M&P upgrade suggestions

[RH45]

After placing the scale at the very bottom of the trigger I was able to achieve a consistent 5.5 lbs which is what apex advertised. Wish I would have went with the competition kit for a lighter trigger pull

I've been a competition shooter, since the 90s and I can't shoot a heavy triggered pistol well. My gen 1 M&P pro has the competition trigger kit and comes in about 32 oz, and the reset is short, but vague. I had a 2.0 that I set up for carry optics division, but sold to a friend who wanted it. I THINK I had to use a 45 seat, in it, even though it was 9mm, but if I remember correctly, I had to order sear return springs. The sear and the springs make all the difference. I think I double ordered the springs. If you want to try some, measure the size of yours. P.M. me, if you're interested.
A previous post, pretty much covered the 1911.

 

[jmoose]

I've been a competition shooter, since the 90s and I can't shoot a heavy triggered pistol well. My gen 1 M&P pro has the competition trigger kit and comes in about 32 oz, and the reset is short, but vague. I had a 2.0 that I set up for carry optics division, but sold to a friend who wanted it. I THINK I had to use a 45 seat, in it, even though it was 9mm, but if I remember correctly, I had to order sear return springs. The sear and the springs make all the difference. I think I double ordered the springs. If you want to try some, measure the size of yours. P.M. me, if you're interested.
A previous post, pretty much covered the 1911.

That would be awesome if you think it would work. I installed the Apex 100-126 action enhancement kit which included these items.
It also lists that it reduces the trigger pre travel by 20% and if you look at the video I posted above that is clearly not the case. I know every gun is different but was really hoping for better results.

 

[hardluk1]

After placing the scale at the very bottom of the trigger I was able to achieve a consistent 5.5 lbs which is what apex advertised. Wish I would have went with the competition kit for a lighter trigger pull

Well that could be called part of the learning curve ! I know I could get you a pound lower and stay safe but unless your in western NC mountains your out of luck . Look at the connector on your pistol . Not the part that rubs against the striker block is not smoothly rounded over but has 3 sides to it . If you see that you could stone off some of the point that woulf first make contact with the striker block. Round it over some . Then polish it smooth . That can reduce the pull weight and smooth the trigger pull . I did just this to my wifes first , a m&p9c she kept as a road trip big city CC for a years and I ended up with a smooth 4lb 8 to 10oz trigger pull . Nothing else was done . Still had the old style stock trigger and all stock parts .

If you use the stock striker spring and the stock trigger return spring you will have a lighter trigger pull maybe in the4lb range too . Keep the other apex parts in it .

Try to use your trigger pull gauge where the center of your trigger finger would rest on the trigger aas using those gauges in the wrong pull spot can cause pull weight to vari . Rack the slide and hold the pistol tight to a bench then try pulling the trigger but repeat 10 times for an average pull weight . Range time so you can get to know your pistol well with a few hundred rounds can help .

 

[jmoose]

Well that could be called part of the learning curve ! I know I could get you a pound lower and stay safe but unless your in western NC mountains your out of luck . Look at the connector on your pistol . Not the part that rubs against the striker block is not smoothly rounded over but has 3 sides to it . If you see that you could stone off some of the point that woulf first make contact with the striker block. Round it over some . Then polish it smooth . That can reduce the pull weight and smooth the trigger pull . I did just this to my wifes first , a m&p9c she kept as a road trip big city CC for a years and I ended up with a smooth 4lb 8 to 10oz trigger pull . Nothing else was done . Still had the old style stock trigger and all stock parts .

If you use the stock striker spring and the stock trigger return spring you will have a lighter trigger pull maybe in the4lb range too . Keep the other apex parts in it .

Try to use your trigger pull gauge where the center of your trigger finger would rest on the trigger aas using those gauges in the wrong pull spot can cause pull weight to vari . Rack the slide and hold the pistol tight to a bench then try pulling the trigger but repeat 10 times for an average pull weight . Range time so you can get to know your pistol well with a few hundred rounds can help .

Okay I'm going to try it out at the range and see how I like it before making any more modifications. I originally put the trigger scale right where the middle of my finger would rest and that's where I was getting the 8 lb trigger reading from. The only way I can get it to 5.5 lb is to pull from the very bottom of the trigger

 

[scottR68]

Welcome to the forum. I had the same issue and couldn't stand all the travel before the break. You can adjust the trigger bar loop to eliminate the travel.
Adjustments should be made in small increments. This method will also work on stock trigger configurations. I used a sparkplug gapping tool and feeler gauges to perform the work.
Following all safety measures. Remove the slide, and actuate the trigger slowly.
Watch closely as to when the loop contacts the sear.
Increasing the loop radius reduces the travel and decreasing the loop adds travel.
Hope this helps

I'll secondly thank you for this. The initial take up is THE one thing I don't like about the PC trigger, that comes in the 2.0 Comp Carry Comp. Mine has no "grittiness" as some have reported, has a clean crisp break. Installing a trigger assembly is above my pay grade, and I live at least 100 miles from the nearest "competent" gunsmith in any direction that I know of.

This is my EDC, and other than the few usable upgrades I've made, are all but one external (EB 13lb Recoil Spring and guide rod), I'd like to keep everything else internally, as is. Thanks again!

 

[Saudade]

Apex published an article about mixing/matching Apex and OEM springs to achieve different trigger pull weights.

The weights listed are approximate (YMMV) but it gives you an idea on how to get a lighter/heavier trigger if you're willing to do some trial and error.

https://www.apextactical.com/blog/gun-maintainence-tips/dial-in-your-m2-0-flatty

 

[jmoose]

Apex published an article about mixing/matching Apex and OEM springs to achieve different trigger pull weights.

The weights listed are approximate (YMMV) but it gives you an idea on how to get a lighter/heavier trigger if you're willing to do some trial and error.

https://www.apextactical.com/blog/gun-maintainence-tips/dial-in-your-m2-0-flatty

Thank you for this, this is very helpful!

 

[jmoose]

Well after my son's baseball game tonight I took the m&P apart again and install the factory Sear spring and the factory trigger return spring. I am getting a consistent 4 lb of trigger pull. It feels absolutely perfect! Thank you guys for all the help I greatly appreciate it. Can't wait to get to the range and try it out

 

[jmoose]

Well that could be called part of the learning curve ! I know I could get you a pound lower and stay safe but unless your in western NC mountains your out of luck . Look at the connector on your pistol . Not the part that rubs against the striker block is not smoothly rounded over but has 3 sides to it . If you see that you could stone off some of the point that woulf first make contact with the striker block. Round it over some . Then polish it smooth . That can reduce the pull weight and smooth the trigger pull . I did just this to my wifes first , a m&p9c she kept as a road trip big city CC for a years and I ended up with a smooth 4lb 8 to 10oz trigger pull . Nothing else was done . Still had the old style stock trigger and all stock parts .

If you use the stock striker spring and the stock trigger return spring you will have a lighter trigger pull maybe in the4lb range too . Keep the other apex parts in it .

Try to use your trigger pull gauge where the center of your trigger finger would rest on the trigger aas using those gauges in the wrong pull spot can cause pull weight to vari . Rack the slide and hold the pistol tight to a bench then try pulling the trigger but repeat 10 times for an average pull weight . Range time so you can get to know your pistol well with a few hundred rounds can help .

Hardluk I am having a difficult time figuring out which part you are saying to polish to reduce the trigger pre travel. Do you happen to have a picture of the part you are referring to?

 

[hardluk1]

Hardluk I am having a difficult time figuring out which part you are saying to polish to reduce the trigger pre travel. Do you happen to have a picture of the part you are referring to?

No reducing the pretravel . Thats what keeps a striker fired pistol safe . Just try to learn to limit your finger travel to follow the reset for target shooting and stop worrying about the take up or pre travel for defensive drills . Have you used a shotgun for skeet / trap or hunted with a shotgun . That the trigger pull style you want to use for a defensive CC handgun. Pull thru the trigger , get off the trigger , repeat .

Glad you have a better trigger break weight now .

 

[hardluk1]

Hardluk I am having a difficult time figuring out which part you are saying to polish to reduce the trigger pre travel. Do you happen to have a picture of the part you are referring to?

If your trigger pull is smooth now and the trigger is light enough don't worry about working on the connector . Easy to make a light trigger to light or hurt the function of the safety features . Beside I barely get along with a computer . Marking photos cover where to file and polish and send are beyond my ability !

 

[jmoose]

No reducing the pretravel . Thats what keeps a striker fired pistol safe . Just try to learn to limit your finger travel to follow the reset for target shooting and stop worrying about the take up or pre travel for defensive drills . Have you used a shotgun for skeet / trap or hunted with a shotgun . That the trigger pull style you want to use for a defensive CC handgun. Pull thru the trigger , get off the trigger , repeat .

Glad you have a better trigger break weight now .

Oh ok that makes sense, thanks again for all the advice, trigger is so much better!

 

[Law-dog]

Trigger kit.
Apex is most popular…
I'm a fan of overwatch precision.

And the other side of the coin is if it's a carry pistol, leave it stock.

I prefer a nice, crisp, 3.5 to 4lb trigger with a good feel, good reset, good break.

You'll get varying answers.

You never know if it is an upgrade until the factory gun has run a bunch of ammo, say 500 rounds without a glitch, then you know the gun fits the design specs and you have a blue print. Only then do you have a clue if some alleged upgrade is actually an upgrade.

For example, you take new gun with a 5 pound trigger pull and buy a kit to make it a 4 pound trigger pull. Did you upgrade? You have no clue until that gun is broken in.

Second, with trigger pulls there is a massive amount of hype perhaps more so that any other gun part. If you change the pull from 5 pounds to 4 pounds, are you good enough of a shooter to actually prove that your shooting is better? Unless a factory trigger does not break in at say 500 rounds, you may just be wasting money. You can NEVER just feel a trigger and know it will improve shooting. What you feel is lesser pressure but that does not mean more accurasy. Just saying. Triggers matter in things like ARs, handguns not so much.

They only matter on the range, not in your living room.

 

[hardluk1]

Law-Dog is right in that a new pistol should be cleaned checked and lubed then fire ,, for me fire 400 rounds with a few different loads , HP included then make some choice on what to do . That tends to happen with in 24 hours for me .

Triggers do matter regardless of the type of firearm. One reason I do not carry a a DA SA handgun .

 

[jmoose]

Law-Dog is right in that a new pistol should be cleaned checked and lubed then fire ,, for me fire 400 rounds with a few different loads , HP included then make some choice on what to do . That tends to happen with in 24 hours for me .

Triggers do matter regardless of the type of firearm. One reason I do not carry a a DA SA handgun .

Thanks for the info guys. I have owned this m&p for about 6-7 years and have definitely fired more than 400 rounds through it. I have never liked the trigger
On edit: trigger lives matter ( TLM)

 

[dajogejr]

You never know if it is an upgrade until the factory gun has run a bunch of ammo, say 500 rounds without a glitch, then you know the gun fits the design specs and you have a blue print. Only then do you have a clue if some alleged upgrade is actually an upgrade.

For example, you take new gun with a 5 pound trigger pull and buy a kit to make it a 4 pound trigger pull. Did you upgrade? You have no clue until that gun is broken in.

Second, with trigger pulls there is a massive amount of hype perhaps more so that any other gun part. If you change the pull from 5 pounds to 4 pounds, are you good enough of a shooter to actually prove that your shooting is better? Unless a factory trigger does not break in at say 500 rounds, you may just be wasting money. You can NEVER just feel a trigger and know it will improve shooting. What you feel is lesser pressure but that does not mean more accurasy. Just saying. Triggers matter in things like ARs, handguns not so much.

They only matter on the range, not in your living room.

Your opinion, certainly welcome to it.
Trigger weight is only one reason I change them out early. Take up, break, reset are others.
Yes, break can clean up/smooth out with use. 100% agree. Take up and reset do not.
Am I a comp level shooter? No. Can I shoot more accurately with a lighter pull and cleaner break/reset?
Yes.
I take the time to clean up factory trigger contact points, typically striker, trigger bar, sear, striker block, etc. Which, I'd agree, can smooth in/break in with time.

I'd argue triggers in handguns make a bigger difference in pistols than they do ARs/rifles.
Why?
With a Rifle you have 3-4 touch points (hands separated, shoulder, cheek weld).
Pistol, two, both hands, over the top of each other.

Sight picture… a few inches, vs… more.
But I spend a lot of time shooting and practicing. I know what I like, I know what I shoot well.
Certainly, I can't speak for everyone else. However, neither can you.
As you said, they do only matter on the range, I do agree 100% there.
I'd also add, not until I get through 500 rounds through 2-3 mags with all different ammo, including at least 50 to 100 rounds of actual self defense rounds, without any malfunctions, do I put a pistol into my carry rotation.

 

[jmoose]

Well I got out to the range today to try out the new trigger kit and I can say I absolutely love it. Easier to shoot and grouping was much better than with factory trigger. I really like the Apex trigger with the factory springs for a lighter trigger pull. This may not be for everyone but it definitely works for me. Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all of the advice. Next up, refinishing the fore end and buttstock on my 1947 39a. Should be fun, thanks again

 

[dajogejr]

Did you end up with a polymer or aluminum shoe? In my "wife's" 2.0 carry comp, I went with a polymer.
I simply couldn't get it how we both like it.
I swapped it for a Overwatch…
MAKE SURE you keep the old spare parts jmoose. If you ever remove that Apex, you'll have to replace that sear arm with factory, it only works on Apex triggers.. don't ask how I know

i wonder if the Aluminum would've fared better… oh well. . Glad you like it.
To each is own.
Another member on here uses a honing steel to clean up trigger bar/sear areas of contact for smoother pull/break. I used Flitz and a dremel/felt tip…. Messy, but satisfying . Good luck!!

 

[jmoose]

Did you end up with a polymer or aluminum shoe? In my "wife's" 2.0 carry comp, I went with a polymer.
I simply couldn't get it how we both like it.
I swapped it for a Overwatch…
MAKE SURE you keep the old spare parts jmoose. If you ever remove that Apex, you'll have to replace that sear arm with factory, it only works on Apex triggers.. don't ask how I know

i wonder if the Aluminum would've fared better… oh well. . Glad you like it.
To each is own.
Another member on here uses a honing steel to clean up trigger bar/sear areas of contact for smoother pull/break. I used Flitz and a dremel/felt tip…. Messy, but satisfying . Good luck!!

I just got the polymer trigger, actually after I ordered it I saw some people online saying they had better luck with the Palmer than the aluminum but that is really all I know. Changing the trigger return spring and the sear plunger spring back to factory made a world of difference so not sure if you tried that when you installed the Apex. You can also just change one spring or the other depending on how you want your trigger pull. When you said you couldn't get it to where you like it, what was the issue you were having?

 

[dajogejr]

I just got the polymer trigger, actually after I ordered it I saw some people online saying they had better luck with the Palmer than the aluminum but that is really all I know. Changing the trigger return spring and the sear plunger spring back to factory made a world of difference so not sure if you tried that when you installed the Apex. You can also just change one spring or the other depending on how you want your trigger pull. When you said you couldn't get it to where you like it, what was the issue you were having?

I literally tried every spring they gave in the packet, every combination.
I used their sheet for different weights… none of them were close.
I like a nice 3.5 to 4lb trigger on striker fired, carry pistols.
The only way I could get it sub 4lbs was with a lighter return spring. It wouldn't reliably return/reset with that in. Stock return would get it reliable, but then the weight upped to over 4.5lbs.

With the 10 degree striker and spring combos used, I should have had sub 3lb.
I even removed it all, checked, verified, made sure everything was installed correctly, etc. Second guessing myself. Same.

Removed it, put a Overwatch in, right off the bat, just a tick over 3.5 lbs (3lb, 10 or 11oz if I recall correctly)…once I remembered to use the stock sear arm (wouldn't fire with the Overwatch kit and Apex sear arm…again glad I save label old parts).

Maybe I would've had better luck with the aluminum shoe… and I've used Apex kits in several past M&P with very good results.

Even at sub 4lbs, if felt sluggish, mushy…just wasn't what I was used to from Apex.

 

[jmoose]

I literally tried every spring they gave in the packet, every combination.
I used their sheet for different weights… none of them were close.
I like a nice 3.5 to 4lb trigger on striker fired, carry pistols.
The only way I could get it sub 4lbs was with a lighter return spring. It wouldn't reliably return/reset with that in. Stock return would get it reliable, but then the weight upped to over 4.5lbs.

With the 10 degree striker and spring combos used, I should have had sub 3lb.
I even removed it all, checked, verified, made sure everything was installed correctly, etc. Second guessing myself. Same.

Removed it, put a Overwatch in, right off the bat, just a tick over 3.5 lbs (3lb, 10 or 11oz if I recall correctly)…once I remembered to use the stock sear arm (wouldn't fire with the Overwatch kit and Apex sear arm…again glad I save label old parts).

Maybe I would've had better luck with the aluminum shoe… and I've used Apex kits in several past M&P with very good results.

Even at sub 4lbs, if felt sluggish, mushy…just wasn't what I was used to from Apex.

Maybe I misunderstood you but it Sounds like you only put one of the factory springs back in. I didn't have a nice light trigger pull until I put both of the factory springs back in with the Apex kit. I used the action enhancement kit 100-126. Being that you already put another brand in I doubt you will try this out but just figured I would let you know. My accuracy improved greatly with this new kit, I couldn't be more pleased

 

[dajogejr]

Maybe I misunderstood you but it Sounds like you only put one of the factory springs back in. I didn't have a nice light trigger pull until I put both of the factory springs back in with the Apex kit. I used the action enhancement kit 100-126. Being that you already put another brand in I doubt you will try this out but just figured I would let you know. My accuracy improved greatly with this new kit, I couldn't be more pleased

All good. I tried all spring combos!
I started with what should have given me roughly a 3.6lb trigger per Apex spring chart. It made it heavier than factory. Then I worked my way towards the left of the sheet using their spring combos they recommended. Using the combo they said to use for a 2.75lb trigger barely got me sub 4lb.
I didn't WANT 2.75…but with the combo I ended with from Apex, just under 4 is where it landed.
And it wasn't a good sweep, break, reset.

I've used the Apex kits in 5 previous S&W MP series I've previously had, I'm familiar with their stuff.

I sold the kit to a friend who was looking to swap out a curved for a flat face trigger, wasn't as concerned with trigger weight, he's happy

 

[jmoose]

All good. I tried all spring combos!
I started with what should have given me roughly a 3.6lb trigger per Apex spring chart. It made it heavier than factory. Then I worked my way towards the left of the sheet using their spring combos they recommended. Using the combo they said to use for a 2.75lb trigger barely got me sub 4lb.
I didn't WANT 2.75…but with the combo I ended with from Apex, just under 4 is where it landed.
And it wasn't a good sweep, break, reset.

I've used the Apex kits in 5 previous S&W MP series I've previously had, I'm familiar with their stuff.

I sold the kit to a friend who was looking to swap out a curved for a flat face trigger, wasn't as concerned with trigger weight, he's happy

It sounds like you did your due diligence and unfortunately it didn't work out. I am getting a consistent 3.5 lb trigger pull so not sure if that is what you were after or not. Having tried the OverWatch kit do you think that you will continue using those kits moving forward or would you try Apex again? I always like to explore different options

 

[dajogejr]

Overwatch from here on out. Current Shield Plus Comp, Current 2.0 carry comp, on the Echelon 4.0c I sold, and in two buddies MPs…
Design, shape, feel of the trigger and safety blade. NP3 Coating on trigger bar, sear, and plunger safety…

Just pure personal preference. I used Apex in several pistols.. I just like Overwatch currently.

Apex makes a fine trigger kit, great support, no shade to throw on them. Just found something I like better!

 

[jmoose]

Overwatch from here on out. Current Shield Plus Comp, Current 2.0 carry comp, on the Echelon 4.0c I sold, and in two buddies MPs…
Design, shape, feel of the trigger and safety blade. NP3 Coating on trigger bar, sear, and plunger safety…

Just pure personal preference. I used Apex in several pistols.. I just like Overwatch currently.

Apex makes a fine trigger kit, great support, no shade to throw on them. Just found something I like better!

Darn I wish I would have known about the OverWatch kit. Oh well there's always the next one