Legality of LEO Commandeering Private Property

I believe this reinforces my thoughts that unless you are a LEO in the jurisdiction where it is occurring, nothing good happens by chasing lights and sirens.
A friend was having a hectic day with her twins and one other in her hair. She heard a car crash and sirens and sent the kids to see to get them out while she fixed dinner. The cars driver was the children's' father. he made it but messed the kids up for a while mentally.
 
Having been a Trooper for 25 years, I find several problems with this story.

First, I don't know of any law or statute anywhere, that explicitly states that an LEO has the legal authority to commandeer a citizens private property. There may be federal statutes and SCOTUS rulings that may be *loosely* interpreted in that fashion, but that's a stretch. Again, I know of no law that clearly states, "If the cops say gimmee, you gotta." If a cop says "give me your car" and your reply is "f... you". They don't have a legal leg to stand on. Anything else is pure Hollywood.

Second, any cop who commandeers private property and it isn't AT LEAST on the level of the North Hollywood Bank Robbery, won't have a good day when it's all over. Try and commandeer a boat or a car and see what your bosses think of that. If you'd damaged the boat who'd be liable? The agency. So you went in hot pursuit in a privately owned, non emergency rated vehicle ? Good luck in your next job.

Lots of sh.. talking going on here.
 
If a cop says "give me your car" and your reply is "f... you". They don't have a legal leg to stand on. Anything else is pure Hollywood.
You think if a cop tells me to do something that I don't think is legal and I tell him what you suggest, that I will be okay?

I think my estate will be exonerated and I'll be buried handsomely, and someone on this forum will decide that I shouldn't have used the curse word so my death was my own fault.
 
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You think if a cop tells me to do something that I don't think is legal and I tell him what you suggest, that I will be okay?

I think my estate will be exonerated and I'll be buried handsomely, and someone on this forum will decide that I shouldn't have used the curse word so my death was my own fault.

I am sorry, I realize LEO's are human, but I doubt anybody is going to get dead just from using a curse word to a LEO. It is pretty common thing to happen to cops.
 
I disagree. Give an example of someone shot or killed by law enforcement for less than a curse word . . .

OK, a SC State Trooper shot a man in a gas station for reaching for his wallet.

There was a LEO who shot a social worker sitting on the ground with his hands and feet raised in the air.

In DeKalb county Georgia a officer shot an unarmed naked man.

Mistakes or intentional acts, the body count is rising.
 
In the last few years plenty of people have been shot, some killed, for less.

Plenty? I doubt that.

In our country of over 350,000,000 we have more than 423,000 police officers, not counting federal agencies.


The real numbers of police shooting citizens are miniscule, however those are widely reported in our agenda driven media.
 
In 1962, I had a summer job with the US Forest Service. While not hired as a fire fighter, all new hires were required to take a basic class in fire suppression. I think that we (surveyors) were the last line of defense.
We were told that the Fire Boss could commandeer private citizens to fight a forest fire. We were also told that the Law wasn't very practical, as if someone told us that they had a bad heart, etc, we had to take them at their word.

Best,
Rick
 
Plenty? I doubt that.

In our country of over 350,000,000 we have more than 423,000 police officers, not counting federal agencies.


The real numbers of police shooting citizens are miniscule, however those are widely reported in our agenda driven media.

God forbid one of your own friends or family members suffer this fate; however, may your own words bring you great comfort.
 
You think if a cop tells me to do something that I don't think is legal and I tell him what you suggest, that I will be okay?

I think my estate will be exonerated and I'll be buried handsomely, and someone on this forum will decide that I shouldn't have used the curse word so my death was my own fault.

I find your entire line of reasoning and overall attitude at best, specious and worth no further discussion.
 
There is much more to each of those stories, as you know . . .

OK, a SC State Trooper shot a man in a gas station for reaching for his wallet.

There was a LEO who shot a social worker sitting on the ground with his hands and feet raised in the air.

In DeKalb county Georgia a officer shot an unarmed naked man.

Mistakes or intentional acts, the body count is rising.
 
If this is the correct definition of your statement it implies an assumed authority. Taking something without permission is theft, is it not?
“Color of Law Law and Legal Definition. Color of law refers to an act done under the appearance of legal authorization, when in fact, no such right existed. It applies when a person is acting under real or apparent government authority.”

Theft is a taking of a thing of value with the intent permanently to deprive the lawful owner of its use or benefit.

The operative word there is "permanently". A commandeered item will be returned when the exigent circumstances have been mitigated, and any loss or damage must be reimbursed at fair market value.
 
Whether or not the police can commandeer a vehicle is solely up to the owner of the vehicle. Somebody show me a law where it says a Citizen is supposed to comply with such an order. Also show me case law where a Citizen refused and was criminally charged/convicted for not complying with such an order.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but here in Colorado a peace officer may order any citizen over the age of 15 to assist in maintaining the peace or apprehending an offender, and failure to comply with such an order is a misdemeanor criminal offense. I am not aware of any prosecutions under that statute, and I'm sure it would prove to be an interesting ride through the courts, but the law remains the law.
 
Theft is a taking of a thing of value with the intent permanently to deprive the lawful owner of its use or benefit.

The operative word there is "permanently". A commandeered item will be returned when the exigent circumstances have been mitigated, and any loss or damage must be reimbursed at fair market value.

No, theft is taking without consent.
 
No, theft is taking without consent.

No, the element of intent is what you are overlooking. Absent the intent to permanently deprive the lawful owner of his property there is no criminal act involved in official commandeering of private property for public use in an emergency.

There are relatively few "strict liability" crimes (no requirement to establish criminal intent). The majority of crimes require that the element of intent be proven in order to establish the criminal act.
 
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OK, a SC State Trooper shot a man in a gas station for reaching for his wallet.

There was a LEO who shot a social worker sitting on the ground with his hands and feet raised in the air.

In DeKalb county Georgia a officer shot an unarmed naked man.

Mistakes or intentional acts, the body count is rising.

The SC troopers major fault was being incompetent. The trooper pulled a young black man over as he was pulling into a gas station, and the black man was getting out to fuel his car before the trooper had even come to a stop.

At that point the trooper asked if the driver had a license, then asked him to get it. The soon to be victim complied by reaching into his vehicle and coming back out with his wallet, which prompted the trooper to shoot from about 5 yards, hitting the victim once and skipping the other two shots around the gas station.

This situation was even more egregious as the victim was wearing shorts with no pockets and it was reasonable to assume he did not in fact have the license on his person but rather in his vehicle. Thus the officer's assumption that he was reaching into the car for a weapon wasn't as reasonable as it should have been.

Details matter and it should have went a lot more like this:

Officer: Do you have a drivers license?

Motorist: Yes.

Officer: Where it is located?

Motorist: It's in my wallet.

Officer: Do you have your wallet on your person?

Motorist: No, it's on the passenger's seat in my car.

Officer: I need you to slowly reach into your car, and retrieve your wallet and I need you to continue to move slowly once you have it, so that I can verify you don't have a weapon in your hands. Please retrieve your wallet now.

The difference is that while in both cases the motorist is fully complying with the officer's request, when the officer doesn't not make unwarranted assumptions and is more specific about how the motorist needs to go about producing his VDL, no one gets shot in a mistake of fact shooting.

And mistake or fact or not, this trooper lost his job for his contribution in creating the mistake of fact situation.

I'll argue there was possibly a training gap, and I'll also argue that this officer was probably a bit too excitable for law enforcement work in the first place, but shootings like this are all too common.

In another shooting a few years ago a mother called the police for assistance in getting her son (who had schizophrenia) to be med compliant. After the officers arrived, the mother walked out the front door with her son behind her. He was not agitated but he was twirling a screw driver between his hands. The lead officer immediately yelled "Drop the weapon!" and when the individual did not comply shot and killed him - all within about 3 seconds of the mother coming out of the door.

The problem there was that while the presence of a "weapon" and the individual's refusal to drop it may have met a minimum legal standard to shoot, there was in fact no need for the use of deadly force.

The individual was calm, his mother clearly felt no threat was present, even if he was not med compliant that day the meds are persistent in his system, and even if he did pose a reasonable threat they officers had plenty of space available to defuse and de-escalate the situation. Instead, they escalated it a deadly force situation in 3 seconds.

I have heard that at least one of the officers was "trained" to interact with mentally ill suspects, but the short courses that often serve to make an officer an "expert" in an area like this are insufficient to impart any real expertise and seldom over come an attitude of "what ever it take to get home tonight" or "it's us against the civilians".

Until we do a better job of truly professionalizing law enforcement and paying officers what is needed to attract and then retain the best and brightest, we will continue to have these kinds of failures in police procedure.
 
No, the element of intent is what you are overlooking. Absent the intent to permanently deprive the lawful owner of his property there is no criminal act involved in official commandeering of private property for public use in an emergency.

There are relatively few "strict liability" crimes (no requirement to establish criminal intent). The majority of crimes require that the element of intent be proven in order to establish the criminal act.

You lost me at "permanently".

You're saying I can in fact steal your car as long as I "intend" to return it to you. No matter that I damaged it in an accident or shortened the life of the engine, transmission and tires in a high speed chase, or that you missed the job interview you were on your way to because I commandeered your car, resulting in you remaining unemployed, losing your house, etc.

When you commander something the intent is to deprive the owner of it. Period. Temporary or permanent doesn't matter, and even the temporary deprivation of that property can have permanent impact.

In effect, it's an officer deciding on the spot that his needs outweigh yours and unless that is very strictly limited it results in abuse of the public by the police. Not many departments are going to stand for that kind on action on the part of an officer unless the need is indeed extremely dire with lives clearly at stake.
 
OK, a SC State Trooper shot a man in a gas station for reaching for his wallet.

There was a LEO who shot a social worker sitting on the ground with his hands and feet raised in the air.

In DeKalb county Georgia a officer shot an unarmed naked man.

Mistakes or intentional acts, the body count is rising.

Your characterization makes it sound as though the man was shot for simply reaching for his wallet, you know the cop involved thought he was reaching for a gun. Fatal error in judgement, not to be taken lightly, but vastly different than your blasé statement that he shot FOR reaching for the wallet.

Why are you willing to believe this nonsense?
 
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