M&P SHIELD 0.40 CALIBER MAGAZINE DROP PROBLEM POLL

[TMAXXII]

Please, Please, Please,
Tell us (me) that this was a typo,
and that you really meant the .40 S&W not 9 mm are dropping mags ?
Please ?

I think he meant .40 not the 9mm. I have a 9mm and so do a number of friends at the gun range that have the 9mm and no mag drops.

 

[robkarrob]

After my written complaint to S&W's top brass, I have a October dated letter from S&W's legal counsel, and they acknowledged what they called a "minor" mag drop issue. They called it a "fit issue". This letter went on to say that their engineers have now made improvements to the Shields from "field returns" which will " enhance the overall fit of the magazine well and magazine catch".

So for those of you that think it is an operator issue, you are WRONG. If you follow these threads, you will find that the vast majority of the mag drop issues are with the Shield 40. However it is documented that some Shield 9mm owners have also had the mag drop issue.

The known issue is that "some" Shields have excessive side to side play with the magazines inserted into the mag well. In the act of firing the gun the magazine catch fails to hold the magazine in, and the magazine falls out. S&W wants to call it a minor issue, but who really knows what that number really is? Is it 100, 1000, or 10,000? Who really knows, other than S&W, and you know they are not going to release the figures. I asked S&W what is the final fix for the mag drop issue and did not get an answer. We do know the "dimpled/bumps" on the magazines was one fix. Others think they have had the magazine catch replaced, but are not sure.

Even though S&W's letter to me stated that they had "enhanced the overall fit", people buying Shield 40's with the fired casing date of middle October and later, are still having mag drop issues. So it is not totally fixed. I find it unbelievable that a company the size of S&W has not got on top of this issue. They are still selling defectives guns after five months of fixing defective Shields.

Yes my Shield 40, which I purchased in late May, had the mag drop issue. S&W had me send the gun in for repair. They had my gun for seven weeks. They did nothing internally with my Shield, but returned the gun with the dimpled mags. This did fix my mag drop problem.

Bob

 

[TMAXXII]

After my written complaint to S&W's top brass, I have a October dated letter from S&W's legal counsel, and they acknowledged what they called a "minor" mag drop issue. They called it a "fit issue". This letter went on to say that their engineers have now made improvements to the Shields from "field returns" which will " enhance the overall fit of the magazine well and magazine catch".

So for those of you that think it is an operator issue, you are WRONG. If you follow these threads, you will find that the vast majority of the mag drop issues are with the Shield 40. However it is documented that some Shield 9mm owners have also had the mag drop issue.

The known issue is that "some" Shields have excessive side to side play with the magazines inserted into the mag well. In the act of firing the gun the magazine catch fails to hold the magazine in, and the magazine falls out. S&W wants to call it a minor issue, but who really knows what that number really is? Is it 100, 1000, or 10,000? Who really knows, other than S&W, and you know they are not going to release the figures. I asked S&W what is the final fix for the mag drop issue and did not get an answer. We do know the "dimpled/bumps" on the magazines was one fix. Others think they have had the magazine catch replaced, but are not sure.

Even though S&W's letter to me stated that they had "enhanced the overall fit", people buying Shield 40's with the fired casing date of middle October and later, are still having mag drop issues. So it is not totally fixed. I find it unbelievable that a company the size of S&W has not got on top of this issue. They are still selling defectives guns after five months of fixing defective Shields.

Yes my Shield 40, which I purchased in late May, had the mag drop issue. S&W had me send the gun in for repair. They had my gun for seven weeks. They did nothing internally with my Shield, but returned the gun with the dimpled mags. This did fix my mag drop problem.

Bob

Bob, thank you for sharing your letter with us. I find it is interesting that it came from their legal department. We only use our legal department when we are concerned that an issue is going to have legal ramifications. I know that this forum only has a small number of members that have the Shield .40, just think how many other owners out there are having this problem. According S&W they ship 150 Shields per day that a lot of guns and they aren't sitting in gun shops. It is my opinion S&W is bracing themselves for a Class Action Lawsuit. I surfed the web, but can not find anyone saying they were injuried by this problem. Have you? However, if someone is carrying the Shield as a CCW and has to use it to defend themself and is shot because of the mag drop. This will have S&W in court in a heart beat and knowing attorneys (my wife works from 75 of them) they will jump on the band wagon if they see dollar signs because of this problem.

You also mentioned that the 9mm has the same problem, can you steer me in the direction where you found this information? I bought my Shields based on reviews saying how great the Shield 9mm was. Thanks again for sharing your reply.

 

[robkarrob]

TMAXXll

In quotations is a small part of my full page letter I sent to all S&W Executives in late August, 2012:

"What concerns all the loyal S&W owners is why have you have not contacted those Shield owners that may be affected with this problem. S&W is aware of a problem but has not notified those affected owners of the problem. This could subject your company to legal liability if someone, in a SD situation, has to use their Shield and after the first shot the magazine falls out. Not only is this a possible legal liability, it has also has tarnished your reputation and questioned the reliability of the S&W line."

That is one reason I believe the reply was through S&W's legal counsel.

Regarding the 9mm drops, there have been several polling threads asking if you have experienced mags drops. Some asked for both the 9mm and 40 S&W. There were some 9mm shown as yes. Plus I have read in other threads, about the mags drops, that some 9mm owners have had the problem. I believe in this long thread, we are posting in, some 9mm owners have posted of having mag drop issues. I also use the much smaller "s-w pistol.com" forum, but can't remember if I have seen 9mm drops in that forum. I positively have read several posts in this forum of the 9mm's dropping the magazines. The vast majority has always been the 40's. I have been using this forum since May, and I never heard anything about the 9mm drops until around late August or early September. My forty dropped the short mag on the second round I fired through it. S&W has been aware of this issue since late May or earlier. I contacted them in late May.

I would love to fully post the 1 1/2 page, single spaced letter I got back from S&W. But the letter referenced legal notice about the privacy nature of the letter and the specific laws relating to that privacy.

No I am not aware of any specific incidents of the mag drop in a SD situation. But you can bet if it ever occurs, some attorney will find all these posts on this forum and use that as evidence in the lawsuit.

I don't know where you got the figure of 150 Shields per day. I read somewhere they are running their production line 24 hours a day and producing around 800 guns daily. Still that is not very many guns when there are over 50,000 FFL dealers in the USA.

Bob

 

[thebeatlesman]

I just received my shield40 back from SMITH cs after a second return. The first time they sent me new dimpled Mag's and that was it. The first time I fired it the Mag's both flush and extended both dropped. I emailed them again demanding a full refund. However they sent me a shipping label and told me that any gun that was returned a second time had to be evaluated by upper management. About five working days later I received the gun back from Smith. Looks like they refuse to give anyone a refund. Funny thing is that inside the box was two papers. One stated that the gun was inspected and was found to be in spec and needed no repairs. However a second paper said that the gun had an undersized mag catch and that it was replaced. Also they modified the Mag's a second time. They sent it back with my two old dimpled Mag's and a second extended mag was left in the gun. They said it was test fired with fifty rounds and is in spec. I shot fifty rounds thru it today with no issues. It seems to be ok but something is not on the up and up at Smith.

 

[robkarrob]

Good to hear your gun got fixed correctly and that you got it back so soon.

The fix I have always said was needed, was for the magazine catch made to extend deeper into the slot in the magazine . This would hold the mags in securely. The only disadvantage to this is that the mag release button would have to be pushed in a little further, to release the mag. This option would be preferred to the other option of having the mags dropping out unintentionally. The dimpled mags was (or is) a temporary fix, which, as in your case, may not work or last. With enough magazine inserts and ejections, the dimple/mag catch could wear down to the point the mags start dropping again. Then we will have to send the gun back to S&W for another fix.

When I first got my Shield 40, in late May, I noticed that the mag would drop out by pushing in the mag catch only about 1/32 inch. Then my first trip to the range and both mags dropped out most every shot. Just not enough catch hold with over 1/32 inch side to side mag play, inside the frame magazine well.

Bob

 

[Freedomson1776]

Over 500

Have shot over 500 rounds through my new M&P Shield 40 including 40 rounds of Winchester 165gr JHP critical duty with no mag drops or failure to feed with the critical duty which I have seen some people say they have had. The last 400 rounds including the hollow points where through a dirty gun so I could see if there was a feed problem with the critical duty. Worked like a charm.

My serial number starts with HAD and was fired on 9-27-12.

 

[Freedomson1776]

Over 500

Have shot over 500 rounds through my new M&P Shield 40 including 40 rounds of Winchester 165gr JHP critical duty with no mag drops or failure to feed with the critical duty which I have seen some people say they have had. The last 400 rounds including the hollow points where through a dirty gun so I could see if there was a feed problem with the critical duty. Worked like a charm.

My serial number starts with HAD and was fired on 9-27-12.

 

[Dean1818]

My 40 shield contunues to be error free

 

[Repli-can't]

Seems to be fixed

I got my Shield .40 (DXY****) back from S&W today. They:
"replaced pins" (mine was missing pivot pin on sear deactivation lever),
"replaced rear sight" (mine was consistently shooting left by two people shooting),
"adjust trigger pull" (I measured mine at 8.5 lbs+/-... Now measuring 7.5 lbs +/-). Since spec is 6.5 lbs +/- I guess my only option is to install an Apex,
"replace mag" (I was experiencing mag drop on the extended mag. I put pencil marks on both mags but not on ones returned to me. Since the extended mag still has the Talon grip still on the mag that I installed I'm guessing that one didn't get replaced. BOTH mags, however, have been "dimpled")
"range tested/meets spec". (Note spec of trigger pull vs. actual. I guess "+/-" is a bigger variance than I would expect).

I'll be going to the range on Saturday with the gun. If the accuracy is within my usual (O.K.) shooting ability AND I get no more mag drops then GREAT. If any further issues the I will be looking for a buyer. Sorry in advance for all of you S&W fans but when is Glock going to make a >1" thick (sub)compact single stack?

I put 100+ rounds through my returned Shield .40 today with no dropped mags or any other issues. Definitely good news to me. I did notice (just like before the repair) that once you have shot the first two mags they get very loose compared to when the gun is cold. Seems not to matter now...

It seems to be more accurate than before the repair so another positive. (I am not as accurate with the Shield as I am with my G23 gen4 but I am a new-ish shooter. It took me a number of visits to the range to get comfortable with the Glock when I first got it. "Practice makes perfect").

Looks like I'll keep it and order the Apex trigger and night sights, too!

 

[DocSunShine]

I modified the mag myself and have had no problem after 400 rounds. However, I don't like the extended mags anyways and purchased two more 6 round mags. I use the extended at the range only, I still do not trust it. I was carrying a Glock 27 with no pinky rest, so I taught myself to use three fingers. I agree S&W needs to come forward and put out general recall. Has anyone else had to modify their feed ramp on the barrel? Next time you go to the range shoot some HST through it. The barrel ramp end is extremely sharp and digs into the head of the bullet. I switched to Talons and rounded off the ramp. I will be trying some HSTs again when I go back to the range. Anyone else had problems with certain ammo?

My 180grain HST's fed flawless through the shield, I tested them +1 loaded with both mags. I ran 45 rounds of HST through the gun with no problem.

 

[robkarrob]

I do not think the drops are related to different ammo. Mine dropped with low power target ammo. If the recoil from low power ammo will cause the drop, then high power ammo would more easily cause drops. It seems the recoil and lack of catch grip causes the drops. It also could be a slight flex in the frame.

It is a manufacturing tolerance problem. If it was a design problem, most all 40's would be dropping the mags. Since that is not the case, S&W's tolerances are not consistant and causing the drops. Those Shields that were manufactured to the proper tolerances, do not drop the magazine. The guns that drop the magazines have over spec tolerances. The dimpled mags bring the fit of the magazine to the magazine catch within the correct specifications, and prevent the drops.

Bob

 

[Mooseburger]

Mine shoots crooked....

I've had mine for about 4 months and put at least 500 rounds through it. Serial beginning DXTxxxx.

I don't have the magazine drop issue but the mag is loose in the gun and I only use the extended clips as I have large hands and like my pinky to have a grip. So of the three extended clips I have they all have a significant gap between the spacer and the bottom of the gun.

When I first got it I didn't rack the round hard by pulling back and releasing, instead I just let it slide close by pulling down on the catch. The rounds would jam on the ramp just about every time until I put my other hand under the clip and fully seated the mag. So I asked someone at the range and was instructed that the proper way to load the gun was to pull back hard on the slide and release. OK, never did that with my XDm or PX4 but OK so going forward that never happened again.

This is my first small handgun so I always thought 2 inches left of the bullseye and about 1/2 inch low was just me pushing/flinching but when I went back to the range and had the gunsmith adjust the back sight to where I was on target the rear site is hanging off the right side of the gun.

I then had the gunsmith run 14 rounds through it to confirm it was the gun and not me..... and of 7 rounds he had 2 on the bullseye even with support from the bench.

So I emailed S&W this past Wednesday (they didn't answer the phone, most likely because of the holiday). I sent them several pictures of the sights being all cockeyed and asked what they can do for me....

So now that I've seen this thread I'm going to call on Monday and ask what the turnaround time is for fixing mine.

With all that I'm reading I don't have much confidence. I actually stumbled across this thread as I was researching a full sized M&P but given what I've read about them also I have lost all confidence.

Maybe I'll just sell it and get something else..... really like the feel of this gun but who wants all the issues.

 

[WR Moore]

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but since tolerances were brought up, a few words from someone with manufacturing experience.

First, in making any part there is a nominal dimension and a tolerance. Where there is no specified tolerance, there are industry accepted standard tolerances, which vary by the size of the nominal dimension. As a rule, holes can be oversized, but not undersize. Parts that fit in holes can be undersized, but not oversize. And yes, tolerance stack: where extremes get mated, can cause problems.

Way back when, a respected maker of single action pistols had issues with cylinder centerpin holes in the frame that were as much as 0.007" oversize. When mated with a centerpin 0.005" undersize, things could get real interesting if you were on the firing line next to someone with that setup. Accuracy also left something to be desired.

Many of the parts involved in modern pistols are molded. In large production work, there will be multiple molds involved in the production of any part. If one of those molds has a minor defect, a raft of parts can be created that are out of spec by some degree.

Why aren't they caught? Because the QC inspection patterns vary according to both production quantity and perceived need for dimensional integrity. Typical parts are inspected at 1 per 100 and may go as high as 1 per 1000. If the final product tests acceptably at the plant after assembly, it ships.

I will note that S&W obviously is making an effort to cope with actual issues, which is more than some other manufacturers do. I'll also note that virtually all products that reach the field get some product improvements as issues arise from a wider variety of end user. The specifically includes some firearms that are now considered as outstanding, trouble free products. The Garand (had to open the bolt with a boot heel in the rain-and yes, it had already been adopted and fielded) and the Remington 1100 (receivers cracking at the ejection port) are examples.

I'll also note that when dealing with the public, there is always a human factor. I once got an extremely good price on a very slightly used rifle (42 rounds) because the original owner didn't know that the sights could be adjusted.

BTW, we have several hundred M&P40s in service since early 2006 with only a couple (5?) of captured recoil springs that became uncaptured without affecting reliability. We have fitted product improved magazine catches and striker assemblies per individual need or at the designated service interval, whichever came first.

 

[robkarrob]

Yes I agree that all manufacturers have different tolerances. However when a problem arises, then any self respecting manufacturer would pay special attention to that product that has known issues with tolerances. I would think this should be especially true with a gun manufacturer.

S&W knows there is a mag drop issue. I am sure they know the cause. They could easily set up a specific test for the drop issue, to insure that no defective guns are shipped. This is not a recent or isolated incident. We are still reading posts from recent Shield purchasers that are having the drop issue. We are also reading posts of "fixed" guns being shipped back from S&W, that were not fixed and still are dropping the mags. S&W is not a "mom & pop" business. It is a large corporation with years of gun manufacturing experience.

My question is why has this magazine dropping issue not yet been fully resolved?

Bob

 

[cowboyfan628]

I called S&W about my magazine drop problem on the Shield 0.40 and the guy seemed clueless but after checking they will send me the replacement mag release part. Just curious how widespread the problem really is for this gun. Thought that I would take a poll on whether you have had a magazine drop problem on a factory new Shield 0.40?

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/279280-another-m-p-40-shield-mag-drop-problem.html

 

[CJWig]

RIP my little Shield 0.40 Caliber....... As the one who started this thread in July, I am saddened to say that I gave up my Shield 0.40 caliber after three failed repairs. First - replaced mag catch and still dropped mags. Second - dimpled mags and still dropped mags. Third - replaced frame and mag dropped solved, but jamming started every ten rounds or so and couldn't be resolved. Gun shop bought it back as a loss - good reason to buy guns at a local dealer who knows you. Lesson learned - don't buy new model guns. I wish everyone the best with their Shield 0.40 and thanks for following this thread. NOTE TO S&W - SHAME ON YOU FOR NOT RECALLING THIS DEFECTIVE WEAPON! This is a well documented problem and this thread shows up Google and other web searches and I am sure this thread has been copied just in case it "disappears" from this forum.

 

[VMaxSplat]

Sorry to hear you couldn't get things worked out. It is likely that yours was one of a small group of problem guns, not the norm.

My Shield 40 has been perfect so far. I'm planning to try 2 new extended mags today ($40 a pop, ouch!). Hopefully they will run 100%. The gun is a pint sized powerhouse.

 

[The_Unknown_Surfer]

RIP my little Shield 0.40 Caliber.......

My condolences. You fought the good fight.

 

[insomniac]

RIP my little Shield 0.40 Caliber.......

RIP little fella

no one can say that you didn't try.

let us all hope that your ornery pistol (and this thread) have caught the attention of its maker with the result being a better product in the future.

good on you.