M&P 9mm accuracy issues?

[MtnBubba]

I agree. I would have to bite my lip, but I could, I suppose, live with 4" at 25. Its awful, but... I just want it as a means to put a lot of cheap rounds down range. I was hoping to have my cake and eat it too, since I like the feel of the M&P. I put Trijicon HD sights on it and the Apex sear and striker block, before I discovered it was a lemon. Fool me once, shame on me.

I think Apex is supposed to have the fitted barrel for sale any time now. I haven't kept up with it very closely, but that was the last I read.

I think the Navy uses a NRA B-19 Standard Pistol bull at 25 yards to qualify. Don't quote me on that. However, with my M&P9, I'm not sure it would be possible to qualify marksman, let alone expert.

 

[M29since14]

Mtnbubba, in case you are interested, my 9L does not seem to like the shape of the Hornady XTP-HP bullets. I have had far better results with a rounded profile HP that more closely approximates the shape of the standard FMJ bullet. Accuracy invariably suffers when I use a load that has a truncated-cone shape bullet. The best factory load in my 9L so far has been the Federal 9BP.

 

[usaeagle]

I purchased an M&P 9mm, and have problems with it low and to the left. I have sent several thousand rounds through it since I have purchased it. I have no problem with the M&P 45, I have tried lots of different suggestions, but still experience the problem. I have tried a couple different lasers on the gun, but it looks like they don't line up either, so I am still not sure if it is just me or something with the gun.

Does someone know if a gunsmith could check for accuracy, and about how much this would cost me? I plan to ask at the local gun shop next time I go in, if they are not too busy... Thanks.

 

[M29since14]

You don't say how far your point of impact appears to be off from your point of aim and at what range. A POA-POI divergence could be a gun problem if it is too large. Take the usual steps of trying a couple different types of ammunition and having another experienced shooter test it to verify your results. If the conclusion is that you have a problem that is the sort of thing the factory will help you with. Give them a call if you need their help rather than taking it to a gunsmith.

 

[MP1SG]

Just put 150 rounds through my M&P 9mm (FS) Test fired 11/2012. Very VERY accurate very reliable Shot, all Aguilia 124 grain FMJ and 8 rounds of Speer GDHP 124+P. At 7 yds was able to cloverleaft a 10 round magazine (Mass compliant gun with the 10# trigger) at 25 yds was able to keep all 10 rounds 4inches and under. NO bench rest <the weapon is more than accurate and real soft shooter.
thanks
1SG
Out

 

[msg73]

The barrel fit is too loose so you cannot improve accuracy without going to a fitted barrel.


C4

Is there any way to tell if the barrel fit is too loose by checking/testing an empty gun? For example, stick a dowel in the barrel and see if it wiggles?

 

[125JHP]

The interior of the barrel is not the problem, as I understand it, the accuracy issue is with the area performing the exterior lockup of the barrel to the slide. This is primarily done by a protruding hood & slide slot at the top rear of the barrel/chamber (where the daytime chamber check hole is).

Side to side tolerance (slop) is what your looking for. Due to the clearance and angles it is hard to measure. You might be able to get a general idea with thin tapered feeler gauges. Also checking the min-max gap the barrel will move horizontally toward the left slide face might also give some idea. This horizontal movement is what fitted barrels can help reduce. Due to manufacturing tolerances, some guns will be much better than others, thus seem more accurate.

The other issue is called early unlocking - where the barrel starts moving downward before the bullet has exited the barrel - this is controlled by the cam slot on the bottom of the barrel and the part in the frame it fits into. Can't do much about this without redesigning the entire barrel, which has been mentioned previously. This will affect vertical impact.

Combined, the issues seem to produce a shotgun pattern for most users who have the problem. Although 4" at 25yd may seem acceptable to some for "combat accuracy", the commercial handgun standard I've always been used to seeing is 2.5" at 25yds or 1" at 10yds.

 

[M29since14]

...Although 4" at 25yd may seem acceptable to some for "combat accuracy", the commercial handgun standard I've always been used to seeing is 2.5" at 25yds or 1" at 10yds.

I do not know if those figures actually represent some sort of "commercial handgun standard" - I don't recall ever seeing it published - but that is exactly what my hobbyist friends and I have used as a gage since the beginning of recorded time, in terms of a service pistol. For a target pistol, we expected 3-inches at 50-yards. Realistically speaking, we found very few autoloaders that met our expectations while high-quality revolvers were able to do so routinely. For the most part, autoloaders these days do seem to be better than they were.

 

[Cavere]

Where do most of you line up your sights? I find that when I center the dots I shoot a little high. Then again it could be me since I also shoot a bit left.

 

[125JHP]

M29.... I qualified that because a military or police service may have other requirements, so I specified a commercial gun as one that you or I could buy at the retail level.

The local PD might be perfectly happy with 4" at 25yds but most of the magazine testing and other published (non-target guns) reports I have read over the years seem to look for that 2 1/2" or better. Like you it's the standard I have heard from the 60's and don't know where exactly it came from.

I also agree that if we are talking a gun sold for target accuracy or a custom job that is significantly more money, then we should expect a greater degree of precision and that is a whole different gun than what we are talking about here.

As I mentioned previously, my XD's (6 of em, out of the box with no modifications) dramatically outperform my M&P with every load I have tried, as do my various brands of 1911's. Maybe it's just me and the subtle differences in the M&P trigger/grip or some other system from the others but I don't think so. I came to the conclusion I couldn't rely on any current M&P to deliver what I consider acceptable accuracy without the likelihood of a lot of aftermarket expenses, so I bought XD's instead and so far have been happy. YMMV.

 

[2tango2]

Happy with my M&P 9s accuracy. Hits a nice grouping center of mass on the outline of a perp on the target That's what it is for at least in my case. Plus it fits perfectly and feels great in my grip. Very happy with it over any of my Glocks

 

[Justin69]

I am very happy with the performance of my fs m&p 9mm. Have had it bout a year & half & it seems that my accuracy keeps getting better as the gun ages (if that makes sense).
Dont regret buying it at all!!

 

[blujax01]

...
As to barrel makers and other add ons, these companies get rich by taking advantage of the fact thier touted improvements cannot objectively be verified but most when adding these improvments subjectively and psychologically perceive an improvement. ...

Yep, same as golf club companies. Before I came to my senses and quit the game I knew this guy who would spend $300 for a new driver instead of $100 on lessons. After the newness of the driver wore off, he went back to his old habits and resumed shanking it into never-never land...

 

[M29since14]

Back before Christmas I had decided to just set my current M&P 9mm aside and wait for a better day (i.e., a new barrel). Recently I have had the opportunity to shoot a brand-new M&P 9 full-size model a bit and compare it to my older M&P9L.

The new gun had the usual incredibly terrible M&P trigger that I have so much trouble with, but this one seemed to improve quickly. I could notice considerable improvement after a little dry-firing and the first 100-rounds.

The new gun was ammunition finicky, just like my 9L. It seems to like the same handload my 9L likes, and is doesn't like the same ammunition the 9L doesn't like. The good thing is that the new gun seems to be more consistent and is not so liable to throw a wild shot or flyer as is the older gun.

The new barrel seems to fit up about like the barrel fits in my 9L, but internally it is different. It has a faster twist rate (I didn't try to measure either one) and the appearance of the rifling is different. The rifling in the new barrel seems to be both sharper and deeper. Interior finish of both the lands and grooves seems to be about the same, possibly the barrel in my 9L being a bit smoother, but it has been fired more, too. The design of the leade or transition at the front of the chamber looks similar in both barrels, both in length and angle, but I really didn't spend a lot of time looking at that. I was paying more attention to the rifling.

The best group I shot with the new gun was around 3-1/4" at 25-yds from a rest (5-rounds). Since I only had my handloads with me when the opportunity came along to shoot the new gun, next week I have scheduled a re-match, so to speak, in order to be able to run a few factory loads through it and see how it likes them.

Looking at one older gun and one new one really doesn't prove much of anything, but it does appear S&W is fiddling around with barrel specifications, possibly to address accuracy complaints - or maybe just to provide the faster twist-rate that apparently aids function of the modern, high-performance JHP loads. Who knows which?

 

[S. Kelly]

Well, I took the plunge, going to try a used one out. Figured the worst that can happen is that it sucks and just ship it back to S&W.

 

[mrlizzzard]

I am crushed.I am new to pistol shooting but a long time shooter,trap,clays hunting rifles.Wound up with lung cancer and decided if I wasn't able to those things I could shoot and learn pistol skills.

I started in Nov. with a Tristar C100 and for $300 it was accurate and felt fine to me but It was made in Turkey and I try to buy American sooooooooo I purchased a SR9 and shot it well.Not quite as well as the Tri but well enough to keep.That was until light hits and FTFeeds happened.

As I can only afford 1 gun I thought why not get an M&P9 to go with my M&P22 and be done with it.So I scraped up the cash and marveled at the feel of the M&P and took it to the range.I have not had a happy day in 3 weeks.This pistol shoots to my left and all over the paper on height.I can not hold a 4 inch group at 10yds.

I have changed ammo.cleaned and recleaned got new glasses and it's the same old thing.One good hole and two bad ones.

Wishing to shoot some event competitively what the heck do I do?

thanks for listening,
mrlizzzard

 

[Jonny Cannon]

Are you right-handed? Where is your finger on the trigger? The pad, or the crook where it bends. This will affect where the rounds are going, every time.

Cannon

 

[M29since14]

Wishing to shoot some event competitively what the heck do I do?

Mrlizzard, you need to buy your pistol depending on the type of competitive event you plan on attending. An M&P is not a competition pistol for any venue where accuracy is at a premium. What we are talking about here is the level of accuracy we expect in a service-type pistol. The debate is whether the M&Ps are providing that, and as you can see, we even have some debate about whether we should be talking about 2.5", 3"-4", approx. 4", 4"x4" (Colt's standard, BTW, for the new Marine Corps' 1911) - or just what?

Sorry you are having so much trouble with your M&P but it does sound like you are not quite used to its trigger just yet. BBS1 pointed out that the triggers on the striker-fired guns are a different kettle of fish for those of us who have been shooting since shortly after the last ice age. Given your background - and mine - he may have a point.

Hope you get things straightened out. If in doubt, get a couple different, experienced shooters to try you gun and see what they can do.

 

[mrlizzzard]

thanks for replies.I try to keep trigger between back of nail and first joint.What 9mm would be good for competition or a .22 even.I do like my M&P.22 and it is accurate.

mrlizzzard

 

[M29since14]

Mrlizzzard, have you done any dry-firing with your M&P9? If so, what do your sights do when the trigger breaks? Are you satisfied that the sights stay exactly where you want them when the gun "fires?" If you can't do it when dry-firing, it isn't likely to happen with live-fire. I don't know how many rounds you have through the M&P but you should find the trigger improves as you use the gun.

If you want a 9mm for informal target shooting (i.e., club-level bullseye or similar matches) you might look at a 1911. Para Ordnance seems to know how to make a 9mm 1911 shoot, if my LTC9 is any indication. That particular Para is not really a dedicated target model. They may make one? I am not familiar with their line.

SIG-Sauer makes some very nice 9mm target pistols. They are a bit expensive. You might look around for an S&W 952 - also expensive. It all depends on the level of accuracy you want and what you intend to do with the pistol.