LEO Off-Duty and Retired Carry %

At my small PD (6 full time including the Chief and 10 part time), I am the only one that carries off duty all the time. If I am awake, I have a gun on me, period, unless I'm going somewhere with metal detectors. I started in LE in 1991 and have carried 24/7 since right after I started (when I got my first death threat), even when former Chiefs forbade us from carrying off duty.

For the rest, a couple carry most of the time. The rest only carry occasionally or never. I harp and harp and harp but they just won't do it. Keep in mind, most cops aren't gun guys. They carry a gun on duty because they have to, not because they want to. They can't be bothered to be burdened when off duty. When you see the condition of some of their duty guns, you'd think that they weren't carrying a functional gun on duty, anyway.

None of the retirees I talk to on a regular basis carry, either, They weren't gun guys, either, and were perfectly happy to hang up their gun belt when they retired and not carry at all anymore.
 
As I said in my opening post, when I worked for Probation/Parole only myself, one other PPO and the PPO who was the chief firearms instructor carried. I was in a unit at the time that was state wide and delt with nothing but the worst of the worst...no office time just all home visits and field supervision...

One of the guys in the unit was having lunch one day at a McDonald's not far from where he lives. While in the Mens Room he is accosted and assaulted by an ex-parolee he had who was part of the Irish Mafia. The ex-parolee manages to escape and after a car chase with local police he is arrested...with a gun in the car.

My co-worker, who had never carried OD before, tells me, "You know I eat in there quite often with my family and I could have had a major problem if he had pulled a gun when I didn't have one". He then started carrying OD. Didn't see him for a while but at qualification the next year I asked if he was still carrying OD...he broke eye contact, looked down and sheepishly said..."No..."

Nice guy, wonderful friend...but you can't cure complacency...

If you guys haven't seen this before...the OD LEO who captures the shooter is a California HP officer...who is unarmed...

Shots Fired: Palm Desert, California 03•30•1996 - Patrol - POLICE Magazine


Learn from the mistakes of others...it is cheaper in the long run....

Bob
 
I always carry a CS 45 when off of my property, I have carried it over 20 years. On the farm I carry a .380 Ruger pocket pistol. After seeing the worst side of humanity on the job, I cannot imagine going unarmed.
 
Before I retired from law enforcement last year, I carried nearly all the time off-duty. I carry about the same now, >95%. Exceptions are doctor appointments, going into the post office (PO Box), and other places where it isn't legal. With all the use of force training and shooting practice I have had over a 27 year career, it would be hard to live with being an unarmed witness to a violent crime such as an active shooter incident.

I live in a pretty safe community. I see former colleagues regularly in town. I believe that much less than half of them are carrying when I see them. I don't get it.
 
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SuperMan said:
...and what about those you worked with or other retirees you know...

Bob
Click to expand...

Prior to retirement, most all I know of carried at least 80% of the time. Of the retirees I'm still in contact with, all carry "off duty" 100% of the time. A couple took unarmed security jobs at a local hosptial, and can't carry on duty.

Three are now employed as armed security at a petrochemical plant refinery, and another two are employed as armed US Marshal contract security officers at the local federal courthouse. One started a firearms training business, CHL and advanced firearms, and another runs a hunting guide service in west Texas. Off duty, they are always armed as far as I know.
 
Began LE career in 1968 with local department; transitioned to Federal Agency in 1970, retired in 1998. Since 1968 I normally carried a Model 60 all of the time- on and off duty. When on the streets of NYC my primary weapon was a Model 59 or a SigSauer P226, with the Model 60 as a backup. If traveling to Canada I don't carry. Under LEOSA authority I should be able to carry firearms/ ammo that were authorized by agency in all 50 states; however some states prohibit hollow point ammo and limit magazine capacity contrary to federal law and policies. Thus, despite meeting LEOSA requirements, I am subject to arrest in several states for violating local laws. Regrettably our politicians will not address this problem of individual states undermining the LEOSA and exposing retired LE officers to arrest. Very sad.

We had a saying when I worked on a task force in NYC- there are 2 types of people in NYC, predator and prey. As a senior citizen, I am now prey, but I'll be damned if I don't go down fighting or stop to assist a citizen or cop who needs help, and in order to do that, a handgun is man's best friend.
 
Active; 15 years on so far. I always carry off duty since day 1 on the job. My agency relaxed its off duty weapon policy about 2 years ago, so now we can carry anything we want above a .380 caliber/no Q course needed. Which shocked a lot of us considering the over abundance of caution being exercised by departments these days. I carry a Model 36 square butt which I bought from a NYC Det. Even when I do yard work in the heat of the summer I carry a Beretta 950 .25 auto.

Exceptions: Traveling to DC off duty and armed is not advisable. I couldn't even enter a parking garage at the Reagan building- and entering any museum required me to sign into a log book. Not worth it. Beyond this, I always carry.
 
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I would wager that he wouldn't think it too funny if he runs into a violent felon he had previous dealings with on the job.

That happens. More than you think. Especially if you live inside the jurisdiction you police.

They can be amused. I will be well armed. ;) Regards 18DAI
 
Peace of Mind.... Like an experienced, capable car salesman who can quickly and fairly accurately size up a customer, those of us in law enforcement who have spent time on the streets of a high crime area generally develop street sense, much like a criminal has street sense. While on vacation in NM, my wife went into a Mexican restaurant on the outskirts of Alamogordo. I parked my NH registered vehicle about 30 yards off the street in a supermarket parking lot, where I had a view of the restaurant. It was about 100 degrees so one of us had to stay in the car with our 2 dogs. I saw a hitch hiker walking down the main drag, about 30 yards away. I removed my Model 60 from my ankle holster and had it in my lap, with my left hand covering it. I sized the guy up as a potential problem and felt I could be an easy target- an old fart in an out of state vehicle. Well, my suspicions started to pan out as the knucklehead looked at my car and approached. I figured "here we go" and figured I would have the element of surprise in my favor- if the guy pulled a knife or pistol I was predisposed to put 2 rounds in his chest at point blank range. Well, due to the temperature all my windows were down and he walked to the drivers side and demanded a ride, saying he would give me $10. He began to reach in his back pocket and before he could remove anything my normally docile Weimaraner, asleep in the rear of my 4Runner, growled and lept over the seat to tear him apart. I blocked the Weim with my elbow so that he couldn't leap out and attack the guy, and the guy took off, rather quickly. I thanked my dog, telling him he may have saved me a lot of paperwork. While I don't know if the guy was reaching for a weapon or his wallet, that Model 60 provided PEACE OF MIND. Noteworthy is that my Weim, a docile dog, came to the same conclusion as I did regarding this character.
 
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I started carrying when I became a reserve deputy, doing my college internship. A few months later, I was a fulltime deputy. I have carried off duty every day since.

When ever someone asks me WHY I carry, I relate this little story:

I was visiting my grandmother one summer. Her home was 800 miles away from the city where I worked. I was driving to the store and had my wife and youngest child with me. As I approached an intersection, I noticed that the car in the next lane also had an Alabama license plate. I eased up and the driver of the other car was being driven by a subject that I had arrested.

Now, the likelihood that the other driver would not have recognized me is pretty good, BUT why take the chance and be unarmed???

I assume that the majority of our Forum members have car insurance and spare tires in their vehicles. Do they wish to use them? Of course not; however, when you need a spare or coverage or a firearm, ain't nothing else will take their place!!
 
Through two departments and 37 years, I always carried off-duty. Now retired for nearly 5 years, I always carry (concealed, even though I live in a Constitutional carry state). In my first 16 years working for the first department, we were initially required to carry off duty for the first few years, although that was not rigidly enforced. In the last 21 years in my home town department we were not required by policy to carry off-duty, but it was strongly recommended. Now in retirement, I keep up my LEOSA qualifications and carry at all times. Of those other retirees I know, most carry most or all of the time; I'd say 80% or better.
 
Muley Gil said:
I started carrying when I became a reserve deputy, doing my college internship. A few months later, I was a fulltime deputy. I have carried off duty every day since.

When ever someone asks me WHY I carry, I relate this little story:

I was visiting my grandmother one summer. Her home was 800 miles away from the city where I worked. I was driving to the store and had my wife and youngest child with me. As I approached an intersection, I noticed that the car in the next lane also had an Alabama license plate. I eased up and the driver of the other car was being driven by a subject that I had arrested.

Now, the likelihood that the other driver would not have recognized me is pretty good, BUT why take the chance and be unarmed???

I assume that the majority of our Forum members have car insurance and spare tires in their vehicles. Do they wish to use them? Of course not; however, when you need a spare or coverage or a firearm, ain't nothing else will take their place!!
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Right there ya go !!!

Those that we have dealt with professional, only have to remember one face.

.
 
I'm not and never have been a police officer, but I have to say I'm surprised at some of the low percentages of off-duty and retirement carry on this thread.

I did have jobs for a number of years that required me to send some people to jail or prison, or help them send themselves there by poor decision-making. Some assured me they would remember me unkindly when they got out, and that was one of the initial reasons I started carrying concealed when it became legal in Kentucky.

That was over twenty years ago, so now my reasons to carry are diminished by one and some new ones have been added, but it made sense then.
 
The first agency I worked for required all officers to carry their badge and gun off duty. I put in 35 years, worked for four different agencies, a large metro agency, a state highway patrol agency, a small county SD, then a large federal agency.
I carried OD 100%. I have been retired now for 10 years, carry 100%. When I put my pants on, there is a holster for a J frame, if I go " out amongst them" I carry my Glock 20 w/ two extra mags.
When I go to the LEOSA qualification hosted by a local SD, I see quite a few retired LEO's that carry regularly.
 
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I carried daily, on- and off-duty, while working. Since retirement, I often have a revolver in my car or when horseback or hiking, but certainly not all of the time, or even most of the time. I've been contracting the past few years and you do NOT carry unless specifically authorized; if you do, you can have loaded mags but not a loaded sidearm or M4. That's true for IQ or AF either one. Embassy and base security contractors have different rules.
 
biku324 said:
...
I've been contracting the past few years and you do NOT carry unless specifically authorized; if you do, you can have loaded mags but not a loaded sidearm or M4. That's true for IQ or AF either one. Embassy and base security contractors have different rules.
Click to expand...

From a few thousand miles away through the lens of what's on the news, that seems a bit risky, no?
 
Nope, not at all unless you're just unlucky. I have no death wish, I just like making good money.

If I am armed and things get bad enough that I need a weapon, inserting a mag and charging will be no biggie. Indirect fire (IDF) is the biggest risk, and millennial jihadis consider 107mm rockets to be a form of political free speech:).
 
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The only use (discharge) of off-duty firearms I was aware of in my first agency, both involved alcohol consumption. One off-duty deputy got into a personal beef with another bar patron and it went outside and escalated. Both parties were legally intoxicated. The deputy ended the confrontation by shooting the other guy. In spite of claiming self defense, the deputy was charged with voluntary manslaughter and was convicted. He went to prison. The other occurrence involved 3 off duty narcs who were walking down the sidewalk and 2 local tough guys picked a fight - which quickly turned into an exchange of gunfire. All parties were intoxicated. No one died in this incident, but one of the off-duty deputies was grazed by a bullet.
 
I carried basically 24/7 until I retired. During the last 12+ years I worked 8 years as a Security Analyst for a large corporation and was not permitted to carry at work. Otherwise I pocket carry when I leave the house. Quite a few of my old PD co-workers stopped carrying the day they retired but most were not "gun people" to start with.
 
100% of the time on and off duty. Just last week I went to get a DOT physical for a part time job that I am going to do driving this season. I guy walked into the waiting room while I was sitting there and said, Tom?. I said yes. He knew me from being Chief of Police in my town. We had a long conversation and still do not know who he was!! I was UnderSheriff and Jail Administrator at Eagle County Colorado prior to that for 16 years. I used to run onto guys all the time off duty that knew me from being incarcerated in my jail. In many cases I had no clue who they were.
 
Chalk me up as another one who carried off-duty each and every day while on the job. I retired a little over a year ago and still carry at all times when out of the house. It's just part of my attire. The reality is... caca could happen and does happen.

I would venture to say that about 50% of the agents in my office when I was working carried off-duty. And, I would put the number of retirees I know that carry daily at about 50% as well.

Furthermore, I also carry an impact device on a daily basis when out an about. Like many communities in our country, ours has seen an increase in crime perpetrated by tweakers and/or homeless types. Some have demonstrated aggresive tendencies on occasion against folks just minding their own business. Hence, I prefer to have another option at my disposal to handle a situation wherein the presentation of a firearm may not be necessarily prudent.

Fortunately, I live in a state that is not too restrictive in what one (LE or not) can carry on their person.
 
I'm not a LEO , nor have been in the past . But I will tell you , having worked as a cowboy most of my adult life , sometimes miles and miles away from civilization all by myself , day in and day out . I can tell you that when someone says that " the wild west is dead " , don't believe it ! ! ! The last ranch I was on , I packed a 357 on a hip holster and a 30-30 on my saddle , for a very good reason . I still carry today , Regards, Paul
 
My last 6 years before I retired I was the chief firearms instructor for my department of 400 armed personnel. Prior to my getting the job, all the training staff did was run an annual qualification. I initiated quarterly firearms training, shotgun qualification, rifle qualification, and off-duty weapon qualification. The shotgun, rifle, and OD qual were optional but the department did require personnel who wanted to carry those weapons to qualify with them.

I was very saddened to see something less than 50% of the deputies attended OD qualification. That held true until I retired.

I started carrying off duty the day I graduated from the academy and was sworn in. Except for being in the hospital for surgery (LOL) I've carried every day since it became legal. Arizona did not have a carry permit until Sept. of 1994. Prior to that even retired LEOs could not legally carry concealed and I didn't. I was one of the early people to get a permit and have had one ever since.

Of the three retired deputies I stayed in touch with once CC permits were available, one carried all the time, one some of the time and one hardly at all.

Dave
 
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My great uncle was Detroit PD from the late 60s till the 2000s. He always carried OD. In the early days he carried some sort of .38 snobby until he got into an off duty shooting. He was picking my mom up from work while she was pregnant with me. He tried intervening in a car jacking. However it happened (you know family legends) he put rounds into the windshield and they didnt penetrate. He carried some sort of .45 after that on duty and off. When I hung around him the most in the early 90s its was a 645. I know he carried that gun till they pried it out of his fingers snd stuffed a glock 22 in his hand.
When he first retired he still carried. As age and medical conditions have taken hold he has stopped. We dont discuss it but he used to wear a satin baseball style jacket everywhere and he doesnt any more. He doesnt like change so I dont see him modifying his form of carry now either.
 
24 years active with 3 agencies. Always carried off-duty. Retired 24 years ago next month, started a business, made a conscious effort to NOT CARRY all the time (but always had a pistol handy in the truck). Fast forward a couple of years, then every day's newspaper reported another drive-by shooting, every evening news program reported another home invasion robbery, couple of friends robbed in broad daylight while walking to their cars in supermarket parking lots, friend's wife shot during a carjacking. Decided enough was more than enough, pulled out the hardware and geared up. Haven't left the house without a side arm for the past 20 years.

Friends ask "why do you still carry a gun?". I tell them that I carry homeowners insurance but I don't want my house to burn down, I carry car insurance but I don't look forward to being in an accident, and I carry a pistol but I don't want to be in a gun fight. Some things are better to have and never need than to need and not have.
 
SuperMan said:
Thanks all for the replies....

...really sad that more don't carry...

On another forum one retired officer said he has never carried a gun since the day he retired nor had any of his many retired friends...they kinda looked at it as a joke....
Click to expand...
A friend went up the ranks from patrolman to chief and before he retired his comment to me was that he couldn't wait to give them back his gun! He was a jogger and lives in the same town he served. He's typical of officers I worked with and know.


18DAI said:
I would wager that he wouldn't think it too funny if he runs into a violent felon he had previous dealings with on the job.

That happens. More than you think. Especially if you live inside the jurisdiction you police.

They can be amused. I will be well armed. ;) Regards 18DAI
Click to expand...
For most of the time I served, I only carried OD when I was visiting certain cities. Since I was a part-timer, my full-time job was at a company that forbid weapons, so I had to comply. Since I started working as a Constable it's 100% except where the law forbids it. I keep up LEOSA as well. One day I'm in the local supermarket, put the groceries on the conveyor (but can't see the cashier due to racks of candy/etc.). When I moved up, my mind went "oh ****!" it was a woman who we arrested during an eviction. Yup, it can happen anywhere and according to the PD, she suffered from some mental issues (she didn't last at the supermarket either).
 
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