m&p Failure's

[SWMod10]

62,000 rounds is not a tremendous amount, especially when the end result was a cracked slide. Worn out a little sure, but actual metal failure? And S&W didn't offer to replace it?

Hickok45 had an M&P slide crack live on Youtube.

I don't have anything against M&Ps, but I'm wondering if they will have a higher percentage of slide failures than other polymer pistols over the next couple decades as people own and shoot them longer.

Did you even read the test?

S&W looked it over and said go ahead see what happens...then S&W's lawyers said no way.

PT and the S&W guys wanted to continue, but they could not.

So they send the gun back so that S&W could look at it and see what needed to be done to improve any deficiencies.

I would say that 62,000 rounds in less than a year was damn good for that pistol, cracked slide and all, considering that 99% of most shooters will not shoot 62,000 rounds-total-in a lifetime.

 

[slammr]

If you use crappy ammo you will experience some stovepipe, FTF and FTE. I had that experience with my M&P9c with Monarch (Russian) ammo. Using Remington or Winchestor, etc., no problems.

 

[Dragon88]

62,000 rounds is certainly a large amount. But I'm sorry, I don't see a cracked slide after 62k impressive. Having to replace springs and the barrel, absolutely. But not a slide failure. For an M&P shared by a family of high volume shooters, they might be looking at a failed firearm after only a few years. At the least they will be sending it in for service. If the pistol was bought used, they will be looking at replacing a $500 firearm. I expect more out of polymer wonders made by any manufacturer.

Again, I have nothing against M&Ps and I think they are good firearms. But these instances of cracked slides have planted a seed of doubt in my opinion of their longevity.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Ouch.... 62000 rounds, at one visit per week, comes out to about 1200 rounds/visit.

That could hurt....

Still, the gun should be able to take that. While I agree with the folks who said "send it back" instead of fire it some more, the pics I saw indicate that it probably would have been safe enough. The bullet is contained in the barrel, and the barrel and breech probably are still locked up well enough. The slide staying on the frame may be an interesting question, but there probably is enough contact to hold things together.

My own experience - I tend to shoot just a few magazines worth through several guns per (weekly) range visit - is more like 50 rounds per week, or about 2,500 a year. Small potatoes v.s. 62,000, but I doubt if I'll wear it out.

I've mentioned elsewhere that I used to be in the plastics business. Part of the time (early 60's, actually) was in QC, and I got to play with some interesting "engineering" plastics. Presuming S&W picked the right one, you probably could make the barrels out of it.... (Or at least support a lightweight metal rifled portion.) They can warp if thermally abused (which is likely), or if the wrong material is chosen, but generally can hold up fairly well.

Still, the designer, and a little bit of luck, is necessary to get maximum results. But often the result is some laughably flimsy looking components can usually do the job.

And you can self-hinge, self-lubricate, and all kinds of other fun things, too.

I wonder what would happen if you could come up with an all-plastic barrel? Betcha the Brady's would have a fit....

Regards,

 

[SWMod10]

But these instances of cracked slides have planted a seed of doubt in my opinion of their longevity.

Based on that, you would have never bought any of the guns that I have seen fail, that were new out of the box. With way less rounds through than that M&P.

I have seen a hammer on a $900 HK USP follow the slide in the first magazine. I have seen 2 brand new Sigs malfunction mag after mag, a recoil spring assembly on a Glock sheared off the base and lock up on it 5th magazine.


62,000rds and a cracked slide in a part of the slide that did not impact the SAFE operation of the M&P to me is impressive.

I would bet, that there is not a person reading this thread, me included, that has the time to run 62,000 rounds through a gun in a LIFETIME, let alone in a year.

I know IPSC shooters that complete every weekend that only shoot 12,000-15,000 a year.

Those guys at PT.com do it for a living, and the M&P impressed them and that says something to me.

 

[blujax01]

I would bet, that there is not a person reading this thread, me included, that has the time to run 62,000 rounds through a gun in a LIFETIME, let alone in a year.

My thoughts exactly. And if by some chance I were to run 50 rounds per week - every week without fail - I would be asking for a replacement in about 24 years.

By then I'll be 80 and really, really cranky. I pity the fool who answers that phone call.

 

[OKFC05]

I would bet, that there is not a person reading this thread, me included, that has the time to run 62,000 rounds through a gun in a LIFETIME, let alone in a year.

You lose.
I've slowed down my competition shooting a lot in the last couple of years, but when I was shooting a club match (or two) every weekend and 6 or more major sanctioned USPSA and IDPA matches a year, with as much practice during the week as I could manage, I was shooting well over 25,000 rounds a year. That's only 500 rounds a week.
At USPSA competition speeds, a box of ammo goes downrange in only a few seconds. Total shooting time for a 100-round IDPA match is only 2 or 3 minutes per shooter.

The sponsored masters who shoot for a living easily top 60,000 rounds a year. One friend who is sponsored shot over 62,000 recorded rounds through one custom 2011 in the year he finally made master in both USPSA and IDPA, shooting Blazer factory loads only. His gun had only one failure, in the last match of the year at GA state IDPA championships. It's easy to keep track of rounds fired when all you have to do is count the empty factory cases.

According to one survey taken by Colt, the average non-competitive shooter shoots only a few dozen up to a few hundred rounds per year, as opposed to competitive shooters who range from a few thousand rounds to tens of thousands.

As an aside, that's why some brands and models are seldom seen in competition; some guns just aren't made for the long haul.
The M&P Smiths are now only second in numbers to the Glocks in IDPA/SSP, and are gaining in popularity. Serious competitors give a gun a workout that few non-competitors can imagine.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

I was in a very large gun shop in Pa several year ago. They had a second gen Colt SAA with a hefty price tag. I used to collect second gen Colts and ask the owner about this gun. He started telling me how wonderful the second gen Colts were....not like the current guns that have Uberti produced frames, etc. He was talking about the short run of Colt Cowboys of course. He owns a large gun shop and either had no idea what he was talking about or thought he was talking to an idiot. Beware of info obtained in a gun shop. Just because they are there doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

 

[M&P.40caliber]

I have an M&P9 FS, M&P9c and a M&P45 FS and shoot them very often and yet to have a failure of any kind. Opinions are like ............. everyone has one.

and they all stink!

 

[Dragon88]

I have seen a hammer on a $900 HK USP follow the slide in the first magazine. I have seen 2 brand new Sigs malfunction mag after mag, a recoil spring assembly on a Glock sheared off the base and lock up on it 5th magazine.

I don't buy HKs or Sigs. Sig just recently got thrown out of the ATF trials due to malfunctions. And the recoil spring assembly on that Glock can be replaced in 10 seconds with a $7 part. Can you repair or replace a cracked slide in 10 seconds? Oh and what's that going to cost again?

 

[uslaw]

S&W M&P 45

Well i just bought my first automatic handgun, a Smith&Wesson M&P 45. I have read the manual front to back and fully have a good understanding of the weapon. Hear is the issue with it, i load up the magazine and shoot off one round, two rounds, and then the trigger sticks, it stays locked back until i take my finger and push it from the back of the trigger to reset it back to it's normal position, it also has loaded a live round in the chamber. I then pull the trigger several times, it still wont fire. I then drop the magazine and eject the live round. Slap in a magazine and do it again same problem. I dissembled the gun and looked over every visible internal part-nothing looked bent or out of place. I have lubricated the seven points of the gun they show in the manual. I have many other weapons and have worked in a machine shop for years. I looked over the internals of this weapon and i am not impressed with the trigger system, the parts are stamped out of tin cans. I have looked at all the youtube videos on the apex trigger and the PDF file below.
http://www.burwellguns.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf

So i am at a place that i don"t even trust the gun at this point, should i send it back to the factory and get it fixed or send it back permanently and look for other options. So reading through this thread-i am glad that the M&P you have work, mine does not. I am open for suggestion. Thanks.

 

[SMMAssociates]

uslaw:

Ouch....

Sounds like the dreaded "dead trigger" issue....

Since you just bought it, a return probably would be in order. S&W's CS should be able to take care of you.

However, if you're impatient, and think you can handle the job, follow Apex's or Burwell's instructions to remove the sear block and the sear itself. Clean and lubricate the sear, spring, and plunger.

Be careful - when removing the sear block, the sear pin can get lost, as can the ejector (in some models), and when removing the sear itself, the little spring and plunger under it tend to go flying....

Before you try to get the sear and sear block out of the gun, though, have a look at the trigger bar. Is it bent? There's a "U"-shaped loop at the sear end that should be fairly tight, and the remaining straight portion should be straight.... Also, see if the sear works with the slide off the gun. With the slide off, and "muzzle" end pointing away from you, pull the trigger bar gently to the right. The sear should pop up - the rear of the sear should stick up in the air a few thousandths - visibly proud.... When you let the trigger bar return to it's normal location, operate the trigger. The sear should drop to nearly flush with the rest of the block. Try this a few times. If it still works reliably, you could still have the dead trigger, but I think I'd put things back together and let S&W work on it unless you're into flying springs .... (This test should eliminate crud & lubrication issues.) If you're really a glutton for punishment, disassemble the entire sear block and throw everything into an ultrasonic cleaner. Lubricate things later - just about everything should get a coat of something really light, with the various "joints" (like the sear pin) a bit wetter.

You may have the "MA-Compliant" sear spring and plunger in your new gun. Supposedly S&W started slipstreaming (i.e., no publicity) those into new production in October, but they're also apparently using up old stock and only updating guns where a problem is noted.

(There's really no way to tell which one you have without taking the sear out, unless you're in Massachusetts.... If I understand correctly, every M&P sold there has to have it. This gives a very heavy trigger, but the Burwell or Apex mods will fix that.)

It's also possible that the drop safety plunger (that's the round thing that Burwell and Apex round off/replace in the slide) is not working. You can check that easily from the underside of the slide. The striker should easily move forward about a quarter inch when the plunger is depressed, and that should take almost no pressure on the plunger.

If you can get the striker out, you might want to be sure that it's clean and lubricated, as is the tube. Disassembly is about the same as the Glock. A stuck striker can also cause some of these problems.

I don't claim to be a competent gunsmith - just good enough to get the grips back on a 1911 on the right sides - but I remember a lot of what I see here, and type fast....

Some of this may be useful. My vote is "just dirty" for a new gun.

Regards,

 

[turbo38gn]

Well i just bought my first automatic handgun, a Smith&Wesson M&P 45. I have read the manual front to back and fully have a good understanding of the weapon. Hear is the issue with it, i load up the magazine and shoot off one round, two rounds, and then the trigger sticks, it stays locked back until i take my finger and push it from the back of the trigger to reset it back to it's normal position, it also has loaded a live round in the chamber. I then pull the trigger several times, it still wont fire. I then drop the magazine and eject the live round. Slap in a magazine and do it again same problem. I dissembled the gun and looked over every visible internal part-nothing looked bent or out of place. I have lubricated the seven points of the gun they show in the manual. I have many other weapons and have worked in a machine shop for years. I looked over the internals of this weapon and i am not impressed with the trigger system, the parts are stamped out of tin cans. I have looked at all the youtube videos on the apex trigger and the PDF file below.
http://www.burwellguns.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf

So i am at a place that i don"t even trust the gun at this point, should i send it back to the factory and get it fixed or send it back permanently and look for other options. So reading through this thread-i am glad that the M&P you have work, mine does not. I am open for suggestion. Thanks.

Congrats on your new purchase, you have chosen an excellent weapon, sorry to hear of your problem though. Not sure what is wrong, but something doesn't seem right no doubt. Did you do anythihng at all to the gun before firing it. Take down to clean, make some mods to anything.. just doesn't seem right to misfire out of the box when they are all fired from the factory... I just picked up my 4th M&P friday, installed a new sear yesterday and plan on shooting it tonite at S&W shooting range, I don't expect anything unusual other than another great shooting gun from Smith.. but then ya never know... I've installed Apex kits in all of my guns. I had one with a dead trigger after install, knew it was wrong as soon as I assembled it. Figured it out very quickly on inspection... I simply had to open up the rod that contacts the sear and it was fine. What I found interesting was I could actually change the location of trigger to sear contact depending on how much I opened that rod... anyways, I love the construction of my guns, very simple to understand how everything functions and pretty simple to work on... good luck, let us know whats going on and if we can help..

 

[SWMod10]

You lose.
I've slowed down my competition shooting a lot in the last couple of years, but when I was shooting a club match (or two) every weekend and 6 or more major sanctioned USPSA and IDPA matches a year, with as much practice during the week as I could manage, I was shooting well over 25,000 rounds a year. That's only 500 rounds a week.
At USPSA competition speeds, a box of ammo goes downrange in only a few seconds. Total shooting time for a 100-round IDPA match is only 2 or 3 minutes per shooter.

The sponsored masters who shoot for a living easily top 60,000 rounds a year. One friend who is sponsored shot over 62,000 recorded rounds through one custom 2011 in the year he finally made master in both USPSA and IDPA, shooting Blazer factory loads only. His gun had only one failure, in the last match of the year at GA state IDPA championships. It's easy to keep track of rounds fired when all you have to do is count the empty factory cases.

According to one survey taken by Colt, the average non-competitive shooter shoots only a few dozen up to a few hundred rounds per year, as opposed to competitive shooters who range from a few thousand rounds to tens of thousands.

As an aside, that's why some brands and models are seldom seen in competition; some guns just aren't made for the long haul.
The M&P Smiths are now only second in numbers to the Glocks in IDPA/SSP, and are gaining in popularity. Serious competitors give a gun a workout that few non-competitors can imagine.

Oh boy, I lose!

Ok,I give in you are the one that will break the gun.

Most gun owners, will not EVER get to that round count.

If you complete, then yea, duh, you will shoot more than us peasants.

 

[SWMod10]

I don't buy HKs or Sigs. Sig just recently got thrown out of the ATF trials due to malfunctions. And the recoil spring assembly on that Glock can be replaced in 10 seconds with a $7 part. Can you repair or replace a cracked slide in 10 seconds? Oh and what's that going to cost again?

Nope I cannot repair that, but I also have other pistols, so's not like I will be out of commission.

The cost..I dunno, call S&W and ask them what it costs them to to replace it under warranty.

They do that you know, what with the lifetime warranty.

 

[uslaw]

Ok, as my son would say "you are a beast" THANK YOU for your reply. I called S&W today and they are sending me a fed-ex box to ship it back to them. I got a little heavy on them, just wanted to vent a little. From the conversation with support they will handle it. Once again THX.

 

[pea shooter]

I buy my guns on the companies reputation and customer service that why I own S&W(M&P 15 22,617 and 638) a Ruger SR9C,and a henry H001T. I beleive in buying american

 

[uslaw]

Thanks for all of you that replied, I have sent my M&P45 back to Smith&Wesson should arrive on 2/21/11, i will keep you posted on the process of repair.

 

[EPWrangler]

After I shot the center out of the target in my CHL qualification my instructor put his fist in the hole and declared, "Old men rock!" My reply was I liked my new MP9 I had bought 2 days before. Then we retreated to the clubhouse out of the dust storm. My MP9 disappointed a lot of people who didn't outshoot it yesterday.

 

[falrifles]

My son carries a S&W M&P compact 9mm. Great shooting gun. No issues in three years. A friend of mine is an Iowa Sheriff. He authorizes the M&Ps as well as some other good pistols. His son carries the M&P .40c. The Iowa Highway Patrol issues the .40 cal M&P after exhaustive testing I'm sure. I have not heard of any issues with this gun, only praise. I have heard of people playing with the triggers. They do this to all guns. Not recomended when used for self defense purposes. Your gun will be taken by the police after the shooting. If a law suit develops as a result of your actions, the other side can cry foul if you alter the trigger. My son's trigger pull on his M&P 9c is very nice as it comes.