License Check

[PMRet]

Driving into town a couple days ago, I went through a driver's license checkpoint manned by two of our NC State Troopers. The young trooper who approached my vehicle looked to be in his early 20's. It went like this:

HIM: Good morning sir, may I see your license?

ME: (with both hands on the wheel) Yes, but first let me tell you that I
have a concealed carry permit, and my gun is to my right,
beside the console. My license is in my right hip pocket.

HIM: OK, I appreciate you telling me, and I appreciate you carrying. You
might save my life someday.

ME: You never can tell.

HIM: (after checking my license) Have a good day, sir.

ME: Thanks, you too.

Not the first time I've been thanked by a LEO for carrying...

 

[les.b]

Good job!! I thank you for carrying too!! I might be driving through NC one day and you might save my life too.

Best Regards, Les

 

[dben002]

Same happened.to me in Kernersville NC last fall.

After informing him of the weapon on my person he asked "Is it loaded".
I said yes..he said "good never carry an empty weapon"....

We laughed and he checked my DL and tag and said stay safe and i was on my way..

Has happened twice and both times were without any problem at all.

 

[bigwheelzip]

I handled my only LEO interaction since CC'ing the same as you. These were the Tribal Police in Cherokee, NC, and they were equally polite.

Of course, and old woman driving with a handicapped placard hanging from the rearview mirror probably doesn't fit the profile that sets off alarm bells.

 

[les.b]

I handled my only LEO interaction since CC'ing the same as you. These were the Tribal Police in Cherokee, NC, and they were equally polite.

Of course, and old woman driving with a handicapped placard hanging from the rearview mirror probably doesn't fit the profile that sets off alarm bells.

I looked all over, but don't see the handicapped placard!!

(Just kidding!!! Couldn't help it!! Remembered this picture from the bicycle thread!!)

Best Regards, Les

 

[coachray]

Glad to hear the above stories. If I'm ever stopped by an officer I hope for the same outcome.

 

[RSanch111]

"Driver license" checkpoints? They're illegal as far as I know. Are you sure it wasn't a DUI checkpoint?

Never mind, I guess maybe they are legal....but they shouldn't be....

 

[bigwheelzip]

Remembered this picture from the bicycle thread!!

Oh no, my checkered past as a biker chick comes back to haunt me!

 

[Kodiakco]

"Driver license" checkpoints? They're illegal as far as I know. Are you sure it wasn't a DUI checkpoint?

Never mind, I guess maybe they are legal....but they shouldn't be....

Yep, in NC they're "legal." All my interactions with Leo in NC have been equally pleasent.

...North Carolina takes this a step further and allows random checkpoints to detect violations of any motor vehicle law as long as the specific purpose of the roadblock is to detect traffic violations. They cannot be used for general crime control, but can be used to detect unobservable motor vehicle violations such as unlicensed or suspended drivers and vehicle registration issues. No warrant is required, all they need is a written policy for stopping and questioning drivers in a set pattern that removes the discretion of individual officers. Typically the policy will say stop every vehicle and have a contingency that says something like stop every 10th vehicle if traffic begins to back up. In theory, it should eliminate an officer's ability to single out people based on sex, race, ethnicity, social status etc. The policy does not have to be on-hand and they can adopt the policy of another agency, It's a pretty loose standard...

Can the police use random checkpoints in North Carolina? | MINICK LAW

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[hoc9sw]

Checkpoints are legal in all the states I've lived in as long as they stop and at least do a cursory check on every vehicle.

My last "offense" (yes, I did something not illegal in my home state, but illegal where I live now) went much the same. Discussion turned form my offense to the range bags in the back, and getting stuff out for show and tell. I got a verbal warning, but the officer stops at the same coffee shop on Saturday, so he'll remember me if I trangress again.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Good job!! I thank you for carrying too!! I might be driving through NC one day and you might save my life too.

Best Regards, Les

On the way to HERE I would hope!

 

[Rastoff]

"Driver license" checkpoints? They're illegal as far as I know. Are you sure it wasn't a DUI checkpoint?

Correct, not legal. Not even for DUI checks.

Checkpoints are legal in all the states I've lived in as long as they stop and at least do a cursory check on every vehicle.

Nope, not even if they do it for every vehicle "just to make it fair".

Before everyone jumps on me with numerous "case law" decisions, I know that courts have ruled them legal. Even so, it is a clear violation of the 4th amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

This amendment is as simple as the second and has been just as trampled on. It is clear that without probable cause, they can't search you, for ANYTHING.

This kind of search is exactly why the 4th was included in the bill of rights. Over the years the courts have allowed this kind of thing because it's popular with the terrified public. Random searches are illegal and don't prevent any crime.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now.

You handled it well and so did the police officer. I wish everyone could be that reasonable.

 

[dben002]

Correct, not legal. Not even for DUI checks.

Nope, not even if they do it for every vehicle "just to make it fair".

Before everyone jumps on me with numerous "case law" decisions, I know that courts have ruled them legal. Even so, it is a clear violation of the 4th amendment:
This amendment is as simple as the second and has been just as trampled on. It is clear that without probable cause, they can't search you, for ANYTHING.

This kind of search is exactly why the 4th was included in the bill of rights. Over the years the courts have allowed this kind of thing because it's popular with the terrified public. Random searches are illegal and don't prevent any crime.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now.

You handled it well and so did the police officer. I wish everyone could be that reasonable.

Rastoff....if i show this post to the Kernersville PD will you post my bail?...lol

 

[cgt4570]

While I would never antagonize or provoke any LEO, I would never volunteer any info that wasn't asked at a checkpoint that violates the Constitution!

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

While I would never antagonize or provoke any LEO, I would never volunteer any info that wasn't asked at a checkpoint that violates the Constitution!

Understandable, but you might want to take into consideration the fact that NC law requires that you furnish that specific information whether you are asked or not.

 

[hostler]

Correct, not legal. Not even for DUI checks.

Nope, not even if they do it for every vehicle "just to make it fair".

Before everyone jumps on me with numerous "case law" decisions, I know that courts have ruled them legal. Even so, it is a clear violation of the 4th amendment:
This amendment is as simple as the second and has been just as trampled on. It is clear that without probable cause, they can't search you, for ANYTHING.

This kind of search is exactly why the 4th was included in the bill of rights. Over the years the courts have allowed this kind of thing because it's popular with the terrified public. Random searches are illegal and don't prevent any crime.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now.

You handled it well and so did the police officer. I wish everyone could be that reasonable.

For what it's worth, the supreme court has ruled DUI check points to be unconstitutional but acceptable for the "common good", which makes them legal in most states unless that state doesn't feel that way.
I've never heard of a state that conducts random DL checkpoints.

 

[hostler]

Understandable, but you might want to take into consideration the fact that NC law requires that you furnish that specific information whether you are asked or not.

NC isn't a "must inform" state, is it?

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

NC isn't a "must inform" state, is it?

Yes, it is.

 

[RSanch111]

Yep, in NC they're "legal." All my interactions with Leo in NC have been equally pleasent.


Can the police use random checkpoints in North Carolina? | MINICK LAW

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The Sitz case in Michigan went to the Supreme Court. As I recall, the rationale was that the reason DUI checkpoints were legal was because society's right to be free from drunk drivers outweighed the right of drivers to be free from the relatively minor inconvenience of the stop. As long as the stops weren't arbitrary or random. They had to be every car or every tenth car, etc. There are no states where "random" stops are constitutional.

When it comes to driver license checkpoints, I think the case is Brown V. Texas. In that case a guy was stopped and contraband was found in plain view. Trouble was, they never contested the constitutionality of the initial stop. If that made it to the US Supreme Court, ie. the license checkpoint aspect, I think the court would have said "nope".

We'll have to wait for someone to get busted for something major that's worth appealing and appealing for ten years or so to get a high court ruling on that one. But based on their rational for DUI checkpoints, I'd say they'd rule against driver license checkpoints. If it ever gets to that point...I don't think society's right to be free from unlicensed or suspended drivers outweighs the inconvenience of the stop.

The ironic thing about Sitz was that in Michigan, the appealed it all the way to the supreme court, saying that DUI checkpoints should be legal. After the high court ruled in FAVOR of Michigan, Michigan changed it's mind and said: "Nope, they're not legal." So the state that appealed the case and made it "legal" in the rest of the land, changed course and said: "Yeah....but not here after all....."

 

[RSanch111]

PS: Rastoff, cops don't need probable cause to search your car for weapons, they only need "reasonable suspicion". Anything they find after that is fair game. Also, in the vast majority of circumstances with a car, cops don't need "probable cause plus exigent circumstances". The "car" part is presumed, in most cases, to equal "exigent circumstances". So probable cause is enough...Unless they have the lower standard of "reasonable suspicion" for weapons.

In most other cases, cops need either a warrant or probable cause PLUS exigent circumstances for a search to be valid. When they have a warrant, the search is presumed to be valid. When they DON'T have a warrant, the search is presumed to be INvalid and the cops have to show that they had an accepted exception to the search warrant rule. Google; Exceptions to the search warrant rule and exclusionary rule.