Lube straight wall cases in carbide dies?

[wrangler5]

I've been loading pistol rounds for ~25 years using Lee carbide sizing dies. I've always tumbled cases clean before sizing and reloading, almost always in corn cob, usually with a bit of polish added to the media after every few batches and run for a couple of hours to spread it out. I have NEVER lubed a 380, 9mm Mak, 9mm Luger, 38 Special, 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 Colt or 45 ACP case using these dies.

I recently discovered the joys of 32 caliber revolvers (accidentally, after buying a Colt Detective Special in 32 to use to fit BK grip adapters - the 32 was cheaper than any of the 38 Special guns I saw, and since all I wanted it for was the grip size and shape . . . ) I now have a 31-1 in 32 S&W Long and a 432PD in H&R Mag, and bought Lee carbide die sets in each size - so I wouldn't have to change seating and crimp settings when loading each size.

Both of the carbide size dies would start off fine, but after only 10-20 rounds would be scratching the cases like crazy. I could clean the carbide ring, ending up with Flitz on a Q-tip spinning in a Dremel tool, but this would only start the process over. Fine at first, but quickly building up some kind of grit that scratched the cases. Effort went up on the press handle as the scratching got worse.

Lee kindly polished each of the dies for me, and after coming back they feel like all of my other carbide dies when sizing a case. But each die came with a note saying that new or highly polished brass could leave particles on the carbide ring, and I should use some lube when using these dies.

As I said, I have never used lube on pistol cases, nor have I ever had this kind of scratching problem with any of the other calibers I've loaded over the years. The 32s are mostly Starline cases, my case brand of choice for a long time. I haven't needed to reload any cases since the dies came back from Lee, so I don't really know if lube will be essential to keep scratching from recurring with the newly polished dies.

But I'm wondering if anybody else has had this experience? And if lube is (effectively) needed, what's the best choice if I want to do a few hundred cases at a go? I don't want to have to clean lube off the cases after sizing (like I have to do with 223, 308, etc cases), as that takes away a WHOLE LOT of the advantages of a progressive press. It looks like Hornady One Shot is something that doesn't have to be wiped off, but I may be misreading things.

Thoughts and suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[Ballistic147]

I'm fairly new to reloading so take this for what it's worth. I've used both the Hornady titanium nitride coated dies and the Lee carbide dies. Both say lube is not needed as the surface of the sizing ring is slick. After trying it both lubed and unlubed the effort required to run the press is much less when the cases are lubed so that's the way I do it. I line the cases up in a group of 100 and hit them with a little Hornady One Shot on two sides. Doesn't take much at all. I then proceed with loading. Once the 100 rounds are loaded I do wipe each one down as I put them in a box.

 

[Rule3]

I apply a very light "spritz" of diluted water base lube to all my brass, any caliber, even with carbide dies. It makes sizing much smoother

 

[arjay]

I've been lubing my 45 colt cases lately.It makes resizing easier and it's easy enough using any kind of spray.I just tumble them after sizing instead of before to get it off.

 

[kbm6893]

I used to not lube them since I was told I didn't need to. Then I gave it a shot and the dies resize much easier. I do it for all my batches now. Just a spritz into a plastic Baggie filled with cases and then roll them around for a few seconds.

 

[OKFC05]

But each die came with a note saying that new or highly polished brass could leave particles on the carbide ring

I don't normally lube and I also do not polish the dickens out of my cases. If the cases are just cleaned in walnut hull and don't have residue, that is ready to load. If you have new cases, a little shot of case lube helps. The carbide sizers are not designed for surgically clean bare brass.

 

[scooter123]

I suspect that you had some sizing dies that weren't properly polished. Because that is the only explanation I can think of that would cause the problem with scratches you reported.

BTW, my 40 caliber and 380 ACP dies are Lee and my 38 spl/357 Magnum and 45 ACP dies are RCBS. Many times I've sized cases straight out of the range baggie without doing any cleaning or lubrication at all. However, if the cases are really grungy or I find the flaring die is "thumbcuffing" the cases I will use lube to make things easier. Then it's into a wet bath with stainless pins for an hour or so and into a ziplock bag after the cases are dry. When I do use lube I use the RCBS case lube. I keep thinking about trying the spray stuff but I still have plenty of the RCBS lube on hand and I know exactly how much to put on a rifle case so the shoulders don't buckle. As for lubing handgun cases, I tray up 50 cases and simply press the lube pad down on the entire tray. Doing this leaves a tiny ring of lube that is just perfect for a tray of handgun cases.

 

[Dobie406]

I too load 32 S&W Longs with Lee dies. I have no problem with the sizing die, but that
silly powder through expanding die with the "floating" expander inside is a clunky
pain. Virgin brass it wouldn't let go, better with used brass, but not much.

 

[MJFlores]

I only lube rifle brass when I size, but here's something to try. Treat your tumbling media with Dillon rapid polish, and cut up a dryer sheet and put that in with the cases. Between the two they essentially come out "sorta lubed" and breeze through sizing dies with nothing to clean off after. Every few months I clean my sizing dies with a patch wet with Balistol, which also helps quite a bit.

 

[Nemo288]

Most of my dies are Redding or RCBS.
I really like Redding and use their dual ring carbide dies for 44.
If you are using polish in a tumbler, I have found that just leaving that on the brass is enough to help them thru a carbide die.
Nickel plated brass is a different story. I have quite a bit of it.
I do as several of the above suggest and put a very light spray on those.
Once you get galling on a die you must clean it or you will scratch the brass.
I put JB on a patch on a tight jag and mounted in a batdrill, polish the carbide ring until the offending metal is gone.
Lubing all the brass is certainly not going to hurt anything and will make everything slicker than hog snot on a brass rail.
Steel dies I clean every time they are used. Mostly by running an oil rag thru them to pick up any loose schmutz.

 

[wrangler5]

Apart from the fact that I've never had cause to even think about lubing cases in the 25 or so years I've been using Lee dies for other calibers, I wouldn't mind applying a spray lube to cases before starting the reloading process on a progressive press. What I'm not at all thrilled about is the prospect of having to deprime and size, THEN put the cases back in the tumbler to get the lube OFF.

I do that with rifle cases out of necessity. But it would mean handling each 32 case again (after the second cleaning) to be sure there's no cleaning media stuck in the flash hole. And there's no easy way to start deprimed cases in the priming stage of a Loadmaster to carry on with the rest of the steps.

I know I've sized hundreds if not thousands of virgin Starline cases over the years without a separate lubrication step and without a hint of problems. And all of the tens of thousands of rounds I've reloaded with non-virgin brass have gone through pretty much the same cleaning cycle before getting resized. Again, without lube and without a hint of the problems I've seen with these two 32 dies. I'm guessing that the residue of the polish I add to the corncob has been enough for the other calibers, but for some reason isn't enough for the 32 cases/dies.

I think I will try adding even more of the polish to the corncob and run some virgin Starline brass through that. I'll pick the flash holes just to see if the process will eliminate the galling/scratching.

If that doesn't work, does anybody know if the Hornady One Shot is truly intended to be left on the cases after processing, or does it need to be cleaned off like all other lubes before the ammo is fired? I see hints that it's OK to leave it on, but haven't found anything specific.

 

[Bugkiller99]

I've lubed using a dab of alox diluted in Alcohol. Just a little dab ill do ya. . Sorry couldn't resist.
It dries quickly and I've never removed it. Lube, load, shoot.

 

[joe44va]

I lube all my cases, including straight wall handgun cases. It makes a 100+ session with a Dillon easier on the old arm joints. I do this by spraying a couple of pumps of RCBS spray lube into a gallon Zip lock bag, add a couple of hundred cases, Zip her up and roll the bag around in my hands for a minute or two and it's done. leaves a very thin, but effective, coat on each case and powder from case cleaning sticks to the bag, well at least some of it. The lube coat is light enough that I don't clean it off. Bottleneck rifle cases are another matter.

 

[kbm6893]

Apart from the fact that I've never had cause to even think about lubing cases in the 25 or so years I've been using Lee dies for other calibers, I wouldn't mind applying a spray lube to cases before starting the reloading process on a progressive press. What I'm not at all thrilled about is the prospect of having to deprime and size, THEN put the cases back in the tumbler to get the lube OFF.

I do that with rifle cases out of necessity. But it would mean handling each 32 case again (after the second cleaning) to be sure there's no cleaning media stuck in the flash hole. And there's no easy way to start deprimed cases in the priming stage of a Loadmaster to carry on with the rest of the steps.

I know I've sized hundreds if not thousands of virgin Starline cases over the years without a separate lubrication step and without a hint of problems. And all of the tens of thousands of rounds I've reloaded with non-virgin brass have gone through pretty much the same cleaning cycle before getting resized. Again, without lube and without a hint of the problems I've seen with these two 32 dies. I'm guessing that the residue of the polish I add to the corncob has been enough for the other calibers, but for some reason isn't enough for the 32 cases/dies.

I think I will try adding even more of the polish to the corncob and run some virgin Starline brass through that. I'll pick the flash holes just to see if the process will eliminate the galling/scratching.

If that doesn't work, does anybody know if the Hornady One Shot is truly intended to be left on the cases after processing, or does it need to be cleaned off like all other lubes before the ammo is fired? I see hints that it's OK to leave it on, but haven't found anything specific.

I deprime and size first, then I tumble in walnut media and car polish. A quick spin in the media separator has never left anything behind, but even if it did, I sonic clean the tumbled brass anyway and rinse them off after that. Brass is shiny inside and out. When they're dry I expand them all so they're
Ready for primers as I need them.

 

[S&WIowegan]

I've been reloading for over 25 years and also believed that lube wasn't necessary if I use carbide ring dies on straight cases. I eventually learned that a quick spray of Hornady One-Shot sure did give my beat-up right elbow a lot less stress. I just sprayed a big batch of 9mm this afternoon when I noticed the sizing die was giving a lot of resistance.

Spray...a little spritz will save your arm!

 

[arjay]

Apart from the fact that I've never had cause to even think about lubing cases in the 25 or so years I've been using Lee dies for other calibers, I wouldn't mind applying a spray lube to cases before starting the reloading process on a progressive press. What I'm not at all thrilled about is the prospect of having to deprime and size, THEN put the cases back in the tumbler to get the lube OFF.



I do that with rifle cases out of necessity. But it would mean handling each 32 case again (after the second cleaning) to be sure there's no cleaning media stuck in the flash hole. And there's no easy way to start deprimed cases in the priming stage of a Loadmaster to carry on with the rest of the steps.



I know I've sized hundreds if not thousands of virgin Starline cases over the years without a separate lubrication step and without a hint of problems. And all of the tens of thousands of rounds I've reloaded with non-virgin brass have gone through pretty much the same cleaning cycle before getting resized. Again, without lube and without a hint of the problems I've seen with these two 32 dies. I'm guessing that the residue of the polish I add to the corncob has been enough for the other calibers, but for some reason isn't enough for the 32 cases/dies.



I think I will try adding even more of the polish to the corncob and run some virgin Starline brass through that. I'll pick the flash holes just to see if the process will eliminate the galling/scratching.



If that doesn't work, does anybody know if the Hornady One Shot is truly intended to be left on the cases after processing, or does it need to be cleaned off like all other lubes before the ammo is fired? I see hints that it's OK to leave it on, but haven't found anything specific.

Toss the loaded rounds in for five minutes,it won't hurt anything.

 

[springer99]

If that doesn't work, does anybody know if the Hornady One Shot is truly intended to be left on the cases after processing, or does it need to be cleaned off like all other lubes before the ammo is fired? I see hints that it's OK to leave it on, but haven't found anything specific.

Haven't read anything specific in that regard, but since I use One-shot as my primary gun cleaner and lube, AND the properties of that are very similar to One-shot case lube, I've never bothered cleaning off the minimal amount of case lube remaining after I've reloaded them. Heck, I figure it's already inside the chamber and bore anyway from my cleaning.

Ref: http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/DynaGlide-Advantage.pdf

 

[federali]

Helpful

I haven't been lubing my straight wall cases but I do wash and tumble them which makes them negotiate the dies very easily. I'll also try some lube. Thanks for the tip.

 

[dmar]

I wouldn't overthink it... For pistol calibers, like you, I tumble my brass in corncob, with some NuFinish polish mixed in. I then spread the clean cases on a high sided sheet metal tray, spay a little One Shot over them and roll/mix them around. I usually let them dry, but not always. I also don't spray too much on the cases. Then it's loading as usual. I never tumble decapped cases, that is done on the press after cleaning.

I do not clean off the One Shot, and don't notice any troublesome residue. And yes, the lube does help. Just smooths things out. Don't "need" it, but it is easier on the shoulder and, again, nice and smooth.

I don't load 32s, but if the case is like 9mm, it will have a slight taper. 9mm is definitely helped by a little lube... I also use Lee dies for some of my calibers, and they work great.

 

[22 HORNET]

I lube my dies about ever 10 case just makes them work better for me.
HORNET