M&P Shield Field Strip

[Rastoff]

...I find it much easier and quicker to...

These words preface just about every dangerous or deadly activity with a gun.

Does it REALLY matter?

Yes, it matters.

We're supposed to read the manual?

People love to make this sarcastic remark about manuals for anything. I'm not sure why, but for some reason reading the manual has become "not manly" in our society. The vast majority of problems with any device would either never have come up or are easily solved if owners would only read the manual.

If the sear deactivation lever is used it's impossible to have a negligent discharge. It's so easy to do I'm surprised that so many refuse to use it.

 

[NCW Ray]

These words preface just about every dangerous or deadly activity with a gun.

Yes, it matters.

People love to make this sarcastic remark about manuals for anything. I'm not sure why, but for some reason reading the manual has become "not manly" in our society. The vast majority of problems with any device would either never have come up or are easily solved if owners would only read the manual.

If the sear deactivation lever is used it's impossible to have a negligent discharge. It's so easy to do I'm surprised that so many refuse to use it.

Isn't that the truth! What I find funny, is when someone asks a question about the Slide Stop being so hard to release the slide with...then everyone piles on them, saying it's not a Slide Release, it's a Slide Lock, "READ THE MANUAL"! Reading the manual becomes very manly when they think it fits their agenda!

 

[WR Moore]

Before designing the M&P line S&W did a number of focus groups with potential major customers. They were quite clear that the phrase "pull the trigger" DID NOT BELONG IN FIELD STRIP INSTRUCTIONS! I quite agree. In fact, I'll go beyond Rastoff in noting that the phrase "There's an easier/quicker way....." ranks right up there with "Hold my beer and watch this...." as a prelude to a vast number of stupid and dangerous acts.

We can make all the snide comments we want about people who we believe have lesser levels of skill. The fact is that we all occasionally lose focus and there's no reason to unnecessarily increase risk.

The OP left out the category of "I always use the sear deactivation lever". That's me.

BTW, in the slide lock/release/stop debate, the prototype M&P came out for test and evaluation with a flat slide stop that was impossible to release with the thumb. The current slide stop/lock/release was optional. Dunno if this was from the focus groups or just a way to test the opinion (big in some circles) that that was the best way to design the item. We got one with the flat item and one with the optional item for T&E.

At any rate, it became readily apparent that the flat design made malfunction clearance blippin impossible and the flat design disappeared. Quite possibly, the manual was never updated. For those who have a fixation on how to release the slide, I have a test. Lock your slide back, stick your other/support hand in a pocket, simulating disability and find a way to release your slide.

 

[ScottS]

Yes, it matters.

Why? Why does it matter? Either way releases the sear and allows the slide to move forward off the frame.

 

[WR Moore]

Right up until the day you look at the "cleared" chamber and fail to see a round there.

 

[hdtwice]

Right up until the day you look at the "cleared" chamber and fail to see a round there.

So then we better not do dry fire practice either right?

I dry fire practice several guns on a very regular basis and if I can make sure of an empty chamber then, it would seem we can do the same during take down.

 

[ScottS]

Right up until the day you look at the "cleared" chamber and fail to see a round there.

So, IF there's a worn/broken extractor, AND IF you fail to see it, THEN there would be a problem.

OK. Got it.

 

[Rastoff]

Why? Why does it matter? Either way releases the sear and allows the slide to move forward off the frame.

I guess you missed this sentence in my last post:

If the sear deactivation lever is used it's impossible to have a negligent discharge. It's so easy to do I'm surprised that so many refuse to use it.

You followed with this:

So, IF there's a worn/broken extractor, AND IF you fail to see it, THEN there would be a problem.

OK. Got it.

No, you don't get it.

Yes, what you said is true. However, if those things fail and the sear disconnect was used, there wouldn't be a problem.

But that's not the real issue, at least not for me. The problem is complacency. Complacency gets us all sooner or later. This is why it matters. Don't let the arrogance of, "That will never happen to me" compound the chances of a complacent moment.

 

[ScottS]

I guess you missed this sentence in my last post:

You followed with this:No, you don't get it.

Yes, what you said is true. However, if those things fail and the sear disconnect was used, there wouldn't be a problem.

But that's not the real issue, at least not for me. The problem is complacency. Complacency gets us all sooner or later. This is why it matters. Don't let the arrogance of, "That will never happen to me" compound the chances of a complacent moment.

No, I get it. You manage risks your way, and I (and, by the looks of the polling, many people) manage risks my way. I am aware of, and will accept the nearly infinitesimal risk associated with a simultaneous human and mechanical malfunction and use the trigger to release the sear.

What you should have said was "Yes, it matters to me." Because it doesn't matter to others.

 

[WR Moore]

..... I am aware of, and will accept the nearly infinitesimal risk associated with a simultaneous human and mechanical malfunction and use the trigger to release the sear.

That attitude would have led to your separation (for willful failure to use a safety device) by my last, and longest, employer. You may class that behavior as a "nearly infinitesimal risk", but the human experience is that a negative result is far more common than you wish to believe and it's entirely preventable. But hey, it's your choice.

 

[Rastoff]

I am aware of, and will accept the ... risk associated with a ... human and [or] mechanical malfunction and use the trigger to release the sear.

As long as you understand the risk.

In any risk analysis we must weigh the benefit vs the consequence. In this case there is no benefit, but the consequence could be death. I guess I just don't understand why anyone would take that risk. And the probability of human error in this is not very low. We hear of multiple deaths every year from someone cleaning their gun.

 

[ScottS]

As long as you understand the risk.

In any risk analysis we must weigh the benefit vs the consequence. In this case there is no benefit, but the consequence could be death. I guess I just don't understand why anyone would take that risk. And the probability of human error in this is not very low. We hear of multiple deaths every year from someone cleaning their gun.

You said, "the consequences could be death." Yes, IF the extractor is broken/malfunctioning AND IF you fail to check the chamber AND IF you fail to point the gun in a safe direction AND IF you fail by pointing at a person AND IF you hit them AND IF...you get the idea. Run those probabilities...

Then you said "We hear of multiple deaths every year from someone cleaning their gun." Not in an M&P design, you don't.

The design on the M&P (and the XD, FNS, PPQ, etc.) varies in a significant way from the Glock, AKA the gun where we "hear of multiple deaths every year from someone cleaning their gun." You have to lock the slide back to flip the takedown lever, forcibly clearing the chamber. Unless there is a significant mechanical failure (extractor) AND a significant human failure (check the chamber), the "Glock accident" just can't occur.

It ain't a Glock.

But, hey, to each his own. My guess is you would be having the same "discussion" with the guys who remove the mag disconnect or change from thumb-safety to no safety.

 

[wnderr]

Just curious what is the most common method is within the group

Is that you, Dan?

 

[Rastoff]

You said, "the consequences could be death." ... Run those probabilities...

Yet it still happens. I'm not arguing that it can take a serious lapse of judgement or straight up stupidity, but it happens. Saying that it can't happen with an M&P is the same as saying, "It won't happen to me." Famous last words.

...the "Glock accident" just can't occur.

It ain't a Glock.

It's not a Glock or an XD or an M1 Garand, but the type is irrelevant. It only takes a moment's lapse in concentration, an interruption at the wrong moment, to get crossed up and make a lethal mistake when it comes to guns.

There is a way it can happen without any mechanical malfunction and I've seen it several times (not with an M&P). The right way to clear a gun is, while keeping the muzzle pointed in the safest direction and your finger clear of the trigger and outside the trigger guard:

1. Remove the ammunition source.
2. Eject the round in the chamber.
3. Inspect the chamber for a lack of brass (casing).

Several times I've been present when someone got 1&2 backward and they got a bang when they pulled the trigger instead of a click. They failed at step 3 because they saw a cartridge eject so they assumed the chamber was clear.

Further, there are lots of people who aren't muzzle conscious. We've all seen them. You know, that new shooter who's watched every John Wayne movie so, he knows how to shoot. He waves the muzzle around like he's an orchestra conductor and when someone mentions it he loudly proclaims, "Well, it's not loaded anyway."

Yes, I'm cynical when it comes to guns. I don't believe what anyone tells me about how safe they are until I witness it myself.

What really baffles me about this whole discussion is, why not use the sear disconnect lever? I mean, what is gained by not using it? There's no significant time savings and it's super easy to do so, why not use it?

 

[ScottS]

There is a way it can happen without any mechanical malfunction and I've seen it several times (not with an M&P). The right way to clear a gun is, while keeping the muzzle pointed in the safest direction and your finger clear of the trigger and outside the trigger guard:

1. Remove the ammunition source.
2. Eject the round in the chamber.
3. Inspect the chamber for a lack of brass (casing).

Several times I've been present when someone got 1&2 backward and they got a bang when they pulled the trigger instead of a click. They failed at step 3 because they saw a cartridge eject so they assumed the chamber was empty.

Can’t happen absent a mechanical function with an M&P, so why are you describing it? It’s not relevant to the discussion. Even if you dick up 1&2, you will be forced to eject the chambered round when you lock the slide to the rear in order to rotate the takedown lever.

Also, I’m not sure why I care what other people do in terms of muzzle discipline while cleaning?

The poll doesn’t say “What would I preach everyone to do?” It says “What do you do?”

To each his own, and be happy.

 

[kgpcr]

I just pull the trigger and I am done. very simple and easy to do

 

[Ohio AV8TOR]

Is that you, Dan?

Nope, not Dan