M&P 9mm accuracy issues?

[kodiakpb]

I got a new m&p a couple of months ago. The grip, sight picture, low bore axis and trigger were overwhelming in a good way. Perfect reliability with several types of ammo. I did have to get used to the trigger pull, to me the percieved pull was light. I polished the sear, trigger bar loop and firing pin block. It has a tremendous trigger. Accuracy was a puzzle. Poor groups and inconsistent. A close look with a magnifying glass showed "chatter" marks on the barrel crown, and it was easy to see that the crown was not cleanly round. I carefully smoothed out the ragged crown and the accuracy improved greatly. It is very acceptable accuracy for the price.

Spot on analysis. My experience and observations (barrel crown, accuracy, etc.) have been exactly the same. Although the groups were "acceptable", they were nowhere near the accuracy of my Glocks.

Here was a 12 yard/36 foot group shot standing unsupported onto a 7" paper plate. While it may look acceptable, my Glocks will clover leaf everytime with no crazy flyers that come out of nowhere.

While I have not messed with the crown, I did pick up a factory threaded barrel, so we'll see if there is any difference this weekend. Out of curiosity what did you do to smooth out the crown chatter?

 

[WR Moore]

Remember that the M&Ps sights are set-up so the front sight covers what your aiming at.

.

Ah, that's not the way mine works. May depend upon ammo, grip and your trigger stroke. Now as it happens, that's the way my 5906 shoots 147 gr standard pressure.

 

[1sailor]

This is all pretty interesting because the remarks here are totaly different from those I got on my question (How accurate can the M&P fs be). I had a question regarding the ultimate capable accuracy of the FS models. Of the few responses I got there owners were claiming sub 2" groups at 25 yards to be typical.

 

[Martimus]

Out of curiousity, has anyone tried swapping an after-market barrel into a M&P 9FS with accuracy issues? I know that S&W has "supposedly" resolved the issue for some individual owners by swapping barrels... and I know that some third party barrels are considered as good or better than factory barrels... but has anybody tried doing this to resolve this particular issue?

 

[painter]

Thanks for posting the graphic. Just got the M&P 9c and took a bit to figure out sighting. First time out at father-in-laws house, neither of us could hit paper at 25 to 30yds with 5 shots each. Got worried as i noticed for first time that front sight was placed far left of center of the slide from the factory. Took it to range and put more rounds through it. it got much better with 3" groups at 25yds. the more i shot the better it got. A friend was there with his grand kids, so i let them put a few rounds through it. Each one went through a clip before hitting paper but then found their mark with atleast one bullseye each. I like how the gun feels and now shoots after over 100rds. But am bothered by the positioning of the front sight left of center.
Anyone else have sight issues. Was thinking of sending it in to S&W over that issue. but it shoots straight. what would you do?

 

[painter]

barrel crown

I got a new m&p a couple of months ago. The grip, sight picture, low bore axis and trigger were overwhelming in a good way. Perfect reliability with several types of ammo. I did have to get used to the trigger pull, to me the percieved pull was light. I polished the sear, trigger bar loop and firing pin block. It has a tremendous trigger. Accuracy was a puzzle. Poor groups and inconsistent. A close look with a magnifying glass showed "chatter" marks on the barrel crown, and it was easy to see that the crown was not cleanly round. I carefully smoothed out the ragged crown and the accuracy improved greatly. It is very acceptable accuracy for the price.
This is how handguns are marketed these days, poor QC, get them out the door and sale them and then fix the returns that come back. This is why there are so many love/hate issues with most all handguns brands. At least the m&p is reliable.

I agree with your comment about how handguns are marketed these days.
I have not heard the term barrel crown. I know what crown means on a 2x4 board when culling through them to build a straight wall. Is it simular. can you elaborate on the term and how to identify it? Just curious and want to learn. Thanks!!

 

[painter]

Just wondering where you picked up the factory threaded barrel? Would like to get one myself. New gun laws go into effect here in Oklahoma Nov. 1st regarding suppressors.

 

[PC Geek Shooter]

This is all pretty interesting because the remarks here are totally different from those I got on my question (How accurate can the M&P FS be). I had a question regarding the ultimate capable accuracy of the FS models. Of the few responses I got there owners were claiming sub 2" groups at 25 yards to be typical.

Most of those 9mm's I'm sure were before mid 2010 or so. Saying that there are newer ones for sure that will get 3" and sometimes 2", but those are the exception by and large. The .45's have always been very accurate from what I've read through the years on many other forums. Same goes for the .40's, but there are very few FS .40s that have accuracy problems, but I've read there are some. Nothing that S&W won't fix for you though.

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried swapping an after-market barrel into a M&P 9FS with accuracy issues? I know that S&W has "supposedly" resolved the issue for some individual owners by swapping barrels... and I know that some third party barrels are considered as good or better than factory barrels... but has anybody tried doing this to resolve this particular issue?

I assume most aftermarket barrels are just a little bit bigger and have less play. I know that Grant from G&RTactical is getting __Oversized__ barrels from Storm Lake that they will ONLY allow him to install. They have to be custom fitted to the slide, that's how he's been getting 1" to sub 1" groups. He's charging $200 with it fitted, which is a good price, but then again you shouldn't have to do this either. I know if the M&P 9 FS were coming out of the factory getting 2" groups there would still be people paying for 1" and below groups, but it wouldn't be many. Apparently custom fit over-sized barrels is what the S&W Pro shooters have been getting for years for the M&P's, and I assume any gun they get that's not a revolver.

Now hopefully Apex's new locking block will make most 9mm FS's the way they should of been from the factory. I'm sure it'll make the M&P9C a little bit better, but I'm not 100% sure on this. I'd assume it'd make the .40's tighten up the groups a little bit more.

Let's hope in the future that S&W will have lasers on the mfg line that will read the dimensions of the whole slide down to 10,000's of an inch and also the barrel. Then they'll have to program a way of trying to match the slide to the barrel as best as they can. I'm sure it would improve the accuracy on all of the guns that are produced. Now if they also addressed the dwell time in the M&P 9 FS it would make them more accurate right away, but if they also did the laser matching it would be very, very accurate I'd assume. I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap, but maybe if they do an upgrade in 5-10 years they might look into something like this. First step is fixing the issue with the dwell time right away. It'd be nice if Apex could license the new locking block to S&W and if you'd call them with your M&P9 FS you'd get one. Maybe for your M&P9C and M&P40 FS you'd have to pay a little money for one.

I've been waiting to purchase a new M&P9 FS from Grant, which I guess the barrels won't be ready until end of this month at the earlies or probably mid August. I've been looking on local AL postings and keep coming across G17 and G19 Gen4's. I shot a G17 G4 but it had the FTE issues a lot. It was very annoying. I'd much rather have 6" groups out to 25 yards with the M&P9 FS (which I think is very unacceptable though) than 9mm Gen4 FTE issues which can really ruin your day if your defending yourself. Was a good deal on the G17 Gen4 for $450, but still couldn't bite since just don't know if you'll run into the FTE issue right away or from what I've read it's more prone to happen after 1200 rounds or so.

I just wish I knew the estimated price on the Apex locking block, if it was $25-30 shipped then I'd just pick up a used M&P9 FS and be done with it. Since their stuff is generally pretty expensive, then that's why I'm very heavily leaning towards the $200 custom fit barrel. Why I'm willing to wait to get a new one from Grant is so I don't have to pay SH back and forth for the slide, so I'd save $25-30. Then again I assume you could do USPS though, but haven't looked into that though, then it'd be a lot cheaper than that.

Oh I forgot, I would sell the Glock Gen4 once I knew if I'd go the Apex locking block direction or the G&RTactical one. Even though I just might get a M&P9 FS that does shoot good enough (under 2.5" to 25 yds). I will eventually start shooting out that far.

 

[jgreiner]

I'm picking up on tidbits concerning accuracy issues with the 9mm, searches aren't yielding much valuable info tho.
Are there any issues?

The rear site on mine was way off center when I got it...moved it...and now at 10 yards, I can shoot the center X out of the silhouette target.

I also added an inexpensive Sig Sauer laser site to it...for night work. (I have the 5" Pro)

 

[kodiakpb]

Just wondering where you picked up the factory threaded barrel? Would like to get one myself. New gun laws go into effect here in Oklahoma Nov. 1st regarding suppressors.

I picked it up from Gunbroker.

 

[painter]

Thanks for letting me know where you got the threaded barrel. Much appreciated.

 

[Tango 106]

barrel crown

I used a dremmel tool attachment-cone shaped stone/grinder and wet/dry 400 grit sand paper, all BY HAND. NO power tools at all. The crown is critical to accuracy because it is the very end of the rifeling that the bullet is in contact with as it exits the barrel. There are different profiles at the end of a barrel, some are flat, some are flat and recessed and some are round. (the recessed style is to protect the muzzle crown) Regardless of the profile, the concern is where the lands and grooves stop and a slight taper opens up from the bore. This is easy to see. What is critical is that the crown is symetrical, with no imperfections at all. It must allow the bullet to exit without being upset by a burr or being sent wobbling because the crown is uneven.
First I noted the deepest part of the rifeling and worked the rest of it down to that point, making very sure it was square. This was a very small distance, just enough to bee seen with the naked eye. I hand turned the cone grinder bit and checked often. Then the 400 grit with oil to hone and smooth everything.
Be careful, you can ruin a barrel, but if you are careful and patient this can be done and if you have ridiculous sized groups, It wont hurt unless you are sloppy. This worked for me.

 

[painter]

Tango... seams to me, You are a wordsmith and gunsmith! Thanks very much for passing on your experiance and knowledge on barrel crown.

 

[Rossi720]

I bought my M&P9 fs MPNxxxx back in 07 and have fired over 500 rds down range, after that I stopped counting. I shoot 3-4 " groups most times at 15 yrds. About 4 months ago my brother in law qualified with it for his CCW permit and the instructor had to double check due to all 30 rounds going through a 4" hole. He had never shot a M&P ever before. He then bought one and feels its not as accurate, was having hard time grouping. I asked to shoot a quick couple of rounds just to see and was still close to 4-5" group, He does not clean, break in or lubricating his weapons like I do. I love my M&P, trust it with my life and would never get rid of it.

 

[125JHP]

So what changed around 2010 that earlier guns seem to be considered more accurate? What would be the serial number prefix range to look for / avoid ?

 

[Maddmax]

So what changed around 2010 that earlier guns seem to be considered more accurate? What would be the serial number prefix range to look for / avoid ?

With so many guns being made/sold maybe it time for new tooling ??

 

[dannybot]

I have had decent accuracy with my FS M&P's, just consistently low left, tight patterns. I was rifing the fence on Apex kits, but finally boke down and did the Burwell technique, and really lightened up the trigger. As far as objective measures, I don't have any. But my USPSA scores when from dead last to 50% at the first match after sear polishing. Also at the same match, I knocked down each steel with a single 115 gr round per target, down from from an average of 1.5 rounds per steel.

 

[ArLEOret]

I am basically a Sig shooter but I wanted to try the M& P but my local gun shop had a used 40 SW at a good price. I bought it and a 9mm threaded barrel. Accuracy very good and no hiccups. Is the 40 accuracy no problem and the problem just lies with the 9?

Stay Safe!

 

[bharner]

I am basically a Sig shooter but I wanted to try the M& P but my local gun shop had a used 40 SW at a good price. I bought it and a 9mm threaded barrel. Accuracy very good and no hiccups. Is the 40 accuracy no problem and the problem just lies with the 9?

Stay Safe!

From what I've read it seems to only affect the 9mm. Something about the locking block being not enough of a redesign from the .40 so the physics aren't quite what they need to be.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

From what I've read it seems to only affect the 9mm. Something about the locking block being not enough of a redesign from the .40 so the physics aren't quite what they need to be.

Excuse me?? Where did you see that piece of information? I have four 9mm M&P's and every one is more accurate than I am. It's a tried and true design from day 1.

This target was shot by my wife...her 3rd magazine out of her new 9mm Shield from 15 yards. Bad shooting is seldom the gun's fault.

 

[Arthury]

Look up the long long thread in m4carbine.net
and you will be able to get discussed issues.

I would say that there is a large difference between shooting my M&P9 and M&P45. I have even sent mine back to S&W and they said it was within their operating margins.

 

[Gran Torino]

Out of curiousity, has anyone tried swapping an after-market barrel into a M&P 9FS with accuracy issues? I know that S&W has "supposedly" resolved the issue for some individual owners by swapping barrels... and I know that some third party barrels are considered as good or better than factory barrels... but has anybody tried doing this to resolve this particular issue?

I'm waiting for APEX to get their Apex/Barstow barrel into production and I plan on picking one up.

 

[Arthury]

Check these

I'm assuming you are shooting jacketed bullets ... make sure the rifling on your M&P9 are not fouled by copper.

If rifling is pretty much filled up, there's not enough grip on the bullet so you are essentially shooting on smooth bore (with no rifling), ending up with a highly unstable bullet. Same thing if you are shooting lead.

Your regular Hoppe's #9 don't remove lead or copper fouling much.

 

[gamma72]

I'm assuming you are shooting jacketed bullets ... make sure the rifling on your M&P9 are not fouled by copper.

If rifling is pretty much filled up, there's not enough grip on the bullet so you are essentially shooting on smooth bore (with no rifling), ending up with a highly unstable bullet. Same thing if you are shooting lead.

Your regular Hoppe's #9 don't remove lead or copper fouling much.

How much ammo would it take to foul up the barrel?

I have a 1911 with over 4k of 45 acp and a M&P9 with over 2k through it with mostly plated bullets. So far i dont see any issues on either pistol with regards to accuracy or copper/lead in the barrel rifling.

 

[cwallace]

Hey Lee...

I usually try to stay positive, but geezzzz, please understand that there are experienced shooters posting about the accuracy issues of the full size M&P 9mm. This is real.
Congrats on having 4 guns that shot consistently. Some of us aren't experiencing that. I received a new barrel for mine, purchased in May, and went from unable to group, unable to keep 5 shots on the paper at 25 yds (benched and bagged), to geting 4-5 inch groups at 25 yds. I still get the occasional unexplained flyer. And anyone who wants to get pissy about shooting out to 25 yds, well, I'm not going to try to explain it to you, you don't want to hear it. (For some shooters, that is the Gold Standard of measured accuracy. That doesn't mean we are practicing to shoot defensively at 25 yds, unless required during a drill or shooting station).


As far as proven design.... It is my understanding that there were changes made to the barrel production when the compact was introduced. So if that is true, the proven design was altered.

As far as QC, my son is an engineer for Micro VU, which makes optical scanning equipment for QC inspection of parts put into production. Used in many, many industries. This is what S&W needs, to pull parts out of a production run to check if they meet the specs of the "Proven Design" benchmark. There are a lot of variables that can change during a production run of a part.

What I can tell you is that the replacement barrel that I received has a much tighter fit to the slide. Hard to really tell how it is interacting with the locking block.
Bottom line, it shoots better.... dramatically better. I don't think I changed very much while I waited for the gun to return from S&W. Infact, I did not fire a single round in any handgun while I awaited its return.

Cw

 

[Nakanokalronin]

Well I got my FS M&P 9 back from S&W today for the second time and the paperwork now says that the barrel has been replaced and meets spec. We'll see soon enough if the problem has been corrected.

 

[budrichard]

"As far as QC, my son is an engineer for Micro VU, which makes optical scanning equipment for QC inspection of parts put into production. Used in many, many industries. This is what S&W needs, to pull parts out of a production run to check if they meet the specs of the "Proven Design" benchmark. There are a lot of variables that can change during a production run of a part."

Anyone with any QC credentials will tell you that a study of the defective items and an on-site audit/examination of the process producing the item are required to make ANY assertion about what is required to fix the problem.-Dick

 

[cwallace]

Regarding QC...

Agreed! Simply dealing with each gun sent in and resolving it's issue does not address the source of the problem. Only S&W has the statics of how many sent in, how resloved.... and then take that info and decide how to solve the problem in manufacturing and production. Otherwise they will continue to fix guns until the cows come home.

Cw

 

[blujax01]

2" groups at 25 yards?

I am very jealous.

I can't focus on a 2" circle at 75 feet much less hit it 5 times!

Karn-sarn whippersnappers *mumble grumble*

 

[Martimus]

Some of the information presented on the suspected accuracy issues has been quite interesting.

Several months ago I picked up a M&P9 for a screaming deal at a local pawn shop (scared me that I could actually find a deal at this particular pawn show. In hindsight I'm starting to wonder if the screaming deal was offered for a reason?). Took it to the range and found that at 15 yards it was shooting a good 3-inches to the right of POA. Quadruple checked my grip, my stance, tried closing one eye, spent a couple hours with an instructor I know, etc. I probably tried every logical and illogical thing I could possible try to determine the cause. Tried alternating with another pistol but while the other pistol shot to POA, the M&P9 shot 3-inches to the right of POA.

I replaced the stock sights on the M&P which marginally improved things but I was still shooting to the right of POA. Out of curiousity and frustration, I ordered a replacement M&P9 barrel from Brownells. Not exactly what I wanted to be spending my limited savings on, but I needed to know what was going on. Installed the new barrel and went to the range. My M&P is now shooting at POA. Re-installed the old barrel in the M&P - 3-inches to the right of POA. Replaced the new barrel - shooting at POA.

While this experiment was by no means scientific and is certainly not conclusive, I suspect that I'm going to keep the new barrel in my M&P. In looking at the rifling of the old barrel I can't see anything out of the ordinary. That said I'm no gunsmith so I make no guarantees that I'd even know what to look for.