ncbengal
Member
I am thinking that best performance for my .38+P snubbie would be a really fast burner like Tite Group as compared to 231, HS6, etc. Most of the data you see are for 6-7" bbls. Comments welcome.
Loads for 38 snubbies
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What is the weight of that +P 38 ?
Target or SD loadings?
Lead or jacket ?
Target or SD loadings?
Lead or jacket ?
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Use the same powder / load data recommended for the long -barreled guns. Bullet weight will often dictate best powder selection.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The data isn't for 6' to 7" barrels, that's just the length of the barrel they used to test the loads. Just because you are using a shorter barrel doesn't automatically require you to use a super fast powder. As for W231 being as show as HS-6, it's not even close. W231 is on the faster side of the chart from what I see.
That said, you will probably do better with a slower powder over a fast powder in the shorter barrel because the slower powders will generate more velocity without blowing past the SAAMI pressure limits. I get the best results using HS-6 and AA#5 when loading .38 Special +P ammo, even when it's shot from a 2" barrel. The additional velocity will aid in the reliable expansion of the bullet.
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
In reality it's not the powder that's burning. It's the hot gasses reigniting when additional Oxygen is available as the bullet clears the barrel.
A slow motion video with a snub nosed revolver (38spl).
HD Slow Motion - S&W Model 60 Revolver Shooting 45 degree View - YouTube
People on this forum like novalty did some pretty extensive tests with their snub nosed 38spl's. I found that power pistol gives me a true 800fps out of a 2" bbl'd snub nosed 38spl with a cast 158gr hp with a standard load (not p+).
Not to pick on you in particular, but as usual with this type of question you don't define PERFORMANCE nor give the type of bullet or purpose of the load.
Performance might be: highest speed, most accurate, most efficient, or?
If you want highest speed for a given barrel, that will always be the max load of a relatively slow powder, regardless of barrel length.
You will have to use more of the slow powder than a faster one, and you have to decide how much blast and flash you can tolerate.
The MOST ACCURATE loads are highly dependent on the individual gun, and are often obtain with less than maximum loads.
The MOST EFFICIENT loads (use the least powder for the desired speed from that barrel with a given bullet) are always obtained with the faster powders.
I am relatively intolerant of the blast and flash I get from a max load of WIN296 when I shoot a 3" barrel, so I only use that load in my 8" 686. I can duplicate the Speer Short Barrel 135gr .357 using HP38 with their bullet, and while it only gets about 90% of the speed of the WIN296 load in my 3" barrel, I am happy to NOT get the 3' ball of fire.
David R
Member
I have a couple snubbies. I get max velocity with a 125 jacketed using max loads of blue dot. This target is about 9 yards. It shoots high, so today I bought some 110 gr XTP to try.
Okay, I did not intend to make this a discussion of semantics or anything else except getting the most effective bang from a 1.8" bbl when some jerk is coming at me with a knife and his mind set on separating me or my wife from our money and wrist watch, at which time muzzle flash is really down on my list of priorities. Stopping said jerk from a distance of 3-5 ft is very high on my list, and wishing that I had chosen earlier that day to be carrying one of my .40 S&Ws or .45 ACPs. is not far behind.
I watched the slo-mo video and saw what looks like unignited powder particles coming out after the bullet. Very interesting, thanks!
And to the rest, I appreciate all your input. I have loaded 50 rds of 125 gr JHP with 4.9 gr TG (max 5.0) and will follow up with "performance." (Here we go again!) Just kidding.
I watched the slo-mo video and saw what looks like unignited powder particles coming out after the bullet. Very interesting, thanks!
And to the rest, I appreciate all your input. I have loaded 50 rds of 125 gr JHP with 4.9 gr TG (max 5.0) and will follow up with "performance." (Here we go again!) Just kidding.
Kilibreaux
Member
That's a pretty realistic load for a short-barrel revolver.
Kilibreaux
Member
You can't talk powders without talking bullet weights.
While I'm normally a fan of lighter bullets driven as fast as chemically possible, when it comes to snubs - 1.87" barrels penetration is key, so whatEVER powder one chooses, I prefer a SOLID bullet, preferably a SWC design, CAST as hard as possible. Due to the lower bore friction of lead vs copper, hard-cast 158 grain LSWC can come out amazingly fast, and any of the powders in the "fast" range should get the best speed possible. Expansion is nonexistant at snub-speeds so what you want is a full WC or SWC that is more likely to "tear" surrounding tissue than to simply push it aside or glance "away" as does round nose profiles.
While I'm normally a fan of lighter bullets driven as fast as chemically possible, when it comes to snubs - 1.87" barrels penetration is key, so whatEVER powder one chooses, I prefer a SOLID bullet, preferably a SWC design, CAST as hard as possible. Due to the lower bore friction of lead vs copper, hard-cast 158 grain LSWC can come out amazingly fast, and any of the powders in the "fast" range should get the best speed possible. Expansion is nonexistant at snub-speeds so what you want is a full WC or SWC that is more likely to "tear" surrounding tissue than to simply push it aside or glance "away" as does round nose profiles.
To the OP; there's nothing wrong with your choice of bullet and powder.
Realistically if you stick to the published data for +P loads any of the
faster powders will serve about as well as another for use in the short
barrels.
Realistically if you stick to the published data for +P loads any of the
faster powders will serve about as well as another for use in the short
barrels.
David R
Member
I tried going hotter with Unique. I found some load data in an OLD speer manual. Those folks were brave back then. As I went up in charge, chronograph each one, all I could notice was a bigger fire ball and not much more velocity. I quit before i got to max. It was not even a +P load.
Pushing the envelope with fast powders can have spikes in pressure. Using slower powders will not do that.
Fast powders give me more consistent ballistics.
The load above is fine for me and my carry load in that gun because it shoots high with a Kieth bullet (168 SWC). I am now trying the 110 JHP.
Kilibreaux is correct. Look at the manuals about 75 fps can be gained by switching from jacketed to lead. The chronograph proves that. Heavier bullets show the difference more.
I don't totally agree about the hollow point thing. Practicing in my back yard, my son was surprised at the divots made by those loads pictured above. Yes, the hollow point can fill with clothing or whatever then it becomes a solid. BUT if there is no clothing here comes the big divot. To each his own.
You could always do like my dad. 2 Silvertips, 2 Ball and 2 SWC in the cylinder or magazine.
Pushing the envelope with fast powders can have spikes in pressure. Using slower powders will not do that.
Fast powders give me more consistent ballistics.
The load above is fine for me and my carry load in that gun because it shoots high with a Kieth bullet (168 SWC). I am now trying the 110 JHP.
Kilibreaux is correct. Look at the manuals about 75 fps can be gained by switching from jacketed to lead. The chronograph proves that. Heavier bullets show the difference more.
I don't totally agree about the hollow point thing. Practicing in my back yard, my son was surprised at the divots made by those loads pictured above. Yes, the hollow point can fill with clothing or whatever then it becomes a solid. BUT if there is no clothing here comes the big divot. To each his own.
You could always do like my dad. 2 Silvertips, 2 Ball and 2 SWC in the cylinder or magazine.
David R
Member
Not a good day. I loaded 5 of the 110 grain XTP with the max load of Blue dot. Chronograph them. ES of 200 fps. ? I was using worn out +p brass I had. One of the original 5 split. I tumbled some really nice RP brass. I loaded the first one and the bullet fell into the case. Hmmm. Now what. I went back to the +p brass. I could still push the bullet into the brass past thee canalure. I loaded 5 more. Fired 4 and looked at the last one in the cylinder. Sure as can be the bullet was pulled out from the case a little. This was with a good roll crimp.
I measured the XTP with my Brown and Sharp Caliper. .356. Caliper was zeroed. Visiting the hornady site to see if its a screw up or what.
David
I measured the XTP with my Brown and Sharp Caliper. .356. Caliper was zeroed. Visiting the hornady site to see if its a screw up or what.
David
I loaded a 125gr JHP in my M49 snub nose with the Lymans +P loading for the 4" data at 882fps with w231 powder. In my snub nose it did not get 800 fps in "my" snub nose !!
I do not have HS-6 but do have some slow powders like it.
I tried a fast burn Red Dot at the Nyclad speed of 836 fps with a Speer 125 Gold Dot and it went through three water jugs and stopped against a backup board..................
NO expansion on this test !!
I got the load up to 870 fps that matches most ammo makers but I feel a lot better with my loads that do 903 fps but they might be too much for you and that light Ruger.
Good shooting.
I do not have HS-6 but do have some slow powders like it.
I tried a fast burn Red Dot at the Nyclad speed of 836 fps with a Speer 125 Gold Dot and it went through three water jugs and stopped against a backup board..................
NO expansion on this test !!
I got the load up to 870 fps that matches most ammo makers but I feel a lot better with my loads that do 903 fps but they might be too much for you and that light Ruger.
Good shooting.
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