Loading 9mm
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kbm6893
Member
I load 124 grain plated fmj from Xtreme Bullets using 4.2 grains HP38. Meters like sand and is dead on every time. That's a mid level load. Data says 3.9 to 4.4 grains.
I have a 986.
The coated bullet loads that that shoot fine in my four other 9mm guns lead and are not accurate in the 986.
The problem is that the chamber throats on my 986 are not true 9mm but are .357+. 9mm is .355.
I have not slugged the barrel, but I would bet it is .357 not .355. Smith & Wesson took the cheap way out.
If I load 358 coated bullets for the 986, accuracy improves and leading disappears.
This adds some loading complexity in seating the bullet without shaving lead.
The chamber throats are easy to check. Just drop a .355 or .356 bullet in the chamber throat and see if it falls through. If it does, you need the larger bullet. The chamber throats on my 986 and 686 seem identical.
I read of similar issues with the 929.
The coated bullet loads that that shoot fine in my four other 9mm guns lead and are not accurate in the 986.
The problem is that the chamber throats on my 986 are not true 9mm but are .357+. 9mm is .355.
I have not slugged the barrel, but I would bet it is .357 not .355. Smith & Wesson took the cheap way out.
If I load 358 coated bullets for the 986, accuracy improves and leading disappears.
This adds some loading complexity in seating the bullet without shaving lead.
The chamber throats are easy to check. Just drop a .355 or .356 bullet in the chamber throat and see if it falls through. If it does, you need the larger bullet. The chamber throats on my 986 and 686 seem identical.
I read of similar issues with the 929.
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If you need to check your barrel dia.
Look around.
Some coated 9mm bullet makers will send you a sample three pack of 150 bullets.......
.356, .357 and .358 dia, 125gr bullets (example) for you to test in your weapon, before making a 500 count deal. (Eggleston)
Good luck.
Look around.
Some coated 9mm bullet makers will send you a sample three pack of 150 bullets.......
.356, .357 and .358 dia, 125gr bullets (example) for you to test in your weapon, before making a 500 count deal. (Eggleston)
Good luck.
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Good info above so just a thought or two; I normally recommend a newer reloader (or one new to a specific cartridge) to start with a tried and true (popular) load right out their reloading manual. In case of the 9mm, I'd say a 124/125 gr FMJ with a medium pistol powder for approx 1,000 fps. After a few hundred rounds getting the hang of the 9mm (chambering, plunk test for OAL etc.) then move on to lighter or heavier bullets, faster powders and maybe cast or PCed bullets. The 9mm can be a "troublesome" round as noted above but K.I.S.S. will get you good accurate ammo every time...
FWIW, my 9mm reloading came along after 30 years of revolver and 45 ACP reloading and with my experience I didn't have a lot of problems, but there were certainly differences I had to get used to...
FWIW, my 9mm reloading came along after 30 years of revolver and 45 ACP reloading and with my experience I didn't have a lot of problems, but there were certainly differences I had to get used to...
Like you, I am just starting with 9mm. After googling and reading lots of discussions, I noticed that a number of people have suggested that separating your brass by headstamp is a good idea for 9mm, because it is a small volume high pressure case and case volume varies between brands (which will affect your pressure level). So sticking with one brand of brass will remove a variable from the equation.
austintexas
Member
The only problem I ran into was 380 brass, I used to pick up a lot of 9mm range brass. Even after cleaning and checking head stamps, twice I loaded 380 brass that slipped in. Never noticed until I picked up the brass at the range after shooting. I use a Dillon Square Deal and the overall length was the same as 9 mm. I shot it, it functioned fine but I look closer before and double check after reloading.
SWCA 892
SWCA 892
I don't use range brass for 9mm.
9mm chambers are all over the place. Some chambers are way oversize, and some guns have unsupported chambers. This makes it difficult to size the brass down far enough to get it to chamber in all guns. Generically, this is referred to as the Glock bulge.
Brass is also all over the place in terms of quality. Some is plain junk.
All my guns have standard and supported chambers. Too many range brass rounds fail the plunk test.
I buy one brass brand (Federal) and only use it in my guns. I buy factory ammo (it's cheap), mark the brass with a marker and only pick up that brass for reloading. Very few rounds fail the plunk test and I know the brass quality is good. I can also track how many times the brass has been fired.
In all my guns, other than the 986, I load 125 .356 SNS RN coated bullets over 4.1 grains of 231. This is like the load used by kbm6893.
Bayou .358 124 RN coated bullets are used for the 986 with the same load. Loading for the 986 is somewhat more complex due the increased bullet diameter.
I was hoping to use one bullet for all my guns. The .358 bullets shoot fine in all my 9 mm guns expect one. .358 bullets will occasional jam up on the feed ramp on my PM9. The round chambers it just hangs up. Rare but it happens. I never had a problem with .356 bullets (except leading and poor accuracy in my 986). Therefore, one load two bullets.
Even factory FMJ ammo in my 986 isn't that accurate. I think the factory .355 bullets bounce around in the 986.
The 986 is a reloader's gun, as I think is the 929.
9mm chambers are all over the place. Some chambers are way oversize, and some guns have unsupported chambers. This makes it difficult to size the brass down far enough to get it to chamber in all guns. Generically, this is referred to as the Glock bulge.
Brass is also all over the place in terms of quality. Some is plain junk.
All my guns have standard and supported chambers. Too many range brass rounds fail the plunk test.
I buy one brass brand (Federal) and only use it in my guns. I buy factory ammo (it's cheap), mark the brass with a marker and only pick up that brass for reloading. Very few rounds fail the plunk test and I know the brass quality is good. I can also track how many times the brass has been fired.
In all my guns, other than the 986, I load 125 .356 SNS RN coated bullets over 4.1 grains of 231. This is like the load used by kbm6893.
Bayou .358 124 RN coated bullets are used for the 986 with the same load. Loading for the 986 is somewhat more complex due the increased bullet diameter.
I was hoping to use one bullet for all my guns. The .358 bullets shoot fine in all my 9 mm guns expect one. .358 bullets will occasional jam up on the feed ramp on my PM9. The round chambers it just hangs up. Rare but it happens. I never had a problem with .356 bullets (except leading and poor accuracy in my 986). Therefore, one load two bullets.
Even factory FMJ ammo in my 986 isn't that accurate. I think the factory .355 bullets bounce around in the 986.
The 986 is a reloader's gun, as I think is the 929.
I load and shoot thousands of 9mm.
From my chrono notes:
CZ Shadow 2
Precision Delta 124 grain FMJ
4.0 of Tite Group : 1069 FPS average
4.2 of Tite Group : 1118 FPS average
Precision Delta 147 grain FMJ
3.6 grains of Tite Group : 945 FPS average
The 124 FMJ are $88.00 per 1k shipped .
From my chrono notes:
CZ Shadow 2
Precision Delta 124 grain FMJ
4.0 of Tite Group : 1069 FPS average
4.2 of Tite Group : 1118 FPS average
Precision Delta 147 grain FMJ
3.6 grains of Tite Group : 945 FPS average
The 124 FMJ are $88.00 per 1k shipped .
Moe Mentum
Member
They are 89.00 per 1k if you buy 2k
boatbum101
Member
9mm + cast = PITA . If you shoot at limited range it'll give usable loads . If you're looking to cut the X ring out of a 50yd SF target not so much . If one wants the later it requires new or 1X fired cases , jacketed bullets , mag primer & use of 4 - 5 powders that'll give that type of accuracy .
One more plug for not using range brass especially in a 986 or 929.
I had problems with some brands of brass not playing well with my moon clips. The brass was either hard to load or remove from the moon clips.
Find a brand of brass that works and stay with it. Life is too short for needless problems.
I had problems with some brands of brass not playing well with my moon clips. The brass was either hard to load or remove from the moon clips.
Find a brand of brass that works and stay with it. Life is too short for needless problems.
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mmb617
Member
Interesting. I've just switched to Titegroup for my 9mm loads and chronoed a few test rounds the other day I was using 4.3 gr with 115 gr FMJ bullets and averaged 1150 FPS which is on the hot side of things so I intend to try another batch with 4.1 gr.
Is that $88/k price recent? The best I've found on 115's is $95/k shipped now. Those same bullets were $79/k pre-panic.
Precision Delta's current prices :
115 FMJ is $83.00 per 1k shipped for 2k or more .
124 FMJ is $88.00 per 1k shipped for 2k or more .
Their prices are cheaper when you order 2k or more at a time . These are true jacketed bullets and not just plated .
Shipping included . I've found that the 124 grain seems to be a little more accurate but your results may vary .
I just finished loading my first 50 9mm yesterday... and in the mail came a RCBS case gauge I had ordered! Ran all 50 thru it, 5 stuck a little and on closer inspection had a slight bulge at the bottom that sizing didn't take out. They'll probably work, but now it won't be a surprise. I had already plunk-tested a random sampling, mostly to be sure my dimensions were workable.
I'm sold... get a case gauge!
I'm sold... get a case gauge!
max503
Member
I load 9mm cast. It's very doable but there are things to be aware of.
Think experiment.
Don't buy a boatload of bullets at first. Buy small lots till you find what works.
Then try different combinations till you find what works.
I've settled on a 95 grain flatnose bullet designed for the 380. I cast my own. I use a light charge of Unique. I also use range brass. I have to seat everything deeply or it won't chamber in my gun.
Its very satisfying when you develop a combination that works. Lately I've been reloading more 9mm than anything else. I encourage you to experiment with your project.
edit: I just realized you're loading for a revolver.
Think experiment.
Don't buy a boatload of bullets at first. Buy small lots till you find what works.
Then try different combinations till you find what works.
I've settled on a 95 grain flatnose bullet designed for the 380. I cast my own. I use a light charge of Unique. I also use range brass. I have to seat everything deeply or it won't chamber in my gun.
Its very satisfying when you develop a combination that works. Lately I've been reloading more 9mm than anything else. I encourage you to experiment with your project.
edit: I just realized you're loading for a revolver.
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I've found that jacketed hollowpoint bullets shoot accurately when driven very fast. Coated lead bullets can produce good accuracy with fairly light charges. Jacketed bullets can be taper crimped, while coated bullets shoot most accurately with little or no crimp (as long as the bullet stays in the case). I do my accuracy testing at 25 yards. If you don't plan on testing at that range or greater, just about any load, as long as it will function reliably, will work.
Ole Joe Clark
Absent Comrade
I have reloaded a few thousand 9mm, all on the Lee Classic Turret.
I don't sort hulls, except smashed or really dirty ones from the range. Take your time, load a small batch to begin with.
When you are completely though with the reloading, plunk test every round before you put them away.
Be safe and shoot straight.
Have a blessed day,
Leon
I don't sort hulls, except smashed or really dirty ones from the range. Take your time, load a small batch to begin with.
When you are completely though with the reloading, plunk test every round before you put them away.
Be safe and shoot straight.
Have a blessed day,
Leon
I have loaded thousands of 9mm, and it has presented some challenges that I haven't experienced with other calibers.
There are good comments and advice posted here.
But the OP is taking about a 929 eight shot 9mm revolver that uses moon clips and has a barrel and chamber throats of a .357 mag.
My experience with the 986 (a sibling of the 929) has been much different than loading for my 9mm pistols.
Loading for my 986 required a lot more work figuring out how to produce accurate, reliable and lead free loads. At times it was a study in frustration, much more than loading for my pistols.
But it can be done.
There are good comments and advice posted here.
But the OP is taking about a 929 eight shot 9mm revolver that uses moon clips and has a barrel and chamber throats of a .357 mag.
My experience with the 986 (a sibling of the 929) has been much different than loading for my 9mm pistols.
Loading for my 986 required a lot more work figuring out how to produce accurate, reliable and lead free loads. At times it was a study in frustration, much more than loading for my pistols.
But it can be done.
I'm sure there are others that have a lot more experience loading a 929 than I. This is some of what I learned loading for its cousin the 986. I hope this helps.
First you need to find the size of the cylinder throats. If you don't have specialty tools for this, use .356, .357 and .358 sized bullets. Nevada ED in the post above points out how to get samples. If you shoot coated bullets you want the first bullet that doesn't drop through the cylinder. In my case with the 986 .357 fell through, .358 did not. My cylinder throat is .357+. You could slug the barrel, but unless the barrel is way out of spec, the cylinder throats will control your bullet size. I read in this form and others it's probably .357. This is the reason I think the gun is inaccurate with factory 9 mm ammo. Your gun may be different. My only experience with this is my 986 and what I read.
Find some quality noon clips. I got mine from TK custom. I also use a BMT Mooner to load and unload the clips. It works great.
Get some quality brass. Be sure the brand works with the moon clips you choose. I had some problems with foreign brass. Normally I would just buy Starline brass but for some reason the brass doesn't like the titanium cylinder of the 929 and 986. Starline doesn't recommend their brass in these guns. They describe hard extraction. I don't know if this is a problem with other brands but Federal works for me both with extraction and moon clips.
A reloading complication in my case was getting a .358 bullet in a case designed for .355 without damaging the case or the bullet and still have the completed round fit in the chamber. At the time I posted a tread here to see how best do that. The link is here.
357 Diameter Coated Bullets for a 986?
After that, normal reloading practice applies. Use published loads from loading manuals or powder manufacturers, use a case gauge to test your completed rounds (mine go in OK but are a bit harder to get out than .356 bullets – but still ok) and be safe.
Good Luck!
First you need to find the size of the cylinder throats. If you don't have specialty tools for this, use .356, .357 and .358 sized bullets. Nevada ED in the post above points out how to get samples. If you shoot coated bullets you want the first bullet that doesn't drop through the cylinder. In my case with the 986 .357 fell through, .358 did not. My cylinder throat is .357+. You could slug the barrel, but unless the barrel is way out of spec, the cylinder throats will control your bullet size. I read in this form and others it's probably .357. This is the reason I think the gun is inaccurate with factory 9 mm ammo. Your gun may be different. My only experience with this is my 986 and what I read.
Find some quality noon clips. I got mine from TK custom. I also use a BMT Mooner to load and unload the clips. It works great.
Get some quality brass. Be sure the brand works with the moon clips you choose. I had some problems with foreign brass. Normally I would just buy Starline brass but for some reason the brass doesn't like the titanium cylinder of the 929 and 986. Starline doesn't recommend their brass in these guns. They describe hard extraction. I don't know if this is a problem with other brands but Federal works for me both with extraction and moon clips.
A reloading complication in my case was getting a .358 bullet in a case designed for .355 without damaging the case or the bullet and still have the completed round fit in the chamber. At the time I posted a tread here to see how best do that. The link is here.
357 Diameter Coated Bullets for a 986?
After that, normal reloading practice applies. Use published loads from loading manuals or powder manufacturers, use a case gauge to test your completed rounds (mine go in OK but are a bit harder to get out than .356 bullets – but still ok) and be safe.
Good Luck!
Moe Mentum
Member
That's $89 per 1k, but you must buy 2K to get that price, so you will have to spend $188.00 on 2k....which comes to $89 per 1K
fredj338
Member
You didnt say what press but lead bullets are best loaded with a M style expander. Things also go smoother seating & crimping in separate steps. You dont want to be shaving lead.
So true, as long as, your standards for accuracy are low and they are for most shooters. The current popular distances for "accuracy" testing seem to be 7 or 10 yards.
mmb617
Member
Thank you. I hadn't heard of Precision Delta before but now have them in my bookmarks list for reloading supply vendors.
max503
Member
Just sayin'....
Leading is easily removed by pulling a wad of Chore Boy Copper Scouring Pad through the bore and cylinders with a length of string trimmer cord. Make sure you get the Chore Boy Copper pads and not the generic Copper Coated pads.
Leading is easily removed by pulling a wad of Chore Boy Copper Scouring Pad through the bore and cylinders with a length of string trimmer cord. Make sure you get the Chore Boy Copper pads and not the generic Copper Coated pads.
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Just sayin'....
Leading is easily removed by pulling a wad of Chore Boy Copper Scouring Pad through the bore and cylinders with a length of string trimmer cord. Make sure you get the Chore Boy Copper pads and not the generic Copper Coated pads.
Chore Boy works.
But the best way to eliminate leading is not to have any leading in the first place by using bullets properly fitted to the gun.
Fitted bullets also greatly improves accuracy in my 986.
