LEOs & armed guards at every school? Here’s a better way.

[Bat Guano]

Well, Merril, we know what gun free zones, heads in the sand, and doing nothing get us.

As for a general issue of weapons to teachers--probably the last time that made any sense was in Sparta.

 

[Sailfish 40]

This is not to detract from LEOs and armed guards that are already in place at schools. It’s just that there are so many small schools and the guns are so rarely needed that the cost of having personnel hang around with very little to do isn‘t justified. As an extreme example, there is still at least one public one room school with grades K thru 7 on an island in Washington.

I see guns in schools the same way I see life preservers on the state ferries. Coast Guard regulations require the ferries to have life preservers and require sailors be trained to deploy them. It is obviously absurd to pay extra sailors without other jobs to hang around the life preserves. Why shouldn’t schools be required to have a few guns as basic safety equipment and some school employees be required to have training to carry or at least be able to deploy those guns? Additional employees are not necessary. Educators who are proud of their advanced degrees certainly are intelligent enough to operate a simple gun. Existing employees just need to be forced to provide a safe place for the children they are responsible for.

We just need some portion of “the government” to serve the role of the Coast Guard in my example. It would have to be federal or liberal areas would remain unarmed. They’d have to be forced to comply by withholding all federal funds it they refused.

I’ll leave it for someone else to pick which school job classifications would be required to be armed and or trained. That hardly matters anyway because we all know this isn’t going to happen without conservatives up at the top of the pecking order.

What do think? Is this idea better than the NRA’s?

I like this idea. Make it optional for any staff to participate in the program. i'm sure it would be a minority. train them and maybe pay them more or give some other perk.

 

[GaryS]

Wrong. During my time in the NYS public education system, I found that educators with advanced degrees were some of the dumbest people I'd ever encountered. Common sense was a sorely lacking commodity in my former district, and I cannot identify a single teacher out of 150+ who would know a gun barrel from a beer barrel.

Credentialed, not educated is the term I've heard.

Public schools are allocated $ by their home states. You'll never leverage a pro-gun policy into the school system by threatening to withhold funding. Do some research about NY's Governor, and check out his policies on public education and gun rights. This is the type of clueless politico who's in charge all over the country.

There is a lot of federal grant money that goes to public schools. That's why the NEA and other teacher unions support big government. Still, you point is valid because the school administrators and others wouldn't stand for a program where anyone other the police officers carry firearms in schools. Heck, they don't even want them to carry, but have no choice.

My wife's sister acts as a "shadow" for this SPECIAL NEEDS kid in grade school. Really no more than a baby sitter for this kid of 10 she is paid $12 per hr...This kid is her ONLY responsibility too.
l think if the school can afford 12 bucks/hr for just ONE kid they could easily spend $20/hr for a guard to protect ALL

This is often because they HAVE to do this, not because they have money floating around to spend. The special educations laws of many states require 1 on 1 aides for some types of special ed students. Again, there is sometimes federal or state grant money available for this.

A similar issue of whether or not EMTs and paramedics should be allowed to carry firearms comes up about once a week on the EMS forums. The arguments are much the same as in this debate. My position is that EMTs and paramedics who are already licensed to carry concealed weapons should be able to independently of their job. Same goes for teachers. Heck, the same goes for everyone no matter what their job is. The Second Amendment should apply to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

 

[jaykellogg]

Actually I like the idea of having armed personnel at schools if that person also teaches gun safety. Then perhaps in High School the armed instructor could teach gun handeling.

Be aware that in some of our past school shootings there were armed security people present without beneficial effect.

A lower cost solution would be to harden the classrooms and offices with better locks and bullet resistant glass to allow the police more time to respond.

 

[feralmerril]

Look. We can protect people on the other side of the planet. We protect our top politicans. We have cops and guards at sports events, TSA, not to began to mention paid private guards in factorys and business`s. All the above are paid. What is wrong with haveing volunteers. I would have a program that does background checks and a standard of training. I belive people here are naturaly pictureing in their minds schools of a thousand kids or more. Dont most of those size schools already have a paid cop assigned by the city? I have been talking about the many thousands of smaller schools where the rual areas really cant afford paid guards.
All over this country in rich citys down to poor country areas we have volunteer fire departments and almost all if not all, police and sheriff depts seem to get unpaid reserves. It absolutely is the "romance" of the job that draws people to want to work for free. Now sitting in a schoolyard or in a hallway reading a book in civilian cloths doesnt sound too romantic or exciteing listening to a bunch of squalling kids does it? I usualy look for a different table in a resturant when that happens to me!
Yet I belive there is enough retired people out there that would do it.
What are the actual figuers differance between aircraft hijacks and killings and killings in schools? Does a man that flys on business value his life more than his kid that go`s to school unprotected? Now, how much is spent on the whole TSA system as opposed to already paid school guards.
It fast gets to be all about numbers and odds doesnt it? Bottom line is life is a gamble. Isnt it insane not to take advantage of people that may want to volenteer to protect their grandchildren? I guess a person could take their chances with law enforcement and lawyers if found sitting on the street in their car armed, or being "blessed" by the system by haveing attended a fed or state backed training and background check system.

 

[williamlayton]

I contend that any CCW holder in the state of Texas could do as well as any that could be hired and if it were a teacher you are applying pressure to the point of the bleeding.
I also do not hold the same opinion of teachers that some here do.
Blessings

 

[feralmerril]

How about this? I just seen on fox that the average person whos income is 20,000 to 30,000 dollars will go up a little over a $1,000s in extra taxs now. Many of us retirees are in that bracket. How about letting us work off our taxs at a meer $5 a hour guarding schools? Hell ov a deal!

 

[sw282]

lf parents spent half the time protecting the kids as they do supprting the football team we would have the safest schools around

 

[feralmerril]

I remember my very first day in school. Some older kid stood on the merry go round while other kids pumped it back and forth. Then he dared me to do it without grabbing anything. I wouldnt do it so he threw a rock at me and bloodied my forehead. I thought him too big to lick so walked home to my folks general store. I picked up dads belt that was always on the wall to keep me in line. Dad seen me, let me walk about a block ahead and followed me to see what I was up to. Recess was over and no kids were in sight. Dad disarmed me as I was going in the school. Off thread I know, just happened to remember that.

 

[mkk41]

Unless we lock all the kids in behind windowless steel and concrete doors and walls , no law or non-lethal plan is ever gonna stop a demented individual with a lethal plan and the willingness to die while or after carrying it out.

 

[feralmerril]

No, we cant. We even couldnt prevent kennedy and president regan from getting shot. But we can prevent or diswade most from trying. It just depends on how much money we want to spend. You look at the odds and see how much its worth betting. I have said that forever about everything I do.

 

[Badkarma 1]

And yet the missed point of the Tacoma shootings was that until the store owner rushed out and challenged the coward with the AK, said coward figured he had a target rich environment of unarmed targets! Seeing even a snub .38 in the hands of a resolute owner, made him turn tail and run!
Just like the monster in Newtown. He was starting to reload after shooting up the class room, he turned and saw several LEOs approaching rapidly, this punk then took out a pistol and ended his existence!
Should teachers be armed...only if they want to. And why not put some of us veterans on the job? Dale

 

[feralmerril]

I never will forget a stupid incident in high school. I was stretched out on a narrow cement wall at a entrance to the school durring lunch hour. The school loud mouth came up mouthing off something about how tough he was and I wasnt or similar. I wasnt worried in the least but I guess in turning around to look him over or answer I honestly unintendionly rolled off the wall. He thought I was getting off to come after him and started yelling he was sorry etc! Not all these nuts are like that but many are.

 

[snubbyfan]

I remember the janitor in my grade school was a retired WWII vet. My shop teacher in High school was a retired Vietnam vet. Both trained soldiers. We already have trained personnel out there they just need to be utilized.

 

[delta-419]

Schoolgrounds vs. Battlegrounds

My wife and I had this very discussion several nights ago. The world has changed greatly in the last 30 years. It is a different place where violence is the rule. The schoolground is now the new battleground and no amount of blaming inanimate onjects and poor mental health will change that. I spent over 34 years with the DOD managing its "people programs" all over the world and I never saw or heard of gun violence at a DoDDS school populated by kids of all ages, daycare thru high school. Why?? Many bases have been attacked by our enemies, but the kids have remained safe. They are protected by MPs and Federal Guards and trained teachers. Teachers are the "Boots on the Ground" and a way must be found to bring them into the act of defending their cahrges with whatever force necessary. There are a lot of former military that are teachers, we need to hear from them. This problem transcends the liberal/conservative argument. The battlefield is real and the solution must meet the challenge, a defensive stradegy is mandated, be it armed guards are armed teachers. That's my 2 cents and obtw we both have advanced graduate degrees.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

This might makes some people angry, but here's in my two cents.

When folks talk about armed security at our schools, it usually means hiring a contract guard service. Do not get me wrong here, there are MANY MANY good folks in the contract guard biz. However, most that I have dealt with in over two decades have been little more than warm bodies in a cheap uniform provided by a guard contractor who is really little more than a personnel agency.
I have only met a very small handful of the guards I have worked with over the years that I would trust with a sidearm. The biz is set to a price, not a standard. Having this kind of service may be cost effective for the district...but in the addage of "you get what you pay for" opens up a whole can of worms on other problems.
When I was growing up, there was no such thing as school police. In my district, the Principal was the highest authority for everyone on campus. If things got beyond that, then the Sheriff's office or HPD was called in. Now, just about every school district of any size has its own police force or contracts with the local Constable's office for such things. Most of the schools I have seen these days have a school district cop stationed on site during the day. Some of these campuses are way to big to be properly serviced by one officer.
The real answers will have to come from each individual school district in each area. However, my firm recommendation would be for them to steer clear of contract security guards or "volunteers" in favor of someone with full police powers, training, and authority.
I have known many teachers who were proficient and knowledgeable with firearms. But having them armed on campus is also a can of worms.

 

[Onomea]

...
I have known many teachers who were proficient and knowledgeable with firearms. But having them armed on campus is also a can of worms.

A can of worms in what sense? Controversial, do you mean?

 

[Harrison]

If teachers themselves are not leftist, their unions certainly are. I cannot see the teachers unions agreeing to armed teachers. Not in public schools anyway. As for school administrators, in general, common sense is not part of their vocabulary or mind set. Even teachers will tell you that.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

A can of worms in what sense? Controversial, do you mean?

Guns is schools will ALWAYS be controversial. What I mean is the politics involved. Even if school staff were trained and armed. Due to the political stances involved, most likely the pistol would be locked in the school administrative offices and would not be readily availible in the event of an emergency. Even the administrators so involved in this would not carry all the time while on grounds.
While all of us feel the same way on the political side of the issue, the fact is it is still there. If another event occurs and the administrator is armed, but doesn't have nor can access the gun in an emergency, the results will be "The Principal had a gun and it did no good..." and will only fuel an already growing anti-firearm sentiment in parts of this nation.

 

[Joewisc]

Joe, do you think paranoid is really the term to describe Israel's system of readiness?

Yes despite an immense superiority over their enemies. The Israels have nukes, tanks, modern weaponry, a huge army and air force vs a disorganized Palestinian band of rock throwers and old, ineffective missiles. I'll steer away from the politics except to say it's a military mismatch of epic proportions.