Look what the high water has flushed out

Had 1 encounter with a really cranky cottonmouth .... he was between me and the only path up the hill to where my truck was. After I finally got him out of the way ... I went straight home broke my wifes broom ( she had the expected reaction ) put my frog gig on the end of it and went back for my fishing gear. Yes I left it. She had the usual question " what are you doing " ... I'm going to get my stuff ... and if he's still there one of us is in for a bad day. Never saw one again .. up close anyway .. but always did have that frog gig with me too ... just in case.
 
butchd said:
I don't mean to contend with Faulkner. 1. because I like his posts and 2. because I don't know who's right. That snake is very common down hear in warm water. The backwater lakes off the Mississippi are full of them. 6 feet long specimins are common. Summer days would see the trees draped with them as they digested the lumps that segmented their bodies. Most old river rats called 'em Water Rattlers. Then more educated folks called them Banded Water Snakes. I've never known which was right. Snakes that I knew to be Cotton Mouths by the smell, fangs, and white mouth were mostly single colored, brown or black. The longest was 4 feet and most were less than 2. They share the diamond shaped head. The true Cotton Mouth swims with his whole body on top of the water. This fellow doesn't. They both have a nasty disposition. My buddy and I were catching frogs one night in Lake Enterprise, as far South as you can get and still be in Southeast Arkansas, when a heavy, flouncing, thumping hit the mid-section of the Jonboat. Neither of us could get our lights on him but both could remember the huge snakes that draped the limbs over our head in daylight. Luckily it turned out to be a 6 pound bass that had jumped into the boat. I'm not saying that this caused it. But I became a drinker for 20 years and my pal is still in a Baptist pulpit almost 60 years later.
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I believe what you are describing is a brown water snake, very common throughout the South, and has a musky smell. I have encountered hundreds (no exaggeration) of cottonmouths, and they are usually short and fat. The brown water snake on the other hand, will get several feet long, and has a diamond shaped head that is often confused with a poisonous snake. Below is a picture of a brown water snake (not a cotton mouth) that came into our tent. For scale, I am 6' 4" tall.

30345253.jpg
 
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oldman45 said:
Actually that happened to a local insurance agent. He and his wife were fishing on one of the local lakes and got next to some brush with their boat. A large cottonmouth fell into the floor of the boat. The man promptly shot the snake with his 38spl but it took three shots.

A few words of advice, bullets travel through snakes rather easily. They also make holes in a flat bottom wooden boat. Wooden boats sink faster than one can paddle.
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And real question here is "does the snake die faster than the boat sinks"?
 
VM said:
Why?
It's in his home minding his own buisness.
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I think it's adorable! (Seriously, I'm not scared of ANY snake or spider...scorpions are a different issue...they should be killed with thermonuclear fire! Yes, I was chased by a cottonmouth into the back of a Chevy 3/4 pickup...my best friend handled him with a shot from a 22 loaded with ratshot!)
 
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Keep in mind that real cottonmouths resemble copperheads when young, but the venom is more potent.

Both are of the genus Agkistrodon. (I'm spelling from memory; I think that's right.) The cottonmoutn is A. piscivorous, indicating that it's a fish eater.
It is well known for its aggressive nature. The venom causes severe necrosis, the death of tissue.

As for the snake in the boat syndrome, I once wrote a fan fiction where that occurred. The snake was a tropical American pit viper that causes many deaths. It is variously known as a terciopelo or yellow beard (Barba Amarilla).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bothrops_atrox
One of the dangerous ones often mistaken for the true Fer-de-Lance, which occurs only on Martinique. The heroine was about to shoot it when her distinguished scientist companion warned her that a bullet might pierce their canoe and told her to use a machete. She beheaded the snake, and they flipped it out of the canoe with a paddle. A big turtle got it as it sank. Dangerous place...The moral here is that it may be a good idea to have a machete in the boat, where legal. This assumes that the occupants of the boat are responsible adults capable of using a machete carefully and effectively.

Don't know if it's a good idea to shoot in a boat with shot shells in a revolver. Ricochets of the pellets might be really bad news. Could they pierce an aluminum hull, if they hit in a mass, maybe still in the plastic capsule?

T-Star
 
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butchd said:
I don't mean to contend with Faulkner. 1. because I like his posts and 2. because I don't know who's right. That snake is very common down hear in warm water. The backwater lakes off the Mississippi are full of them. 6 feet long specimins are common. Summer days would see the trees draped with them as they digested the lumps that segmented their bodies. Most old river rats called 'em Water Rattlers. Then more educated folks called them Banded Water Snakes. I've never known which was right. Snakes that I knew to be Cotton Mouths by the smell, fangs, and white mouth were mostly single colored, brown or black. The longest was 4 feet and most were less than 2. They share the diamond shaped head. The true Cotton Mouth swims with his whole body on top of the water. This fellow doesn't. They both have a nasty disposition. My buddy and I were catching frogs one night in Lake Enterprise, as far South as you can get and still be in Southeast Arkansas, when a heavy, flouncing, thumping hit the mid-section of the Jonboat. Neither of us could get our lights on him but both could remember the huge snakes that draped the limbs over our head in daylight. Luckily it turned out to be a 6 pound bass that had jumped into the boat. I'm not saying that this caused it. But I became a drinker for 20 years and my pal is still in a Baptist pulpit almost 60 years later.
Click to expand...

I freely admit to not being a snake expert, and I'm pretty confident that this one was a cottonmouth . . . but not confident enough to bet money on it.

I've hunted and fished my whole life in Arkansas & Mississippi and have seen and killed literally dozens of snakes, including lots of cottonmouths. As a teenager, we used to sit on the banks of the Saline River and shoot snakes all afternoon. I've seen my share of water snakes and cottonmouths.

Though I only took the one picture, I paddled around and positioned my kayak around the snake a few minutes and saw it's distinctive triangle shaped head. I'm pretty sure it was a cottonmouth, but I don't know that I could swear to it. Regardless, it was big, it didn't seem to be much impressed by my presence, and I was more intimidated by it than it was by me whether it was a cottonmouth or not.
 
I can take or leave rattlers or copperheads, but I hate a cottonmouth; had a few close calls with them when I worked in south GA and along the coast.

I think Faulkner is right about the snake. Cottonmouths are the same genus as copperheads; young ones look much like copperheads. As they get older they become a uniformly dark brown/blackish color. If this one was as long as described and colored like that I am betting it was something along the lines of a Florida water snake.

FLMNH - Florida Water Snake (Nerodia fasciata pictiventris)

We would occasionally run across these or some species very similar when harvesting ponds on the fish hatchery. They can be counted on to bite with little provocation. They are one reason I like a sit-on-top kayak...easier for them to get off (hopefully before I do and leave them with it :D).
 
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In my book they are all bad, and need killing with fire, shot shells (12ga,38spl) or hoe, anything handy that will get the job done quickly. Before you start the flame, let me tell you I don't care and that is the truth!
 
As for the snake in the boat syndrome said:
I wouldn't be too keen to shoot at the boat, no matter what
the load. .410 at close range would sure whack a bunch of little
holes in most any boat skin.
Back in the 60's, we had a water moccasin climb up the transom
plate of our boat and get in the back. It was late at night and we
were crappie fishin.. Had lanterns hanging off the side of the boat
with blinders which we used to lure fish and fish bait. My dad was
sitting in the back by the motor, and me and one of the brothers
were farther up in the middle of the boat. I'm sitting there fishing
when all of a sudden my dad jumps up and yells "snake!", and
then started whacking it with the paddle, and then finally was able
to scoop it up and fling it out of the boat.
This plan worked out pretty well, as being in the middle of the lake,
in the middle of the night, holes in a boat are generally a dismal
situation. But we had no guns on us anyway.. We was fishin, not
hunting. :/
This was on Lake Pomona in Kansas, which is sort of SW of the
Kansas City KS area.
On a personal note, I was once fishing at a salt dome little lake
south of Houston and had caught a few cat fish. One was pretty
decent size. After it started to get dark I caught one more, and
lifted our big metal fish basket up out of the water to throw the
keeper into. A big water moccasin was hanging off the basket!
I finally got him to let loose, and pulled the basket up.
That varmint had almost chewed a hole all the way through that
metal fish basket, and had already bit the larger fish several times.
I was amazed that the snake could eat through a metal fish basket.
He chewed the heck out of it, and pretty much had a hole going
when I interrupted his fun. Needless to say, I chunked the bit fish
in the water. No way I was going to eat that perforated critter.
A long paddle gets my vote if no machete. Heck, the machete I
have is not long enough for me to feel comfy whacking a snake.
Have to get my hand too close, but I guess would be better than
nothing.
I hate water moccasins, and any that wander near me will become
belt material. And yes, those danged things love to drop in boats.
We knew that back then, and avoided trees and brush near the bank.
But I also watch for the same thing when I'm canoeing and kayaking
down rivers. I try to keep away from hanging tree branches.
Click to expand...
 
In the back of my property there is a bayou. See those snakes all the time. The cotton mouth has a reputation for being very agressive, especially late around august. They have been know to climb in boats. I try to keep the grass kinda short so one can spot them easier. Usually when the bayou comes over the banks and floods their holes it can get interesting. I usually carry a H&R 410 shotgun so far this year snakes-0 shotgun-2 john deere tractor-1. Frank
 
I don't do it anymore, but back in the day, I killed a fair number of snakes with a Red Ryder BB gun. I used to carry one in the rod locker of my bass boat, for the kids to use when they got bored. I picked it up one day thinking I'd harass a snake that was coiled up on the end of a river jetty. About the third time I hit him, he rolled over on his back and sank like a rock. Wow. Who knew?

I shot a couple more to establish that it wasn't a fluke (brown water snakes). It wasn't. A hit to the head was bad news for the snake.

I stopped doing it. No need to kill 'em when all they're doing is being a snake. It's what they do.

I don't know if that Red Ryder was a fluke or not but it would throw a BB WAY down the river. If the river was dead flat you could watch for it to hit, but with any ripple it was out of sight. That thing had some POP to it.
 
With six million snake bites each year in the world and over 125,000 deaths from snake bites, there is no way a snake needs to live after being sighted.

You do not have to be near a lake, swamp or woods to get snake bit either. My niece was getting out of her car in a paved church parking lot when she was bitten by a copperhead. It is believed the snake got into the frame of the car somewhere else and dropped out when she stopped to go to church. The bite was also painful and financially hard on her family.

Kill snakes.
 
I've been chased by one trying to get into the front door at work. He was 3 feet long.
I beat him to death with a broom. The funny thing is as a Realtor I had just shown a house to a couple from Philadelphia that was transferring to Central Florida. That water moccasin was in front of my sales office. It chased the 3 of us into the office. I was sure that killed the sale. They came back the next day and signed the contract anyway.
 
Cottonmouths get a bad rap - they don't 'chase' folks. In the water, they try to go from point A to point B, no matter what is in the way. I was amused one day - my sailboat, a San Juan 21, tied to a pier - when a cottonmouth was swimming -on top of the marina's water - and straight into the side of my boat - repeatedly - maybe 10-12 times. My gunwales were too high for the snake - he looked to be ~30". He opened his white mouth only when I pushed him away with a docking pole.

They don't have the best sight, as they depend on IR detectors on their face for detecting their dinner or predators. When they find something warm blooded, they either consider it is dinner - or a Cajun - and they are about to become 'The other white meat...' - or 'What's for dinner!'.
I avoid them... fearing they may mistake me for a Cajun! Oddly, rattlers stink so badly, you can generally avoid them. Copperheads just require some vigilance - and decent leggings. I'm from the school of, 'It's their home!', when I am in the woods - mine when they are in my yard. They aren't so welcome in 'My home...'.

Stainz
 
Lots of myths and legends distort our views of snakes. We don't take time to understand them chiefly because it's hard to understand something seen over one's shoulder while in a dead run. Cotton mouths and banded water snakes have a lot of mystery because they stand their ground. I don't think they go out of their way to be mean. They seem to abide by the axiom that the shortest distance is a straight line. The banded water snake is almost always 6 feet long or longer. Cotton mouths are almost always short and stout. Both have diamond shaped heads. I try to keep enough distance that I can't see their eye slits. I would guess the Cotton Mouth's are elipses. Both stink to heaven. Both bite. I speak from experience that the banded fellow does not have fangs. Venomous snakes are supposed to swim on top of the watter. I believe that is true but I've seen non-venomous do the same. I try to give them a wide berth and am thankful that I don't have to contend with the menagery that the Australians have. I think they have venomous crickets. Faulkner may remember that in North Little Rock a few years ago that they found a Cobra, a mamba, and some other critter in a pile of crates. Authorities figured they were escaped pets. Make mine Beagles, please.
 
Stainz said:
Cottonmouths get a bad rap - they don't 'chase' folks.
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Probably not, but I'll tell you this absolutely true story. Back in the 1970's my friend Harry Smith and I were fishing for white perch in a 14' jon boat in Bennets Creek, which flows into the Chowan River. There is a post above in this thread stating the large number of Cottonmouths to be found in the Chowan River. Harry and I were both armed with J frame Model 60's. I additionally had 6 rounds of extra ammo on my belt, Harry had only the 5 in his gun.

At one spot we noticed a cottonmouth about 20 yards from our boat, just sitting in the water, with his head raised in our direction about 6 or 8 inches above the water. We were ready to move anyway, so we did, to a spot maybe 100 yards away. In a few minutes we were joined by what we believed to be that same cottonmouth, still about 20 yards from the boat, and still with his head raised up out of the water. We decided to put an end to this, and on signal Harry and I both emptied our Model 60's at the snake's position. There were 10 rapid fire loud noises, and lots of splashing and foaming water as the bullets hit the surface. Harry and I were laughing out loud as we fired, but when the disturbance and turbulance subsided, the snake was still there, unhit and unafraid, with his head raised up out of the water, pointed in our direction.

Harry and I decided to fish somewhere else, and moved further down the creek, only to be joined again by what was surely the same snake, exactly as before. Low on ammo, Harry and I determined we had fished enough for that day, and went on back to the landing. That is a true story.

Edited to add: I have other true cottonmouth fishing stories, as evidenced by the picture below, but I won't bore you with more than one at a time.

12807767.jpg
 
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After over fifty years of "playing with snakes", there are a few things that I've learned: if any snake is within a mile of water, it's automatically a cottonmouth; If any snake isn't near water, it's automatically a copperhead; if a snake retreats in the general direction of you, it's chasing you; most killed snakes are around nine feet long; a "diamond-shaped head" is automatically a poisonous snake, regardless of species.
 
Stainz said:
Cottonmouths get a bad rap - they don't 'chase' folks. In the water, they try to go from point A to point B, no matter what is in the way. I was amused one day - my sailboat, a San Juan 21, tied to a pier - when a cottonmouth was swimming -on top of the marina's water - and straight into the side of my boat - repeatedly - maybe 10-12 times. My gunwales were too high for the snake - he looked to be ~30". He opened his white mouth only when I pushed him away with a docking pole.

They don't have the best sight, as they depend on IR detectors on their face for detecting their dinner or predators. When they find something warm blooded, they either consider it is dinner - or a Cajun - and they are about to become 'The other white meat...' - or 'What's for dinner!'.
I avoid them... fearing they may mistake me for a Cajun! Oddly, rattlers stink so badly, you can generally avoid them. Copperheads just require some vigilance - and decent leggings. I'm from the school of, 'It's their home!', when I am in the woods - mine when they are in my yard. They aren't so welcome in 'My home...'.

Stainz
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Many years ago, me and my best friend were fishing in a backwater off of Lake Livington. We had caught nothing but bait stealers and were getting bored. My best friend and I saw a snake swiming a few yards out...against my advice, he threw an empty beer bottle at it. It nissed, but pissed off the snake who promptly bee-lined for us. Ultimately, it put us in the back bed of his pickup where he promptly emptied a Marlin .22 loaded with rat shot into it.
The snake came up on the bank after us. It was a cottonmouth (albeit not a very big one). His dad doubled over with laughter when we told him the story then said we asked for it.
Cottonmouths don't chase you? Hmmm could've fooled me. I don't think he was coming to us to see if we had any beer! A contractor where I work did the same type of stunt when he was a kid...only he wasn't so lucky.

Sorry, Stainz, but I most heartedly disagree with you here.
 
I also beg to differ with Stainz.

I have a cottonmouth that lives in one of my small stock ponds. He only makes his presence known when I do not have a weapon with me.

The pond is only 50 feet across. I have never provoked him with rocks, sticks, fat snake jokes, etc. If I see him on the other side, he will make a beeline for me. If I reverse direction, he heads that way also.


I have only seen one of his kind in the pond. I hope and pray that he is a sterile, gay male.
 
ThirtyAcres said:
I also beg to differ with Stainz.

I have a cottonmouth that lives in one of my small stock ponds. He only makes his presence known when I do not have a weapon with me.

The pond is only 50 feet across. I have never provoked him with rocks, sticks, fat snake jokes, etc. If I see him on the other side, he will make a beeline for me. If I reverse direction, he heads that way also.


I have only seen one of his kind in the pond. I hope and pray that he is a sterile, gay male.
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Why do you tolerate this? That snake is going to tag someone someday!
 
After over fifty years of "playing with snakes", there are a few things that I've learned: if any snake is within a mile of water, it's automatically a cottonmouth; If any snake isn't near water, it's automatically a copperhead; if a snake retreats in the general direction of you, it's chasing you; most killed snakes are around nine feet long; a "diamond-shaped head" is automatically a poisonous snake, regardless of species.
Click to expand...

Cass, thanks for Confirming what I believed to be true for years. Sorry but if I see a snake I will do everything I can to kill it.
 
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