property

[Steve912]

You lost me at "permanently".

You're saying I can in fact steal your car as long as I "intend" to return it to you.

Actually, he was explaining the difference between "theft", and
another act. "Theft" commonly includes element of 'intent to permanently deprive' the owner of the property, while "misappropriation" (in the UCMJ, for example) has instead, the
'intent to temporarily deprive' the owner of his/her property...
say Jake "borrows" his work truck over the weekend, to help
his brother-in-law move his household goods.

Intent is an element of many crimes. The presence of absence of intent can spell the difference between a crime or "something else".

Ever stand in a crowd, and had the guy in front of you back up, and bump you? Ever had a guy walk toward you, look you in the eye, and keep coming, till he walked right into you?

The backing-up guy probably had no intent to bump you, but the second guy did.

Which incident would constitute simple battery (a crime)?

 

[ColbyBruce]

Your characterization makes it sound as though the man was shot for simply reaching for his wallet, you know the cop involved thought he was reaching for a gun. Fatal error in judgement, not to be taken lightly, but vastly different than your blasé statement that he shot FOR reaching for the wallet.

Why are you willing to believe this nonsense?

This is on video. The victim turned to do as instructed by the trooper and was shot by the trooper. Facts are facts. The trooper was sentenced to five years in prison for his error in judgement.

 

[TomkinsSP]

OK, a SC State Trooper shot a man in a gas station for reaching for his wallet.

There was a LEO who shot a social worker sitting on the ground with his hands and feet raised in the air.

In DeKalb county Georgia a officer shot an unarmed naked man.

Mistakes or intentional acts, the body count is rising.

Different story. Examples given are physical acts. Without commenting in or defending any example given, just as a General rule...

LEOs watch your hands, it is where an actual threat could come from. I have been cursed and spit upon. Real threats do not eminate from mouths. I know of no person shot by a LEO because of what that person SAID.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Your characterization makes it sound as though the man was shot for simply reaching for his wallet, you know the cop involved thought he was reaching for a gun. Fatal error in judgement, not to be taken lightly, but vastly different than your blasé statement that he shot FOR reaching for the wallet.

Why are you willing to believe this nonsense?

Very serious error in judgement (likely compounded by temperament, attitude, and lack of training). IIRC the Trooper was fired, convicted of a felony and sent inside to do at least 60 months of a dozen year sentence.

Very serious, but not fatal. The Trooper was thoughly incompetent, missing several times and only delivering peripheral hits from close range.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Actually, he was explaining the difference between "theft", and
another act. "Theft" commonly includes element of 'intent to permanently deprive' the owner of the property, while "misappropriation" (in the UCMJ, for example) has instead, the
'intent to temporarily deprive' the owner of his/her property...
say Jake "borrows" his work truck over the weekend, to help
his brother-in-law move his household goods.

Intent is an element of many crimes. The presence of absence of intent can spell the difference between a crime or "something else".

Ever stand in a crowd, and had the guy in front of you back up, and bump you? Ever had a guy walk toward you, look you in the eye, and keep coming, till he walked right into you?

The backing-up guy probably had no intent to bump you, but the second guy did.

Which incident would constitute simple battery (a crime)?

In some jurisdiction the crime of taking a person's property with the intent of temporarily use to the detriment of the owner. (E.G. not returning a rental car on time, or using it to transport narcotics in violation if the rental agreement) is called conversion.

 

[ColbyBruce]

TompkinsSP, I was asked to provide examples, which I did. See below.

I disagree. Give an example of someone shot or killed by law enforcement for less than a curse word . . .

The social worker in the photo does not appear to be aggressive and the words coming out of his mouth were in defense of his autistic friend. Granted, that may be difficult to discern over gun fire.

Former DeKalb officer Robert Olsen was fired, denied immunity, and his trial is pending, as far as I can tell.

 

[nicky4968]

There is a theory in law that predates our Constitution by several centuries.
In plainest English it is: Danger invites rescue.
If the public library is on fire, the police, firemen, or citizenry can break into the neighborhood hardware store for shovels, axes, and the like.
Any damages are paid later (this is where the Fifth comes into play).
Anybody who refuses the use of their property when lives may be at risk is an idiot.

 

[Muss Muggins]

And when the trial is over, we will have the answer. Until then , anything proffered is mere speculation . . .

TompkinsSP, I was asked to provide examples, which I did. See below.



The social worker in the photo does not appear to be aggressive and the words coming out of his mouth were in defense of his autistic friend. Granted, that may be difficult to discern over gun fire.

Former DeKalb officer Robert Olsen was fired, denied immunity, and his trial is pending, as far as I can tell.

 

[misswired]

But that's not what happened in the OP's story. The trooper announced that he was taking the OP's boat, but in actuality, the OP drove him about, assisted in the search for the vehicle, and came back to get some divers. Nobody "took off" in anything . . .

AND; that's the truth!

 

[TomkinsSP]

There is a theory in law that predates our Constitution by several centuries.
In plainest English it is: Danger invites rescue.
If the public library is on fire, the police, firemen, or citizenry can break into the neighborhood hardware store for shovels, axes, and the like.
Any damages are paid later (this is where the Fifth comes into play).
Anybody who refuses the use of their property when lives may be at risk is an idiot.

Which theory, IMHO, is all that stopped Herr Hitler from conquering the Soviet Union and likely Western Civilization. Without the airplanes, tanks, trucks, locomotives, rail cars, fuel and foodstuffs provided by mostly the U.S.A. (and Britain), under the auspices of Lend Lease based upon that theory, the world would be a very different place indeed.

 

[Steve912]

Granted, that may be difficult to discern over gun fire.

.

While you do earn points in the "dry humor" category,
I believe you may be illustrating with a broad brush.

 

[ColbyBruce]

While you do earn points in the "dry humor" category,
I believe you may be illustrating with a broad brush.

Nothing humorous about anything in this thread.

“Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office announced that Officer Jonathan Aledda - a SWAT team member who had been commended for his police work - would be charged with one count of attempted manslaughter, a third-degree felony, and one count of culpable negligence, a first-degree misdemeanor.”

 

[petepeterson]

Nothing humorous about anything in this thread.

“Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office announced that Officer Jonathan Aledda - a SWAT team member who had been commended for his police work - would be charged with one count of attempted manslaughter, a third-degree felony, and one count of culpable negligence, a first-degree misdemeanor.”

You're wasting your time. You were asked to give an example, and you gave one. A quick search will give you even more. We'll assume that the lovely young lass in Minnesota with the Australian accent didn't curse either.
The usual suspects jump in to point out where you're wrong.
Nothing to see here.

 

[rustythread]

Regarding some of the questions about the actual occurrence of prosecutions for refusal to aid an officer when requested / demanded, I have located a recent law journal article. If I am lucky, I'll succeed in attaching a link. {EDIT--can't figure out how to add link. It's a 2018 Wyoming law journal article on the private person's duty to assist the police. Google will find it for you}

NOTE for non-lawyers: Most law journal articles are based on reported cases from appellate and supreme courts--i.e., disposition of cases on appeal. Appeals are a very small fraction of the cases heard by the courts, so for any given situation set out in an appellate court report, there could be hundreds of similar cases which were not appealed. Also, the state generallly does not have a right to appeal a decision in which the defendant in a criminal case was found not guilty.

 

[Ματθιας]

Regarding some of the questions about the actual occurrence of prosecutions for refusal to aid an officer when requested / demanded, I have located a recent law journal article. If I am lucky, I'll succeed in attaching a link. {EDIT--can't figure out how to add link. It's a 2018 Wyoming law journal article on the private person's duty to assist the police. Google will find it for you}

Just copy and paste your link.

 

[Muss Muggins]

That charge was proffered over a year ago. The time lapse would leave one to believe there are some issues

Nothing humorous about anything in this thread.

“Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office announced that Officer Jonathan Aledda - a SWAT team member who had been commended for his police work - would be charged with one count of attempted manslaughter, a third-degree felony, and one count of culpable negligence, a first-degree misdemeanor.”

 

[old tanker]

Kentucky's statutes grant quite a bit more authority to Constitutional peace officers and have higher expectations of duty as well. The Sheriff can still require service in a posse.

"KRS 70.060 Sheriff may command power of county.
Any sheriff, deputy sheriff or other like officer may command and take with him the power of the county, or a part thereof, to aid him in the execution of the duties of his office, and may summon as many persons as he deems necessary to aid him in the performance thereof."

 

[Steve912]

Just copy and paste your link.

This might be it...

https://repository.uwyo.edu/cgi/vie...le.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1515&context=wlj


It's a 2018 'reprint' of a 1958 article.

A more recent (1964, wooo) article, here...

https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/...&httpsredir=1&article=3298&context=law-review

"She got posse comitatus, written all over `er!!".