Let's see your sporterized Military Surplus Rifles

[GypsmJim]

OK, I actually DO have a sporter in my collection. Bought early in my shooting carreer and not molested by me personally.

Back in 1972 I bought what looked like an unissued 03-A3 in KMart for 40 bucks. Being very anxious I also bought a Whack-a-Mole, a box of bullets, a box of brass and a can of IMR-3031 powder. Turned out It would not shoot (I believe the firing pin was broken), so I took it back. They had none left so I got my money back.

With all that ammo I found a sporter, but had to pay double my original price. It's still in my collection, although I also have 2 other 03-A3's that I acquired later.

Remington 1943 with original barrel cut down. Fajen Supreme stock and Unertl 4x scope. At 100 yards if I do my part I can do a 3-shot string with all holes touching.

 

[ColbyBruce]

Some of the north Georgia members may have known the gunsmith T.C. Kennon of Stone Mountain. He sporterized various Springfield and Mauser rifles. Kennon rifles usually had Douglas barrels and R-F stocks. He could be talked into shortening actions and made a few .22/250 and .250 Savage rifles. I always wanted one but never found a Kennon rifle in the calibers I preferred.

 

[noonster]

Sporters, cont.

There are VERY few original milsurps out there. Pretty much all have had replacement stocks, barrels, other stuff replaced over the years. And the "restored" ones are nothing more than "restored." I still have a couple chop-ups. Krags make a fine rifle (sport) and the price is amazing usually. I've had others over the years. Back in the 50's and 60's there were always articles in the gun mags about how to sporterize the (whatever) gun. Even in the early 60's (62?) there was an article in Am Rflmn: how to sporterize the Garand. I kept a Xerox. After I "get my wings" I'm gonna have fun looking down here, reading the guys squawk about how some goofball messed up that perfectly good AK47 or Makarov to "whatever" it. Not too many of the base models are what we'd call rare. Enjoy them - it's part of their history.

 

[LVSteve]

There are VERY few original milsurps out there. Pretty much all have had replacement stocks, barrels, other stuff replaced over the years.

So long as those changes were made by the military, they are still original to most collectors.

 

[LVSteve]

I wouldn't mind cutting up a Mosin to make a usable hunting rifle.

You do know that certain Mosins are very collectible, I hope.

 

[AJ]

So long as those changes were made by the military, they are still original to most collectors.

You do know that certain Mosins are very collectible, I hope.

Steve,

I feel as you do. But some will never understand.

AJ

 

[smithman 10]

Good that they are collectable

Because they sure are a pain in the shoulder to shoot! Particularly the carbines.

Hell of ball of flame out of the muzzle when twilight approached. I could hardly get anyone to shoot my 91/59 carbine at the range once they saw me fire it. I got it from a geezer about 15 years ago for $100 and sold it for $200, I believe. Wonder what it would bring today?

 

[Golddollar]

You do know that certain Mosins are very collectible, I hope.

I look for Russian arms that have Finnish capture marks.

 

[Tom K]

Back in 1994 I bought this Mauser Destroyer Carbine that had been someone else's project, at a gun show for $200. (At the time, unaltered surplus Destroyers were going for about $100 due to being chambered for the uncommon-in-the-USA 9mm Largo.)

This gun had been converted to .45ACP with a new barrel (still in the white) and an altered 1911 magazine made to fit the magazine well. The bolt handle had been cut off, bent, and clumsily rewelded. New sights were put on with a peep of unknown origin on the rear of the receiver. The forward hardware for the full length stock was stripped and gone, and the end cut more or less flush with the barrel. The top picture is how it looked when I bought it.

I took the gun to the range a few times and it shot pretty well, in spite of me finally noticing that the front sight was loose. I have little to no gunsmithing skills so I put it away, unfinished, for a later day.

In 2021 I finally took it to my local gunsmith that I had found who does reliable work. I had him clean up the metal, work on the action a little, bead blast it and blue it. He doesn't do stock work so I expect one day I'll finally cut the forend back to an appropriate length, shape it, strip, and refinish it.

This last picture is one that I found on the internet of someone else's gun, with original barrel and sights. It shows more or less what I'd probably try to make the stock look like.

 

[smithman 10]

Destroyer

Have you fired it recently?

 

[GypsmJim]

You do know that certain Mosins are very collectible, I hope.

The older Russian ones with octagon barrels are collectible. Also, original Model 91 long rifles that were not converted to 91/30.

All of the Finnish models are the most collectible. Look for ones that were built on Russian receviers, reclaimed from Russian ships that were sunk by the Finns.

The Finn Model 39 was acclaimed as the most accurate rifle, because when they built them if it didn't pass an accuracy test they were scrapped. Back in the 1990's Century Arms came across a cache of them that were new and unissued.

 

[AJ]

Back in 1994 I bought this Mauser Destroyer Carbine that had been someone else's project, at a gun show for $200. (At the time, unaltered surplus Destroyers were going for about $100 due to being chambered for the uncommon-in-the-USA 9mm Largo.)

This gun had been converted to .45ACP with a new barrel (still in the white) and an altered 1911 magazine made to fit the magazine well. The bolt handle had been cut off, bent, and clumsily rewelded. New sights were put on with a peep of unknown origin on the rear of the receiver. The forward hardware for the full length stock was stripped and gone, and the end cut more or less flush with the barrel. The top picture is how it looked when I bought it.

I took the gun to the range a few times and it shot pretty well, in spite of me finally noticing that the front sight was loose. I have little to no gunsmithing skills so I put it away, unfinished, for a later day.

In 2021 I finally took it to my local gunsmith that I had found who does reliable work. I had him clean up the metal, work on the action a little, bead blast it and blue it. He doesn't do stock work so I expect one day I'll finally cut the forend back to an appropriate length, shape it, strip, and refinish it.

This last picture is one that I found on the internet of someone else's gun, with original barrel and sights. It shows more or less what I'd probably try to make the stock look like.

Great job resurrecting a "Bubba Gun". I remember the Mauser Destroyers, and thinking why did they make the rifles into those? Need a target now!

 

[sigp220.45]

I like seeing sporterized ex-military guns. They were modified to suit their owners needs and put meat on the table for decades. Nothing "Bubba" about it.

My only one is this old SMLE, done about 50 years ago when these were cheap and plentiful. It was my truck gun for a long time, but I think all I ever shot with it were rocks and the occasional coyote or porcupine.

I have no plans to "restore" it. I like it just the way it is.

 

[Muddyboot]

smoothshooter
".303 ammo is neither cheap or readily available any more."

I see bulk surplus .303 on Gunbroker often, (over 500 rounds) at very good prices. It may not be the best ammo around but supplies a lot of bang for the buck.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I look for Russian arms that have Finnish capture marks.

I have a Russian sword captured in the Winter War - thanks for the reminder!

 

[desi2358]

As to surplus 303 British, most that I have seen in the last few years has been Pakistani (POF) and it is notorious for misfires and hangfires. The problem seems to be the primers. They can be a good source for bullets though if you buy them cheap enough as I have salvaged quite a few. There have been other lots from different sources but many seem to have been the victims of poor storage and in my experience is also not dependable shooting ammo. The 303 is an easy cartridge to load and I mainly shoot my own reloads in mine. Neck sizing only (and keeping the brass assigned to one rifle) I get good case life with clean, accurate ammo.

As to the OP's post I have never been into sporterizing old military rifles. The closest I ever came to that was tricking out a couple SKS rifles with aftermarket stocks & mags back when they were cheap (and everywhere). Didn't make any permanent mods and put them back in their original stocks when I later sold them off (and sold the aftermarket parts separately, made more money that way LOL).

I have owned quite a few old military rifles that had been sportered years ago. Back when they were cheap and there were many of them to be had. Some had been nicely done, some were quick hack jobs. They made for fun, cheap shooting. Restored a couple to their military form to fill out my collection (usually just repairing a cut off forearm and replacing a couple bands). Some of the hack jobs I cleaned up and made nicer looking sporters out of, the nicer ones didn't need any work. They had been done by someone who had the time and skill to do it right.

Nowadays anyone who cuts up an original is throwing money away in my view. If they have the skill to make a really nice sporting rifle they would be better off just buying a stripped action and building on that. If they just want a cheap hunting rifle many new guns are really very affordable and would be a better choice. Or simply hit the gunshows, pawnshops and gun stores looking for a milsurp someone cut up long ago.

 

[Muddyboot]

When it comes to .303 surplus stick to FNH or Greek HXP, avoid the Pakistanian, Egyptian and some (depends on date of Manufacture, South African).

 

[GypsmJim]

When it comes to .303 surplus stick to FNH or Greek HXP, avoid the Pakistanian, Egyptian and some (depends on date of Manufacture, South African).

THAT's the problem with .303. You have to be picky and choosy. Don't always know what to expect.

I learned long ago not to even try. In contrast I have spam cans and cases of 8mm Mauser and 7.65x54 Mosin ammo that is all non-corroded (on the outside) and sure fire. Some date back as far as 1938.

Of course, don't forget to use some GI Bore Cleaner because ALL of it is corrosive.

 

[Ματθιας]

In the late 1990s, a friend of mine had a K98 he'd inherited. It was a beautiful numbers matching single rune 43 or 44 BNZ. The bore was so shiny it gave off its own light! I offered him $1500 on the spot. I knew he wouldn't sell, but I asked him to remember me if he'd ever wanted to get rid of it.

A few years later I got a call, he was ready to sell. I told him my offer was still the same, but I wanted to see it again.

Long story short, he paid a lot of money to sporterize/bubba that beautiful rifle! He wanted a huntin' rifle!

The receiver was drilled and tapped, the bolt jeweled, the barrel was cut with a new front sight. The stock was chopped.

I had no interest. I wouldn't have given him $100 for that rifle. He was NOT happy with me! He got angrier when I told him he killed any collectible value the rifle had when he made permanent mods - even though he'd dropped all that money on it!

I did buy the cleaning rod and sight hood, though. Those went on a Russian capture I still have.

Oh, well.

 

[LVSteve]

In the late 1990s, a friend of mine had a K98 he'd inherited. It was a beautiful numbers matching single rune 43 or 44 BNZ. The bore was so shiny it gave off its own light! I offered him $1500 on the spot. I knew he wouldn't sell, but I asked him to remember me if he'd ever wanted to get rid of it.

A few years later I got a call, he was ready to sell. I told him my offer was still the same, but I wanted to see it again.

Long story short, he paid a lot of money to sporterize/bubba that beautiful rifle! He wanted a huntin' rifle!

The receiver was drilled and tapped, the bolt jeweled, the barrel was cut with a new front sight. The stock was chopped.

I had no interest. I wouldn't have given him $100 for that rifle. He was NOT happy with me! He got angrier when I told him he killed any collectible value the rifle had when he made permanent mods - even though he'd dropped all that money on it!

I did buy the cleaning rod and sight hood, though. Those went on a Russian capture I still have.

Oh, well.

Dang, that made for painful reading. These days such horrors can be avoided by the owner buying a lower end Savage, Mossberg, or Ruger for hunting.

 

[LVSteve]

The older Russian ones with octagon barrels are collectible. Also, original Model 91 long rifles that were not converted to 91/30.

All of the Finnish models are the most collectible. Look for ones that were built on Russian receviers, reclaimed from Russian ships that were sunk by the Finns.

The Finn Model 39 was acclaimed as the most accurate rifle, because when they built them if it didn't pass an accuracy test they were scrapped. Back in the 1990's Century Arms came across a cache of them that were new and unissued.

Don't write off the 91/30 as a collectible. There are Finnish built examples, the rare Albanian rifles, the almost legendary Polish made rifles, and even certain years of the Soviet round receiver guns are rare.

 

[Fishinfool]

Back in 1971, when I was 12 years old, I used my father's model 94 for my first "official" deer hunt at camp with the adults. But, I wanted my own "deer rifle". I read a ton of Elmer Keith's writings, and decided it had to be a big bore.

My budget being what you would expect, I came across a gun shop with several racks of DWM 1909 Argentine contract Mausers, most in the white, and really clean. $65.00. I provided the cash, and my dad did the paperwork, and one came home with me, in the 7.65 Argentine caliber (roughly equal to an 30-06)

Removed the military sights, refinished and reshaped the stock, had the receiver D&T for scope and aperture sights, bolt handle lowered, barrel cut down to 22 inches, and rechambered / bored to 35 Whelen. Mounted a rear Lyman peep, and a ramped gold bead front sight. Had a Weaver 1x4 scope in QR Weaver bases for when I wanted to use a scope.

It was a real go to rifle for many years and accounted for my biggest buck ever when I was 14 years old. A real Northern Maine stud. I also learned a lot about ballistics and handloading as the Whelen was a wildcat only back then. I think I was the only 14 year old handloader I knew back then.. I used it just a couple years ago to take a doe.

In the end, I don't know I saved any $$ over just buying a clean model 70 or 700, but I did acquire a true custom rifle - Not fancy, but built to my minds eye as the perfect north woods big game rifle. 50 years later, it kinda still is...

Larry

 

[Ματθιας]

Dang, that made for painful reading. These days such horrors can be avoided by the owner buying a lower end Savage, Mossberg, or Ruger for hunting.

I know you're a milsurp guy, and you would've been upset if you'd seen how pristine that rifle was when I first saw it. It wasn't a bad looking sporter, but, it was a single rune BNZ!

 

[Ματθιας]

Don't write off the 91/30 as a collectible. There are Finnish built examples, the rare Albanian rifles, the almost legendary Polish made rifles, and even certain years of the Soviet round receiver guns are rare.

Don't forget the 91/30 snipers and ex-snipers. Some of those are bringing in some $$$.

 

[StrawHat]

Here is another one. This one I bought in its present condition. All I did was install the rear sight. I also have a Litschert scope if I decide I need it.

You can not visibly spot the modification.

This is a Springfield Model 1922 that has been converted from 22 Long Rifle rimfire to 22 Hornet, centerfire.

Kevin

 

[AJ]

Back in 1971, when I was 12 years old, I used my father's model 94 for my first "official" deer hunt at camp with the adults. But, I wanted my own "deer rifle". I read a ton of Elmer Keith's writings, and decided it had to be a big bore.

My budget being what you would expect, I came across a gun shop with several racks of DWM 1909 Argentine contract Mausers, most in the white, and really clean. $65.00. I provided the cash, and my dad did the paperwork, and one came home with me, in the 7.65 Argentine caliber (roughly equal to an 30-06)

Removed the military sights, refinished and reshaped the stock, had the receiver D&T for scope and aperture sights, bolt handle lowered, barrel cut down to 22 inches, and rechambered / bored to 35 Whelen. Mounted a rear Lyman peep, and a ramped gold bead front sight. Had a Weaver 1x4 scope in QR Weaver bases for when I wanted to use a scope.

It was a real go to rifle for many years and accounted for my biggest buck ever when I was 14 years old. A real Northern Maine stud. I also learned a lot about ballistics and handloading as the Whelen was a wildcat only back then. I think I was the only 14 year old handloader I knew back then.. I used it just a couple years ago to take a doe.

In the end, I don't know I saved any $$ over just buying a clean model 70 or 700, but I did acquire a true custom rifle - Not fancy, but built to my minds eye as the perfect north woods big game rifle. 50 years later, it kinda still is...

Larry

That was a pricey Mauser. In 1970, a small gun shop in Havelock, NC was selling 98 mausers (8MM), 95 Mausers (7MM) and Swiss Schmidt-Rubens (7.5MM) for $20.00. He had several rack of each. I bought a 7.5MM Schmidt-Ruben as the straight pull action fascinated me. Wish I had bought several of each and had been smart enough to hang onto them.

 

[Fishinfool]

AJ - Yep, $65.00 was a lot back then. I had done some studying up on Mausers and liked the fact that the 1909 Argentine is 98 based, pre-war (1st.) quality, and I believe the only military Mauser variant with a sporting rifle type hinged floorplate. Mine is all matching numbers. I have read the 1909's were preferred by a lot of gunsmiths doing custom jobs back in the day. These days, an unmodified original numbers matching version in "the white", packed in grease are pushing a grand.

Larry

 

[CALREB]

When I was a kid my dad gave us each a rifle to deer hunt with. oldest got a 7.7 arisaka, he brought home from the Philippines. Middle bro got a model 70 30-06 bought in Alaska in 1955, (my birthplace Adak and date) and I got a 7.57 Mauser that he had sporterized in Japan. It had wolves chasing deer or stags with MT Fuji in the background, 18" of the barrel engraved etc. Well my middle bro kind of went astray and I ended up losing that rifle, supposedly stolen , when I was in high school, stuff happens. I still look for it online and at gun auction sites. I did however end up with the model 70, 06 because an uncle had borrowed it longtime.
So lost one sporterized military rifle. If you ever see it please let me know.

Fast forward 25 years or so and my wife inherited some guns and optics from an elderly cousin with no children. Her being a good girl said, hey here is a rifle for you, its old and I don't know what it is. I said thank you honey and yes I would love to have it.

1903 NRA sporter, great shape, awesome shooter, kicks like a mule, so I threw a pad over the buttplate. It was from the end of production, has the scope mounts with it, no scope, plug screws installed. Its serial number is only 51 lower than the photo in the "Brophy" book. I put a cover over the front sight because it kept tearing up cases. Records show was purchased from DCM in 1932, which matches the barrel date.

 

[walnutred]

You're making me feel old. My first sporterized military rifle was an 1853 Enfield. No, I'm not kidding, which I had a picture of it.

 

[SS336]

My only sporterized military rifle if my 1898 .30-40 Krag.
A friend gave to me in rough shape and I added an ebony fore end tip and grip cap reshaped the stock some, added a rubber butt pad and found a NOS Redfield 102 receiver sight for it. Filled some holes and had it reblued. It was a fun project and it shoots very well. Have hunted with it but never got lucky….yet.