M&P Sport II MLOCK vs Ruger 556

[Ray1970]

I know you asked for an opinion between the S&W and the Ruger but I've always thought the Colt 6920 OEM carbine was a pretty good deal at $650.

I wasn't a huge fan of the Colt rifles when they went to all of the non-standard parts back in the 80's but the new ones are about as mil-spec as you will find. I also kind of think it's just sort of cool that the lower is marked "M4 Carbine".

Colt LE6920 OEM AR-15 Rifle 5.56mm 16in Black No Furniture

Yes, you'll have to get the furniture you want for the one in the link but chances are you'll end up swapping out the furniture on one of the other ones anyways.

Not trying to start an argument and I am sort of an AR snob, but buying a S&W or Ruger AR-15 is kind of like buying a Taurus or a Rossi revolver instead of a S&W. Sure they're cheaper and they look a lot like their more expensive counterparts but it just isn't the same.

 

[BigDog48]

I'm a believer in chrome lined barrels for ARs if you're going to shoot much. Furniture is changeable; barrels, not so easily.

I have a Bushmaster with a chrome lined barrel that has thousands of rounds through it...no problems at all.

By the way, I'm not a fan of steel cased ammo. Steel on steel in my bolts and chambers is a no-no. Just my opinion...shoot what you want, just practice!.

 

[cyphertext]

I know you asked for an opinion between the S&W and the Ruger but I've always thought the Colt 6920 OEM carbine was a pretty good deal at $650.

I wasn't a huge fan of the Colt rifles when they went to all of the non-standard parts back in the 80's but the new ones are about as mil-spec as you will find. I also kind of think it's just sort of cool that the lower is marked "M4 Carbine".

Colt LE6920 OEM AR-15 Rifle 5.56mm 16in Black No Furniture

Yes, you'll have to get the furniture you want for the one in the link but chances are you'll end up swapping out the furniture on one of the other ones anyways.

Not trying to start an argument and I am sort of an AR snob, but buying a S&W or Ruger AR-15 is kind of like buying a Taurus or a Rossi revolver instead of a S&W. Sure they're cheaper and they look a lot like their more expensive counterparts but it just isn't the same.

This really isn't a bad way to go, since you are talking about changing out furniture... and if the Colt plus furniture is out of your price range, there are a few other OEM rifles available.

 

[cyphertext]

I'm a believer in chrome lined barrels for ARs if you're going to shoot much. Furniture is changeable; barrels, not so easily.

I have a Bushmaster with a chrome lined barrel that has thousands of rounds through it...no problems at all.

By the way, I'm not a fan of steel cased ammo. Steel on steel in my bolts and chambers is a no-no. Just my opinion...shoot what you want, just practice!.

Salt nitriding (Melonite, Armornite, etc.) is showing to hold up quite well in civilian rifles.

As far as steel cased ammo, it's not the steel case that does any harm. Hornady makes steel cased ammo as well...

 

[digitaleagle12]

Now all you guys are getting me re-thinking everything again.

I'm in no real hurry to get a rifle, but the sale will be ending the end of next week and I have the itch.

I know there will always be another sale around the corner and with more an more competition, prices aren't likely to increase.

I heard chrome lined barrels are easier to clean but maybe at the expense of some accuracy? I also heard that you probably won't wear your barrel out with recreational shooting no matter what you have.

I know Colt is the standard most AR's are measured against but I heard their customer service isn't so good. I have no experience with them, but know they build a tank like rifle.

If I'm using it mainly for home defense and range use, I don't think I really need a $1000+ priced AR.

I'm still struggling with liking the Saint for a little more money and might wait to see if the price comes down on it later on.

Right now, I'm short on funding and might decide to save up for a while.

I also know you can always wait and with that philosophy, never have anything.

If I had to make a decision right now, which I don't, I would still buy the Sport II.

 

[JaxMike01]

I mainly went with the Sport ll with the thought that it will be my first AR and the one I can learn with. My plan all along is to eventually build one. But this will do for now.


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[Disabled1]

OP, after all that you have stated, I think the SAINT is in your future. I too like the BCM furniture. When the SAINT first came out I called BCM about ordering that same furniture for my AR-556. They stated it was not ready to sell to the public just yet. So, I added both a Black MOE stock and an MOE-SL handguard.

 

[C J]

I've heard some horror stories on Springfield's customer service which concern's me a bit.

If that's true it's certainly a lot different than the treatment I got from SA. I bought an .40 caliber XDm pistol from a LGS for a seriously discounted price because it had serious feeding issues. I figured SA would help me out even though I bought the pistol used and it was old enough to be out of warranty. And they did. SA fixed it and they did it for free. I only paid to ship it to them. I got it back in about a month too which was pretty amazing.

That is my carry pistol still after about 5 years. It shoots and handles great. It isn't as accurate as my Sig but few pistols are. It's plenty accurate enough. And it holds 16+1 rounds of .40. That's pretty hard to turn away from.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

My advice is to buy the rifle you want regardless of price. Purchasing an AR is not a money savings event, and the price of these rifles is typically dwarfed by the dollars spent on ammo, optics and extras.

Sounds like you want a mid length gas system. If so, make that a criteria for purchase and don't look back.

Happy AR hunting.

 

[C J]

the price of these rifles is typically dwarfed by the dollars spent on ammo, optics and extras.

I've spent as much as 8X more for ammo in just one year than the purchase price of the rifle I ran it through. That was just for one gun. I shot several others often that year also.

 

[digitaleagle12]

That's really good to hear! I have to say my experience with S&W wasn't the best.

The two products I bought new over the past six months both had problems from the factory. My .22 Compact had a defective barrel and a bad mag catch. My 15-22 had a problem with the extractor. My .22 compact was received at the S&W factory for two weeks with no notification to me. I called several times and was told they had no record of the gun. I was told that when they received it it would be at least 6-8 weeks to get it repaired. I then had to call and complain to a supervisor, who found the gun and agreed to get it back to me in 3 weeks.

My 15-22 was having constant FTF's and FTE's on all kinds of ammo. I was going to send it back but decided to try the Volquartsen extractor instead first. This completely solved the problem for me.

So, it really makes you wonder if S&W's QC is going down hill and that people are sending new guns back to them in droves do to all the defects.

If that's true it's certainly a lot different than the treatment I got from SA. I bought an .40 caliber XDm pistol from a LGS for a seriously discounted price because it had serious feeding issues. I figured SA would help me out even though I bought the pistol used and it was old enough to be out of warranty. And they did. SA fixed it and they did it for free. I only paid to ship it to them. I got it back in about a month too which was pretty amazing.

That is my carry pistol still after about 5 years. It shoots and handles great. It isn't as accurate as my Sig but few pistols are. It's plenty accurate enough. And it holds 16+1 rounds of .40. That's pretty hard to turn away from.

 

[digitaleagle12]

You may be right. Thanks

OP, after all that you have stated, I think the SAINT is in your future. I too like the BCM furniture. When the SAINT first came out I called BCM about ordering that same furniture for my AR-556. They stated it was not ready to sell to the public just yet. So, I added both a Black MOE stock and an MOE-SL handguard.

 

[digitaleagle12]

Yes, I guess they are bullet feeding devices eh? You are right that you will spend a lot more on the ammo than the gun in the long run, but you still get the bill you have to pay for the gun after you put it on your Credit Card. You buy the bullets in incremental charges, which doesn't hurt your wallet as much on each bill.

I've spent as much as 8X more for ammo in just one year than the purchase price of the rifle I ran it through. That was just for one gun. I shot several others often that year also.

 

[digitaleagle12]

Thanks for the advice. You are exactly right, but I keep getting in trouble with the wife (boss) on these purchases. I've been using the philosophy of purchasing first and asking forgiveness vs. permission.....LOL

I'm not sure I "need" a mid-length gas system, but I have heard they are a little smoother shooting and easier on the gun.

Overall, I really like how the Saint is configured right out of the box and it isn't a lot more money considering I'd want to upgrade either the Ruger or the Sport II.

Maybe I just got unlucky, but when S&W is taking more than 6-8 weeks right now to turn around repairs, it really makes me wonder.

I've got the itch to buy an AR, but in the end, I just might wait, save up some more bucks and purchase a better gun.

Right now I'm considering waiting until this Fall to buy one and hoping the Saint will drop some more in price.

What gives me pause on the S&W Sport II is their QC. I've purchased my first two S&W products over the past six months and both have had defects from the factory that have had to be repaired.

Maybe I just got unlucky, but it really makes me wonder when S&W is quoting 6-8 weeks now for warranty repairs.

I am now thinking about waiting until this Fall, saving up some money and purchasing a more expensive rifle. The Saint is certainly still under consideration and I may look at the Colt and other rifles as well.

I appreciate all the helpful advice, this is a great forum for new gun owners like me.

My advice is to buy the rifle you want regardless of price. Purchasing an AR is not a money savings event, and the price of these rifles is typically dwarfed by the dollars spent on ammo, optics and extras.

Sounds like you want a mid length gas system. If so, make that a criteria for purchase and don't look back.

Happy AR hunting.

 

[C J]

you have to pay for the gun after you put it on your Credit Card

That would be the reason I never buy anything on a credit card. Those things will eat you alive. I've missed out on some seriously good deals because I refused to do that but in the long run it worked out better.

 

[digitaleagle12]

You are right - but we always pay them off to avoid any interest charges. I also benefit from the 2% I get back from using the card. Right now, the boss in the home is putting the foot down on any new gun purchases.

Looks like I am going to have to wait until the funding looks better.

That would be the reason I never buy anything on a credit card. Those things will eat you alive. I've missed out on some seriously good deals because I refused to do that but in the long run it worked out better.

 

[Flash_80]

They will eat you up if you aren't responsible enough with them. Thats pretty much why they exist I believe. My family has paid nearly every expense for the last 3 years on some kind of rewards card, but I'm in charge of expenses and I monitor the balance daily and pay it off during the week online to stay in control of the budget. Almost like a check register that I'm not having to physically write down.

With the rewards junk, we had a Disney card that we ended up with $1050 that we used on all expenses on a Disney trip last spring. I paid $4 out of my own pocket the entire week towards basically any of the overpriced junk you could get there for a family of 5. Food, drinks, souveneirs, whatever. Made that ridiculous vacation affordable as everything at Disney is ludicrous expensive.

After that I got a Cabelas card and 2 weeks ago put $550 towards a Browning Hi Power that also gained back an additional $260 in Cabelas points on that purchase during a special deal (5X club points at 5%= 25% points gained).

Its just whether or not that kind of thing is for someone or not. I'm a meticulous freak on the budget so it works out for me.

 

[digitaleagle12]

I think it is easy to spend more when you have a CC as you can justify buying something "now" instead of waiting for it. However, you still have to pay it in 30 days or less, or you are going to spend a lot more for what you just bought.

We use reward cards to buy just about everything, but always budget to pay them off when they are due to avoid the interest.

For example: I have an AE Blue Rewards card that pays me 6% for every purchase at grocery stores and 3% at gas stations and department stores. That really adds up. Yes, I have to pay $75.00 a year for the card, but I get more than $400 back. I have another card that pays 2% for everything else I buy.

Even so, I"ll bet most people spend more using credit cards than they would if they paid cash. They can be very dangerous if you aren't disciplined.

As much as I would like to drop $750+ on an AR-15, I know I can't afford it right now and will wait.

It's interesting to me that gun merchants don't seem to offer 90 day same as cash financing or 12 months with free interest offers. If they did, I'd probably be buying that new gun right now.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The Lounge is better suited to general discussion about credit cards and grocery store purchase reward points.

Since the OP has made his decision to wait for another time... we'll move long.