lever action pistol caliber rifles

[Texas Star]

I've wondered about accuracy with the .44 Magnums, which have or had a very long twist, about one turn in 38"!

The late Bob Wallack wrote in a book on deer rifles that he was a consultant to Marlin and had S&W rifle a Marlin barrel in .44 at the more usual twist of 1-20 or so. But an uninterested foreman at Marlin never fitted it to a test rifle and lost the barrel.

Wallack was hoping that the faster twist would produce better accuracy.

 

[L Pete]

I have a Marlin 1894 SS, in .44 mag. It's a late production rifle made in 2009, but was not made by Remington. This rifle will consistantly group under 2 inches at 100 yds. with WWB 240gr. SPs. This is with open sights.

The rifles made at Illion, NY are not as finely finished as the ones made in Conn., and there have been numerous reports of various problems.

For more info, go to Marlinowners forum, and there is plenty of insight in Marlin firearms that might be useful to you, if you're interested in the Marlins.

As for Rossi, I have one that is the biggest piece of junk that I've ever owned. One of these days, I'm going to hacksaw it is several pieces and use it for trot line weights. I, also, had a Winchester .357 that was a joy, and regret trading it.

 

[Desert Dog]

I've wondered about accuracy with the .44 Magnums, which have or had a very long twist, about one turn in 38"!

The late Bob Wallack wrote in a book on deer rifles that he was a consultant to Marlin and had S&W rifle a Marlin barrel in .44 at the more usual twist of 1-20 or so. But an uninterested foreman at Marlin never fitted it to a test rifle and lost the barrel.

Wallack was hoping that the faster twist would produce better accuracy.

The slower rate of twist only really begins to become a problem when you start using 300gr. plus bullets. It really is more of an issue of length than weight. Over 300gr. and the bullets end up too long for the 1-38 rifling to stabilize sufficiently. The 300gr. Hornady XTC are not as long as many hard cast bullets and work quite well in my 1894P.

Much of the twist rate concerns come from those wishing to push the performance envelope of the round. I prefer to use a rifle cartridge for distances much over 100 yards. I don't view the 44Mag as a great long range hunting round. For my purposes, the lever action can't really replace a serious bolt action for long distance shooting.

The owner of Buffalo Bore made a big deal about the twist rate in something of a rant he posted to his site:

"Marlin (for an unknown, not well thought out reason) is using a very slow rate of twist (1/38 inches) on their 1894 chambered in 44 mag. Because of this slow rate of twist, the heaviest bullet that the factory Marlin will stabilize is about 270grs. Other firearm makers that chamber for the 44 mag all use a much faster rate of twist so that their guns will stabilize and therefore accurately shoot bullets over 300grs. Many folks today want their 44 magnums to be able to utilize the heavy 300gr. and heavier bullets - Marlin has not figured this out. If you want decent accuracy out of our new +p+ load in a Marlin, it will need to be re-barreled with a twist rate of roughly 1/20 inch. I have Dave Clay re-barrel all my Marlin 1894's with a faster twist barrel. A 44 magnum that wont accurately shoot 300gr. or heavier bullets is useless to me."

 

[user]

I have heard really bad things about what Remington did to Marlin after the takeover, with the result that any Marlin lever-action made after that is suspect. No personal experience with that, myself.

I've got a couple from before that event, 1894's in .44 and .357, both stainless. They won't feed as smoothly as a bolt-action, and the screws have to be retightened frequently (even with blue loc-tite on the threads). And, being an old geezer with failing eyesight, I've got 'scopes on 'em both.

But they're accurate as all-get-out, fun to shoot, and very effective at turning Bambi into food. (Well, the .357 is, anyway, I think the .44 would turn Bambi into mincemeat. A 240 grain sjhp will put a hole through the six sheets of steel, formerly a refrigerator, across my side-yard, 150 yards away that goes in with a hole about a half-inch in diameter and comes out of a four-inch hole on the other side.)

 

[OldArcher]

Interoperability/commonality of ammo for revolver and rifle...

Hi guskody!

I just purchased my sixth Governor, and my second Henry Big Boy, in .45 Colt. The Henry is a finely made lever action rifle that is the equal, or better, of Marlin, Winchester, or Remington... I've always tried to have lever action rifles with accompanying revolvers, as this is a force multiplier, WHEN TSHTF...

Like my Governors, I use Hornady 225gr FTX in .45 Colt as a primary load. Accuracy is superb out of the Big Boy, as well as being a great load in the Governors. Being able to have commonality of ammo keeps things simple...

OA, out...

 

[growr]

For me it is my Uberti replica of an 1873 Winchester in 44-40..use it in SASS matches all the time....particularily effective on any knock down targets. Even marginal hits takes them over with no problems. Add a brace of 44-40 Single Action Armies and away we go!!

Randy

 

[guskody]

how many Governors does it take to...?

OldArcher,

I am fascinated, perhaps dumbfounded, and for sure jealous...
6 Governors?

One for every car? One for every room in the house? One for every house?

How many moonclips do you have? 300?

Glad to know the official recommended ratio of Governors to Henry Big Boys is 3:1.

Thanks for the post OA.

 

[Muley Gil]

Don't forget the .32-20 cartridge in revolvers and leverguns.

 

[1mathom1]

My pair in .41 mag. Both fun to shoot.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I had an 1892 Win., in 44 mag. and with the "crescent butt plate" it was torture to shoot, especially from the rest. I had an 1895 cowboy in 45-70 Govt. and I was surprised at how close the recoil was in the 44 mag. and by the way-quality has slipped since Marlin was bought by you know who, and older guns are selling at a premium. For all around applications, including defense and hunting, I used a Win model 94ae in 357 mag as a basis. I put a Bushnell trophy red dot on it, forward of the receiver in a "scout rifle" configuration. I load 158gr HCLRNFP bullets over Unique, and it shoots very clean, as long as I load for 12-1300 fps. Remember, that 16 inch barrel typically increases velocity by 30-40%, so I am able to load them the same as I do for revolvers and it works very well. Bullets come from midatlanticbullets.com- the owner there has the same gun, and recommended this loading. It is a joy to shoot for anyone, and packs a punch, but not in your shoulder!

 

[Cocked & Locked]

The afore mentioned .44 Trapper (shown on the bottom) in good company.... a Marlin Maruader in .35 Remington.

Hey Drew...looks like we've got the same likin' for the little 16" Winchester .44 magnum rifle.

I think mine is/was known as the "Wrangler" since it has the large loop lever in addition to the saddle ring. It pulls guard duty hanging over the front door.

I've got a Williams receiver sight (with "twilight" aperture) on mine, Marble slot blank and a Lyman gold bead front sight. I couldn't bring myself to drill the butt stock for a sling swivel so I rigged up the mess hanging out from under the butt plate.

 

[Engine49guy]

My favorite pair is my 629-2 Mountain gun and Ruger 44 "Deerslayer" Carbine,

Ruger also made a 44 mag carbine with a rotating bolt like the Mini 14
and called it the "Deerfield carbine".

If you like your M1 Carbine Ruger made a SA revolver in 30 Carbine ,
They pop up for sale used in the $350 range from time to time.

 

[TAROMAN]

Interesting discussion. Brings up a few thoughts..
No mention of shooting lead boolits through these various carbines.
At one time Marlins had "micro-groove" rifling that wasn't the best for lead.
I had, back in the day, a Browning (Miroku) Model 92 in 44 magnum that had the same issue.
Got an e-mail today from J&G that they have a special on the Winchester 357 carbine.
Also, wonder if any of these would feed .38 Short Colt rounds.
That would sort of be like a 22 Short on steroids.
Who knows how many of those would fit into the magazine?

 

[Nemo288]

Having chosen the 44 as "my" big bore caliber many moons ago,
I discovered the joys of the matching lever gun soon there-after.
I first got an old Winchester 94 made in the bad days of the late
60's and later a better one and finally a trapper. The 94 action
is a little long for the 44 Magnum and would be perfect for the
445 Supermag (but that's another project).
I then acquired a friend's Browning B-92 in 44 Mag. Now that's
the perfect action for pistol rounds as it was originally designed as such.
I would love to have one of the Rossi 92's in a 16" stainless.

I really don't have much use for either of those first 2 1894's
so PM me if you wish to talk about them.

Here is the trapper 94 and the B-92: (not to the same scale)

---
Nemo

 

[Erich]

I just can't bring myself to pull up Photobucket and dig out my chrono data to answer this question again right now, but if you run a search you'll find my responses in about five similar threads.

 

[Nemo288]

I just can't bring myself to pull up Photobucket and dig out my chrono data to answer this question again right now, but if you run a search you'll find my responses in about five similar threads.

Not sure what the original question was but I have some old notes:

The load:
24gr W296, 240gr Sierra JHC, Fed nickel 44 Mag, WLP

6" 629 1347 fps
7.5" Redhawk 1463 fps
16" 94 AE 1697 fps
20" 94 AE 1740 fps
20" B92 1775 fps


---
Nemo

 

[Last of the Mohicans]

I have a Puma in .454 Casull and a 16" Rossi "trapper" in .44Mag. Both are '92 clones and are both accurate and a blast to shoot.

 

[Marine24]

I have a Puma in .454 Casull and a 16" Rossi "trapper" in .44Mag. Both are '92 clones and are both accurate and a blast to shoot.

+1 on the Puma or Rossi 454 Casull. I elected to go this route to pair with my Alaskan in the same caliber, but works equally as well with my Mountain Gun in 45 Colt, although I don't shoot the same heavy 45 Colt loads out of it.

 

[SAWMAN]

One of the most fun lever guns I've ever handled was an 1860 henry in 45 Colt. Absolutely love that gun!


1860 Henry Lever Action .45LC(24-1/4") Octagonal Tapered Blue Barrel, Brass Frame/Butt Plate, Model 288

 

[vipermd]

OA
"I just purchased my sixth Governor" ! one is good six is better!