load data; using JHP instead of copper plated bullets

[Sharpshooter82]

.357 180gr using VN105 the load data states to use HP Copper Plated, LOS bullet. Would it be safe to use a hornady XTP bullet (jacketed ) instead ?

 

[Sevens]

If you use proper load development (don’t start at MAX but rather work towards it) then yea, you’re fine.

Perhaps I’m simply arguing terms, but I believe there is value in this discussion. When you read published load data, they are not “telling you to use” anything. Rather, they are reporting what they did and showing the results.

They also don’t expect you to use the same length barrel, the same ambient temperature or the same elevation above sea level… even though a lot of published data will report these things.

They add these things because the information is relevant, not because you MUST follow it.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Jacketed bullets have somewhat more drag going down the barrel than do copper plated bullets. Both have somewhat more drag going down the barrel than do lead bullets. More drag means more pressure. If your load is near the top end of the envelope it could cause trouble. Start low, work up carefully.

 

[Sharpshooter82]

Jacketed bullets have somewhat more drag going down the barrel than do copper plated bullets. Both have somewhat more drag going down the barrel than do lead bullets. More drag means more pressure. If your load is near the top end of the envelope it could cause trouble. Start low, work up carefully.

so i started with starting load of 9.3gr with the XTP bullet, extraction of very good no signs of over pressure ie primers etc. velocity was on the low side. Increased the load to 9.6gr (max load is published at 10.9gr) the 9.6gr again no signs of over pressure, extraction was very easy , velocity was good and what i expected. So this should be safe load ?

 

[Rick H.]

Beg, buy, borrow or steal a chronograph! You will know right at the get-go where your loads are at. Almost all serious reloaders have one. If not they are kidding themselves and taking a big risk.

Rick H.

P.S. Yeah I'm sure some will say I've been reloading for 75 years and never needed a chronograph. All that means is they have been lucky for 75 years.

 

[M1A4ME]

I seldom see the best accuracy at the max load. Usually a 100 to 150 fps below the max. load velocity. This may be more common in rifles than pistols but I do know it's true for several powders/bullets/pistols I've worked up loads for in the last 4 or 5 years.

 

[rwsmith]

If you load...

Beg, buy, borrow or steal a chronograph! You will know right at the get-go where your loads are at. Almost all serious reloaders have one. If not they are kidding themselves and taking a big risk.

Rick H.

P.S. Yeah I'm sure some will say I've been reloading for 75 years and never needed a chronograph. All that means is they have been lucky for 75 years.

...exactly what the components are in the book you can get by with that. I could get by with my Lee scoop that came with my old Lee Loader and a can of Bullseye, if .38 Special 148 gr WCs was all I ever loaded. But if you want to do anything different, you'll need a chronograph. I got big into experimentation, using very light and heavy for caliber bullets and some reduced loadings from really old sources. Without a chrony, I wouldn't know what I was getting.

 

[sniper]

In the absence of specific information, Berry's bullets (copper plated) info says to use lead load data for their bullets. As mentioned, start low and work up. IMNHO, a half grain at a time is sufficient to give useful information, and is safe, unless you are reloading to the edge of insanity!
Good luck.

 

[smoothshooter]

As long as the bullet weights are the same it will not matter.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

As long as the bullet weights are the same it will not matter.

...as long as the length of the seating depth is the same (from a practical matter, "close" is usually good enough).

Pressure can be seriously affected if bullets (even those with identical weights) are seated deeper in the cases. Usually this can easily be accommodated just by loading them with a longer OAL.

Cheers!

 

[Yendor357]

THANK YOU Rick!
You’re my new best friend!

Sharp, What firearm are you shooting, and what velocity are you hoping to achieve?

If you were fueling with H110, I could be more helpful.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Beg, buy, borrow or steal a chronograph! You will know right at the get-go where your loads are at. Almost all serious reloaders have one. If not they are kidding themselves and taking a big risk.

Rick H.

P.S. Yeah I'm sure some will say I've been reloading for 75 years and never needed a chronograph. All that means is they have been lucky for 75 years.

NOT REALLY................

 

[rockquarry]

I seldom shoot anything but my own cast bullets in all handguns. My one experience with plated bullets was not good as far as accuracy so I don't use them. If you can find paper published data (good reason to have multiple manuals) that shows a similar bullet to what you want to use and that bullet has a very similar shape, bearing surface, and is seated to about the same depth (OAL), use the published data, but start low. Also, compare several manuals. Use a chronograph if you're a serious handloader. Compare your velocity figures with the book figures. Don't get wrapped up in things like SD if you're getting good accuracy.

I've found there is never a good reason to use a plated or jacketed bullet in any handgun IF you can find a cast bullet of the proper alloy for your load that fits your gun.

 

[Rick H.]

NOT REALLY................

Okay Mike, I'll bite. If your comment "NOT REALLY" means you don't really need a chronograph how do you KNOW what your reloads are actually doing without the assistance of one? When I started reloading many years ago I just went by what the books were telling me and I soon found out after buying my first chronograph that what was printed was NOT what I was getting for velocity, even using the same exact load data. In some instances it was close, but rarely was it spot on. When it was spot on it was cause for celebration. Fast forward to today and I am a lot older and have used many chronographs from sky-screens to a Garmin and everything in between. The Garmin is my chosen favorite now because of it's convenience and ease of setup.

It gives me get comfort and confidence in knowing what speeds I am getting from my reloads rather than just relying on what is printed and should be getting. I like to experiment a bit and having a chronograph tells me immediately if I am on the right track or should change course with a given experiment. My experiments normally involve different make powders or bullets and I never go off into dangerous territory. I don't make fun of anyone that claims you don't need a chronograph to check loads, but it does make me wonder why they feel that way. This is all sort of like people that claim you should never use or feel a need for a good borescope. I spent a large amount of USC on a Hawkeye borescope before the Chi-Com units showed up and I have never regretted that purchase either. My borescope and the chronograph are my most used tools these days. The information they give me I consider invaluable.

Rick H.

 

[shil]

.357 180gr using VN105 the load data states to use HP Copper Plated, LOS bullet. Would it be safe to use a hornady XTP bullet (jacketed ) instead ?

I would not substitute arbitrarily. Hornady has data for its 180 grainer in their manuals. if you don't have a chronograph or any means of pressure-testing and MUST use N105, begin a test series with the suggested start load of your data and be extremely cautious. Personally, I think maximum loads, for my purpose, are useless. I don't own a chronograph and probably never will so I have no idea how maximum loads perform in my guns.