Lightest Safe 38-SPCL. Charge?

[snubbiefan]

Just for plinking, saving powder and training purposes....what would be the "safest" 38-special load under a 110-grain cast LSWC using Bullseye and Red Dot fired from a snub-nose? I have gone down to as far as 1.8 grains of Bullseye and 2 grains of Red Dot with no ill-effects I can see. I understand that in some calibers (particularly rifle calibers), it's just as dangerous to down load one to a point all the powder explodes inside the case.

With these light loads, recoil is nill from an all-steel revolver and muzzle blast is about like a 22LR. Perfect for the beginning shooter and punches holes very well out to 25-30 feet.....and more I suppose.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Two things (other than double charges or squibs) make me nervous about reloading. (1) loading for the absolute lightest loads and (2) loading for the absolute highest.

 

[rsrocket1]

Quite frankly, a double charge of 2g Red Dot or Bullseye won't even be a full pressure round either so that won't be a problem. You are good to go with those charges although I think you'll find the Red Dot a little cleaner, but both are well under the pressures where they like to burn cleanly. So long as you don't get a stuck bullet you are good to go. You should be able to feel the difference between a shot and a stuck bullet. The stuck bullet may be as loud, but won't have the recoil of a shot bullet. Just keep an eye on the target and make sure you see a new hole on each shot.

 

[snubbiefan]

I never load for anything higher than the commercial I purchase off-the-shelf ....that is high enough for me and those are my carry-loads and not for playing. You will never find me going close to your #2.

I watched my neighbor shoot some 20-30 rounds out the end of a 686 4-inch with only a primer and no powder. How did he leave-out the powder..... ....stupidity or a serious mistake is extremely suspect. He decided to just shoot them out as opposed to pulling the bullets. Every one fired and the slug departed the muzzle. Not a squib in the bunch.

rs....for sure....need to make sure the slug leaves the barrel and I am quite surprised at how these light slugs shoot over a couple of grains of RD.

 

[OKFC05]

stupidity or a serious mistake is extremely suspect. He decided to just shoot them out as opposed to pulling the bullets.

In my book, that qualifies all by itself, even if he got away with it ......that time.

We had one fellow who often bragged about how light he could make his loads. He changed bullets and stuck two, one right after the other.

 

[snubbiefan]

This particular guy also takes the transfer bars out of his Smiths to lighten the TP and recently shot a hole as big as a bowling ball in the middle of his living room floor while lowering the hammer on a loaded 1911.

I don't hang around him much when he has a gun in his hand.

 

[OKFC05]

I don't hang around him much when he has a gun in his hand.

We have one fellow here in OK we call the "Coffee table killer"

 

[4barrel]

Just for plinking, saving powder and training purposes....what would be the "safest" 38-special load under a 110-grain cast LSWC using Bullseye and Red Dot fired from a snub-nose? I have gone down to as far as 1.8 grains of Bullseye and 2 grains of Red Dot with no ill-effects I can see. I understand that in some calibers (particularly rifle calibers), it's just as dangerous to down load one to a point all the powder explodes inside the case.

With these light loads, recoil is nill from an all-steel revolver and muzzle blast is about like a 22LR. Perfect for the beginning shooter and punches holes very well out to 25-30 feet.....and more I suppose.

WHAT THE BOOKS SAY.

 

[Rule3]

Powder is cheap compared to the bullets and primers. Lyman lists a min 2.8 grs of BE for the 120 gr lead bullet. They do not have a 110. They list 3.6 min for a 105 grain. You are losing performance/accuracy and not really saving a great deal. They have min charges for a reason.

As to your friend taking the TB out only makes the gun unsafe and does little to nothing for trigger pull. It may let the revolver ignite the primer easier, but is a dumb thing to do.
He is better off to change the rebound spring and hammer spring.

JMHO, I am sure someone will come along and tell me I am wrong.

 

[gwpercle]

The danger in down/light loading is the bullet may not have enough force to exit the barrel. If another round is fired...ruined barrel or something bad that we don't want to happen...hence starting loads.
My old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (3rd edition) does not have 110 gr cast listed but for the 120 gr. the starting loads are:
Bullseye.....2.8 grains
Red Dot.....3.3 grains
Don't go any lower. When I started loading I loaded some light ones, below minimum, and most shot OK except for some reason, one didn't make it out the end of the barrel...I don't know why , but I stopped and looked at the gun. Opened it and No light was coming through the barrel...God was looking after me that day and I learned why the starting loads are in the books. Be careful with light loads.

Gary

 

[PeteT]

When teaching my wife to shoot my M-36, I experimented with the 95 grain cast bullet intended for a 9x18 Makarov, sized to .358". 1.5 grains of Red Dot produced a load with almost no recoil or muzzle blast that was pretty accurate and consistent at ten yards. Printed somewhat low was the only real problem. Didn't encounter any squibs or hung bullets. 2.0 grains of Red Dot worked fine as well.

I've found that this down-sized bullet has other applications as well. Sized appropriately, it's my "go-to" bullet in .38 S&W (4.0 grains of Unique gives 1020 FPS out of a 5" K-Frame), and to mess with people's minds, two stacked in a .38 Special case using 195 grain cast data from Lyman shoots supprisingly well, with 3"-4" dispersion at 20 yards.

PeteT.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have tried to keep my lead loads to a minimum of 540 fps and my Jacket bullets at a minimum of 770 fps in my 38 specials.
Minimum snub nose load was at 753 fps with a very slow powder and lowest vel with RedDot was 674 fps with a load lower than Alliants minimum load which I brought up to 840 fps with 4.8 grains of powder for the Jacket bullet.

2.0 grains of red with lead might work for you but I would make sure you see dirt fly with every shot, to be on the safe side. Good luck.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO if you want the felt recoil of a 22LR, shoot a 22LR and keep the .38 Specials up to minimum powder charges. You are flirting with a mishap and IMO it's not if, but when it will happen.

 

[snubbiefan]

All this is good stuff folks and I wasn't born yesterday. Have been reloading for quite some time, but rather casually in just a couple of calibers. I know the dangers of down-loading and that's why I wanted some 2nd. and 3rd. opinions. I'd never try this in a long-barrel gun.

I think the 38-special makes a great "getting acquainted" gun for the new shooters in my family. Why not a 22....good question. Most small (J-Frame style) 22 revolvers have atrocious trigger-pulls. I have tamed a 317 for my wife with some spring changes, but the J-Frame center fire triggers are so much better right out of the box and the all steel guns lessen the felt recoil as well. As long as we can still get primers and powder and I cast my own slugs....I can shoot 38-special cheaper than I can 22LR....during these panic periods.

 

[Cdog]

I'm no fan of Trail Boss, but it's likely what I'd choose to do what you want.

It may be more me than my revolvers, but once I get below a certain velocity my accuracy seems to suffer.

 

[stu1ritter]

Just for plinking, saving powder and training purposes....what would be the "safest" 38-special load under a 110-grain cast LSWC using Bullseye and Red Dot fired from a snub-nose? I have gone down to as far as 1.8 grains of Bullseye and 2 grains of Red Dot with no ill-effects I can see. I understand that in some calibers (particularly rifle calibers), it's just as dangerous to down load one to a point all the powder explodes inside the case.

With these light loads, recoil is nill from an all-steel revolver and muzzle blast is about like a 22LR. Perfect for the beginning shooter and punches holes very well out to 25-30 feet.....and more I suppose.

I also used a reduced 1.7 Bullseye with 110 DEWC in my 37 airweight to teach women who have never held a handgun before how to shoot. I teach them on the .22LR and then starting with this light load, I bring them up into the 2.8 - 3 gr. range, and brought up slowly they become very good at dealing with the recoil. I use the 37 so the recoil is magnified. When they transition to a 1911 they keep it in the black. When loading these lighter loads I always use the RCBS Powder Cop in line to check for squib or double loads. Always check it's adjustment also. The NRA was once asked, many years ago, what was the minimum Bullseye powder load for a .38 Special. I believe they took it down to .5 gr. at which point the bullet started sticking in the 4 or 5" barrel they used for testing.

Stu

 

[shawn mccarver]

Just for plinking, saving powder and training purposes....what would be the "safest" 38-special load under a 110-grain cast LSWC using Bullseye and Red Dot fired from a snub-nose? I have gone down to as far as 1.8 grains of Bullseye and 2 grains of Red Dot with no ill-effects I can see. I understand that in some calibers (particularly rifle calibers), it's just as dangerous to down load one to a point all the powder explodes inside the case.

With these light loads, recoil is nill from an all-steel revolver and muzzle blast is about like a 22LR. Perfect for the beginning shooter and punches holes very well out to 25-30 feet.....and more I suppose.

I hate to bring up "issues," but I seem to recall issues with "detonations" with extremely light charges of Bullseye. Any of you youngsters ever hear of those?

 

[stu1ritter]

Thanks, like being called a 72 year old youngster. Drat that feels good. As I mentioned, the NRA did the test and you can probably find it on line, somewhere, and there was no detonation down to the .5 gr. level.
Stu

 

[Rule3]

All this is good stuff folks and I wasn't born yesterday. Have been reloading for quite some time, but rather casually in just a couple of calibers. I know the dangers of down-loading and that's why I wanted some 2nd. and 3rd. opinions. I'd never try this in a long-barrel gun.

I think the 38-special makes a great "getting acquainted" gun for the new shooters in my family. .

You ask what the "safest" powder charge was. I think most agree it would be the minimum recommended by the powder company or tested in a manual. So kick it up a notch and you will still have a light load, that is safe and probably be more accurate. Say you have some of those ultra light loads and pick up a 4" gun???

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

I hate to bring up "issues," but I seem to recall issues with "detonations" with extremely light charges of Bullseye. Any of you youngsters ever hear of those?

Yes, and I thinks its horse malarky. No lab has ever been able to replicate it and if you think about it x amount of powder can only give off x amount of energy which we already know is barely pooting the bullet out of a barrel. So unless a law of physics is being broken and we are creating energy....